Denorx7

ok I'm gonna buy the water injection kit next week but I'm not sure if I need a remap or not,I have hks pro f con ecu but is hard to find a tuner in UK to remap ,so is possible to fit it straight on and adjust the pressure switch manual .

Thanks.

RENESISFD

iTrader: (13)

You do not need a re-map. Most people use it as a safe guard.

Denorx7

Ok cool that's save me a lot of money then ,people said it's only keep the temp down and clean throttle and other things.can I fit the nozzle in the elbow where it bend 90 degree ...

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

As RenesisFD mentioned, you won't need a re-tune. However, if you are spraying water only, you will see a slight reduction in power. On the other hand, if you utilize 50/50 water meth you will see a slight bump in power from the decreased air intake temperature. Water alone will not reduce intake temps, but it will suppress knock. The methanol is what cools the temps and the mixture is ideally the best of both worlds.

A 300cc nozzle will do fine to start with. Also, with AI, you may want to consider a Twin Power or the AEM coils. It is a little more demanding on the ignition and our cars are known for being a little lacking as you approach mid 300hp and above.

Denorx7

My car has hks twin power ignition ,so I need to connect the pump wire to it yea?
And I will put 50/50 mix and see how it goes.also I'm using my window washer Bottle and a tank because it's already mounted .

ALPSTA

iTrader: (3)

So even if we don't tune for it 50/50 will increase power?

Montego

iTrader: (1)

Yeah from what I have seen H2O can cause up to a 20 RWHP loss. In which many people make up by runing higher boost.

But I am unsure regarding 50/50. I recall reading somewhere that the 50/50 mix causes 0.5 afr increase in richness. So the car is lower in power due to the tune being slightly off. <---Can you (or anyone who knows) confirm if that information is correct?

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Yes, the mixture will be a little richer from the alcohol. However, the greatly reduced intake temps do make up for the loss. The "gain" is very dependent on the other variables in the system, but there will be a slight bump in power from 50/50 alone.

Denorx7

So if I fit the kit I loss a bit of power not incress ,but. Get low temp instead but I don't want to lose power in that case.

Denorx7

Check out my hot start issues compression test result

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

No No No.

The Twin Power operates exclusively with the ignition circuit alone. Once connected, it is left alone to perform its job. However, to help keep things fresh I do recommend the following:

New plugs
New Wires
Relocate coils
New Leading Coil ($150 new from Ray Crowe. The leading is the workhorse of the system and they often fade from years of use and exposure to the heat and being mounted under the UIM)

You are using two tanks? Are you setting it up in a siphoning configuration? I recommend using one tank. Keeping the system simplified will be advantageous. Many use the washer tank and there is nothing wrong with that. If you use it, definitely clean it thoroughly to ensure no particles will cause a blockage. Ultimately, it would be best to purchase a new washer tank if you go this route.

Many of the basic concepts of AI are covered in the Auxiliary Injection section of the forum. Though you aren't "tuning up" for it currently, you still want to ensure a trouble free system that you install properly the first time. And don't worry, it's only a matter of time before you want 20+psi

ALPSTA

iTrader: (3)

That's why I was asking because my tuner said if I don't tune for it I will lose power be it water or 50/50.

He was probably being modest with numbers so I'm neiter hyped up nor unimpressed but gave a rough estimate of 5% loss/gain in hp for AI without tuning and tuning for AI.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Run 300cc of 50/50 water meth and you won't lose power. You will see a slight increase. As mentioned, how much of an increase will depend on the other variables in the turbo system (mods, boost, compression, etc.)

Much of this is going to depend on how conservative or aggressive your current tune is and how much boost you are running. Most tuners keep things conservative for their customers. Running mid to high 11's AFR on pump gas. However, once you start getting past the levels that pump can can provide, it isn't uncommon to see 10.5-11:1. Realistically, meth is a fuel, and it WILL cause a drop in your AFR's. The real variant is what AFR's you are currently running and how much meth you are adding.

This is why I recommend 300cc. It's a perfect safety net and it isn't introducing an overly large amount of fuel to the system. Larger nozzles and more aggressive setups can drop AFR's a full point. You have to consider all parts here.

To the OP, give it a go and see how it feels. Monitoring AFR's, EGT's, and AIT's will greatly help you see how the AI is affecting the system. In any case, AI is a magical thing. It is hands down the best mod you can perform for a turbo rotary.

Denorx7

I already chanced new plugs and wire and I have to buy the new ignition next ,whats ray crew is a company or website to buy from please?

