BNR turbos?
02-22-08, 09:03 AM
#51
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...iley+solenoids
Ane here's the info he gave me:
Jeff, great question. My apologies for the delay in response, but I've been on vacation for Christmas for the last couple of weeks.
I'll shoot completely straight with you. As a rough estimate, it costs about $75 per solenoid (plus some additional costs). So if we add that up for a 10 or 12 solenoid, we can easily approach $750-1000 really quickly. In my personal opinion, that just isn't worth it to most customers for replacing what is mostly non-turbo related solenoids. I have built one full system such as this, and I can definitely do it if you want me to. But, I think it may be a little overkill.
As an alternative, what I generally recommend for customers such as yourself is a hybrid-style setup. Basically, what we do is upgrade the 4 essential turbo-control related solenoids (TCA-pressure, TCA-vacuum, CCA, and CRV). These will be mounted along the passenger fender as I've shown in several posts. The remainder of the solenoids (relating to emissions and misc stuff) can remain stock, and in the stock location. This type of system effectively upgrades the solenoids that you are most concerned with (the turbo related ones), without depleting every last penny from your bank account.
A 4-solenoid system such as this will run $310, which includes shipping anywhere in the 48 states. I also include a full set of instructions, and a vacuum diagram on how to properly hook everything up.
Time to build the 4-solenoid system is approximately 3-4 weeks, as many components are built-to order. If you wanted to do a full 10 solenoid system, it would take slightly longer (maybe another week, or possibly two).
Please let me know if you still have any questions.
-Rob Bailey
Axiom Autosports Engineering
axiomatuosports@gmail.com
Ane here's the info he gave me:
Jeff, great question. My apologies for the delay in response, but I've been on vacation for Christmas for the last couple of weeks.
I'll shoot completely straight with you. As a rough estimate, it costs about $75 per solenoid (plus some additional costs). So if we add that up for a 10 or 12 solenoid, we can easily approach $750-1000 really quickly. In my personal opinion, that just isn't worth it to most customers for replacing what is mostly non-turbo related solenoids. I have built one full system such as this, and I can definitely do it if you want me to. But, I think it may be a little overkill.
As an alternative, what I generally recommend for customers such as yourself is a hybrid-style setup. Basically, what we do is upgrade the 4 essential turbo-control related solenoids (TCA-pressure, TCA-vacuum, CCA, and CRV). These will be mounted along the passenger fender as I've shown in several posts. The remainder of the solenoids (relating to emissions and misc stuff) can remain stock, and in the stock location. This type of system effectively upgrades the solenoids that you are most concerned with (the turbo related ones), without depleting every last penny from your bank account.
A 4-solenoid system such as this will run $310, which includes shipping anywhere in the 48 states. I also include a full set of instructions, and a vacuum diagram on how to properly hook everything up.
Time to build the 4-solenoid system is approximately 3-4 weeks, as many components are built-to order. If you wanted to do a full 10 solenoid system, it would take slightly longer (maybe another week, or possibly two).
Please let me know if you still have any questions.
-Rob Bailey
Axiom Autosports Engineering
axiomatuosports@gmail.com
02-22-08, 11:10 AM
#53
True, but what is important is getting the most out of the twin setup while still having a smooth transaction is the goal that is hard as hell to accomplish. That is where the axiom solenoids and the solenoids you mentioned can change the game. Now we have some parts that can hopefully give us a better chance at controlling transaction while pumping out some good power.
02-22-08, 11:31 AM
#54
Now, aftermarket solenoids may be able to handle this better, however no one has tried to prove it. But, it is not BS that no one has been able to achieve the exact same power with the stock sequential system as those who have ditched it. Those using BNR's and the older M2's have only achieved around 380 rwhp with the stock sequential system.
02-22-08, 01:19 PM
#55
FYI. I'm running Rob Bailey's 4 solenoid set with BNR Stage 3 (Profec B, type S EBC). All other solenoids (except WG and PS) still stock and operational. It's a great setup. One side benefit of the solenoid kit is that when you do have issues (like i did after a rebuild before working out all the kinks) it is sooo easy to tie into lines, etc. and troubleshoot the whole sequential system.
One mod I made to the solenoid kit (I think I recommended this to Rob too) is I put a single, 8 wire plug in the electrical line so you can very simply unplug and remove the entire solenoid rack at any time without touching the UIM!
--Jeff
One mod I made to the solenoid kit (I think I recommended this to Rob too) is I put a single, 8 wire plug in the electrical line so you can very simply unplug and remove the entire solenoid rack at any time without touching the UIM!