Reno_NVFD

iTrader: (2)

Ray Crowe is THE parts guy at Malloy Mazda. He is awesome and knows how to get you the parts you need. His number is (888) 533-3400

Also take a look at Dale Clarks AI install write up.

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/daleclarks-aem-water-meth-install-woo-960157/page2/

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Your in the UK so there not be an advantage buying from Ray. A new leading coil can be sourced at a dealership or online.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

thanks for your input XLR8

Denorx7

Ok any idea what's the part number or what's it called ?

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

There's some correct answers and some incorrect answers in here. Hopefully no one takes this the wrong way but here's my experience; not to be confused with an opinion.

1) Will WI reduce intake temps?

WI will cool intake temps but not a substantial about like an alcohol. Surely WI will only drop your pre-combustion temps up to a point, once your blow 100c then the waters no longer going to evaporate, no evaporation no cooling effect. The way i see it is WI is by far more useful in the rotary combustion chamber, as temp's here are over 1000c evaporation is a given, this in turn cools inside the chamber reducing those hot spots that can often cause knock. To my mind that's really the major benefit of WI, not reducing intake temps.

2) Will WI reduce power?

Well.... Yes and no. If you run it as the op would with no map changes then YES! Yes, it will reduce temps. If you tune like me or you know someone that actually knows how to tune then NO. I say no as in my experience I've found that with WI I have been able to advance my timing by up 6 degrees over peak torque.

Now, just that I'm saying this do not just go ad arbitrary timing to you map if you're running water injection! This process of adding timing is only going to work well for someone that has consistent air temperatures. If you air temp correction isn't near instant or at low variance you might find yourself knocking on the wrong door.

There's more to all of this but I just wanted to clarify these to right now.

Denorx7

Ok so let's clarify something because im getting confused now.
WI with no remap reduce power and low temp.
WI with remap no power reduce and low temp of course .
Is that right ?

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

I don't think you are disagreeing with what has already been stated, nor do I think what has been stated is inaccurate. "Water only" injection will reduce power without modification to a map that otherwise isn't setup for it. The reduction of intake temps is negligible. Waters greatest benefit lies in the combustion chamber and knock suppression, as you said.

However, the addition of methanol or "50/50" will gain back that subsequent loss. I have personally seen a 200cc nozzle of 50/50 make an otherwise stock car a bit more peppy. Yes, we are adding water, but we are also GREATLY reducing intake temps by adding methanol. The AFR's will be a little richer but the intake temps are also much cooler. As I mentioned, it depends on what spectrum of the scale you are on. If the tune is already very conservative, you could begin to see an overly rich conditions. But with a smaller nozzle, this should be less likely.

Denorx7

I still don't get it my car modified with 450bh ATM at 0.9 bar hks pro f con ecu,twin power ,high capacity sard fuel pump,850cc injectors all round,366 Borg warner with 88 a/r ,4 inch intercooler,koyko rardatior ,greedy down pipe 3.5 inch ,cast turbo manifold and much more
So if I just fit the kit now what's goon happen to my performance so far....

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

water only injection doesn't need remapping but it is more picky with rich mixtures, generally you need to run a little on the lean side to prevent ignition breakup or add an ignition amp to bump up your ignition voltage.

water+methanol/methanol does require remapping if the injector is large enough to start throwing off your AFRs.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Exactly. No matter the form of AI, if you aren't retuning the car than you should keep things light. 500+cc of any mixture introduced to the system will drop power. BUT, if you keep the nozzle small and use 50/50, you will see a slight bump without changing the tune.

The key is to experiment with nozzle sizes. Start with a 300cc and move down. There is a sweet spot where the alcohol and water are mostly evaporated (alcohol going first of course) and the effects on your AFR's are minimal. A few points AFR will not hurt anything, and the 30-50 deg cooler intake temps will make all the difference.

Shaman

Adding water will lower your EGTs. It shouldn't affect your AFRs. Adding methanol will lower your IATs. It will also affect your AFRs. Add a WI kit, will make your car slower, unless your car already had a problem that made it down on power, that the water/meth kit cured. Without tuning, it will keep things safer, so it's called a safety net. Track days, hot days, long pulls, etc. If you want more power, then you increase the flow and tune for it. If you tune for it, then you need to make sure that it works, because if it stops working for any reason, then you may lose the engine. I don't know if the 2D has a failsafe built in. You will have to look into it.