--Jeff
02-22-08, 01:57 PM
#59
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exactly if it were easier to do.. id jump all over it! it kinda be a no brainer for me.. even 380 isnt anything to shake a stick at but if its the best known.. it by itself is a feat!
02-22-08, 02:01 PM
#60
IMO, no one should expect or hope for more than around 365rwhp using the sequential system. If people want/need more than that today, non-seq or single is the way to go. I would like to see these non-Mazda solenoids tested to see if they will allow the sequential system to perform at the higher boost levels, but we'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
02-22-08, 02:15 PM
#62
You loose that "instant power" of the sequential system in the lower rpms, but you gain some midrange power (i.e. during the transition which won't exist anymore). It basically just "shifts" the power band a little. Moves it from the lower rpms to the middle rpms.
02-22-08, 02:32 PM
#66
You need to look at more than just what PSI a turbo is producing at a given rpm. You need to look at a dyno and see what power the turbo is making at given rpms. That will give you a better idea of what the turbo is doing.
02-22-08, 02:58 PM
#69
Keep in mind, it's apples to oranges when looking at the boost pattern of a single turbo. i.e. a single generating 6 PSI at say 3000 rpms isn't necessarily a bad thing. That 6 PSI is NOT going to be the same power that 6 PSI on the stock twins bring. While the PSI is the same, the CFM generated by the two are completely different.
You need to look at more than just what PSI a turbo is producing at a given rpm. You need to look at a dyno and see what power the turbo is making at given rpms. That will give you a better idea of what the turbo is doing.
You need to look at more than just what PSI a turbo is producing at a given rpm. You need to look at a dyno and see what power the turbo is making at given rpms. That will give you a better idea of what the turbo is doing.
02-22-08, 03:45 PM
#72
There was a post I read not more than two months ago with someone who made i think around 440+ with a set of BNR turbos sequentially. Ill try to find the thread. There was another memeber I read making around 380 with stock twins at 17lbs and been running it like that for more than a year.
Chris
Chris
02-22-08, 03:53 PM
#74
There was a post I read not more than two months ago with someone who made i think around 440+ with a set of BNR turbos sequentially. Ill try to find the thread. There was another memeber I read making around 380 with stock twins at 17lbs and been running it like that for more than a year.
Chris
Chris
02-22-08, 04:12 PM
#75
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Your very helpfull on this forum, but what your showing is that you don't understand how the system works if you disagree with the statment I made.
Providing that the stock TC solenoids work, that the check valves to the vac and boost chambers are good, and that there are no leaks in the system. The stock TC solenoids are going to be able open the TC gate to 100%. changening them out for different solenoids won't open them further. Its ubsurd to think that it would.
Thats the only possible way the solenoids could effect max power output.
With the TC and CCV 100% open the CRV closed and the system leak free and in functioning condition the ONLY thing that seperates Sequential from non sequential is in peak power rpm's is the removal of the TC gate, and depending on who did the job the removal of the pre controll and CCV butterfly, or in the most extreme case the welding up the pre controll (as in the rich mans NS).
If you wanted to argue that different solenoids would help make the transition better, then sure that might be possible, but I would argue that the limitation lies with the computer controlling the solenoids and the ability to make adjustments too its paramiters.
Providing that the stock TC solenoids work, that the check valves to the vac and boost chambers are good, and that there are no leaks in the system. The stock TC solenoids are going to be able open the TC gate to 100%. changening them out for different solenoids won't open them further. Its ubsurd to think that it would.
Thats the only possible way the solenoids could effect max power output.
With the TC and CCV 100% open the CRV closed and the system leak free and in functioning condition the ONLY thing that seperates Sequential from non sequential is in peak power rpm's is the removal of the TC gate, and depending on who did the job the removal of the pre controll and CCV butterfly, or in the most extreme case the welding up the pre controll (as in the rich mans NS).
If you wanted to argue that different solenoids would help make the transition better, then sure that might be possible, but I would argue that the limitation lies with the computer controlling the solenoids and the ability to make adjustments too its paramiters.
How do you figure? Since NO ONE on this forum has generated over 400rwhp using the stock sequential system, however MANY people have generated more than 400rwhp using the same manifold but non-seq..... Hmmm...
Now, aftermarket solenoids may be able to handle this better, however no one has tried to prove it. But, it is not BS that no one has been able to achieve the exact same power with the stock sequential system as those who have ditched it. Those using BNR's and the older M2's have only achieved around 380 rwhp with the stock sequential system.
Now, aftermarket solenoids may be able to handle this better, however no one has tried to prove it. But, it is not BS that no one has been able to achieve the exact same power with the stock sequential system as those who have ditched it. Those using BNR's and the older M2's have only achieved around 380 rwhp with the stock sequential system.