rynberg

There are also problems with going to 1600s -- which require a fuel pressure regulator and a new fuel rail. You will have to eliminate the ACV, which means no more passing emissions.

Yes, some people have had 1300 injectors fail, but I haven't heard any issues with stepping down to 1200cc injectors. You should still easily have enough fuel for up to 380 rwhp and still be below 90% duty cycles.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Rynberg...haven't seen your posts in a while

Yea I know about the new rail & FPR. Good point about the ACV tho...slipped my mind. And I forgot about the 1200s, too. I think you or someone else mentioned that as an option a while back when I last posted about 1300s. I'll keep that in mind. I take it the 1200s sit on the stock rail just fine?

Neal, I dunno what your current status is...you have to pass emissions, or have you found a way around it? As for power, on a stock engine, you should be right around 360 - 380rwhp tops w/ the new BNRs. In parallel, w/ a matching engine port, they'll top out at about 420rwhp (I don't think they'll pass emissions in parallel), and in sequential, at about 400rwhp. So depends on what you want I guess.

artguy

hmmm....well you sure are hopeful arent u.

Ill give ya 350-350 at the wheels running that boost. Post yer sheets when you dyno it. Would love to see.


mucho luck


j

artguy

because it will cost a person a whole lot more than 3500 to go single if they are doing it right.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

1300's are fine for MANY people. A few people had problems and now everyone shy's away from them. I got them - daily driven at 14 psi and 300 rwhp. No problems in two years.

I'm not trying to turn this thread into a debate or anything, I just think that the 1300's are plenty for the BNR's and if "su_maverick" is not going to go single any time soon (as I would hope not after just spending all that $$ on these turbos ), they are the best investment for these upgraded turbos.

Exidous

I just got my new BNR 3's in... HEHE All I have to say is wow. The machine work is top notch and nothing was missed. I sent in the manifold and he coated and removed the wastegate for me. The turnaroudn was only about 2 1/2 weeks and he kept me updated constantly. I didn't have to call him. I'll let you all know how the install and performance goes. Hey good fellas we should get together sometime next spring.

AgentSpeed

Yeah I've got 1300's and 550's with my BNR's. (Walbro pump) I've never had an issue with my 1300's but I spent the extra to get brand new 850's bored to 1300's. I felt a little safer that way. The less I have to mess with the fuel system the better!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Hey Big J,

if you poke over at the dyno sheet area, you'll see that I made ~342 at 12 psi right before I bugged outta Texas. Ol' Chris Ott at RP (who has made like 70,000 pulls on that dyno) told me he was confident I would have made ~355 at 12 psi if we would have let the car cool down and waited until nighttime to dyno (august texass heat). So, while I agree that 400 at 15 psi is optimistic, it is not as far-fetched as may first appear. Of course, I also have some serious portwork done.....close to 30 hours spent latenight at the shop inhaling clouds of alum/iron dust

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Negative. Best to get new primaries.....your original ones have seen a lot of use over the years. Might as well get new 850s and the milled rail rather than new 550s. As far as the 1300s, I have had no problems. Acc. to the homies over at RC eng, you need to install tham asap once they have been bored out. They use a varnish solution to clean them, and if you let the inj's sit for more than a coupla days or so they can gum up.

Btw, during a tuning session about 1.5 yrs ago w/the old BNR 3s, I was actually running out of pump and the tuner used the injs to compensate by raising the duty cycle at high rpm. This was at like 18 psi, and prolly making well over 400 based on my buttocks dyno.

Rich

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

I will also be running 1300cc inj's, my friends have it on their FD's and so far no problems at all with sticking...

SPOautos

Yea, I should have clarified.....I'd run another one in addition to that one. Take the one that goes to the uim off and run it to the intake as well.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Yea I wasn't saying they're definitely bad, you'll regret it etc. Just sayin that the few reports of them sticking made me cautious, and so I personally would just steer away from 1300s. No reason taking any MORE risks w/ the rotary IMO. And Rynberg made an excellent point...1200s are available as an alternative too.

On the flipside...are there any negatives to just going all out and getting 1600s? Do ppl have probs w/ FPRs? (This is a serious question, not rhetorical )

su_maverick

well, as of right now I cant go any deeper into debt with the new fuel system and ecu and its almost pointless to do it on a fresh engine that needs 1-2k of break in anyway. The only X-factor to this are if my injectors needs to be replaced now anyway. If that happens I will just go ahead and go deeper into debt and spring for the new fuel system and ecu.
Ok, so this is what I will need for the new fuel system: (please add anything Im missing)
1.) Moddified primary ruel rail
2.) Walboro or Denso fuel pump
3.) 2x 850cc primary fuel injectors
4.) 2x 1300cc secondary injectors
OR
4.) Replace secondary fuel rail
5.) 2x Bosch 1600cc injectors

The reason I am interested on the negatives of the 1600s as well is the fact that the Bosch ones retail for $80 a piece and the 1300cc Denso ones retail for about $320 a piece. I could pretty much upgrade my entire fuel system for the price of two of the 1300cc injectors.

su_maverick

so you would have two going from the neck to the intake?





BTW- just found out from Bryan that he will not get my turbos done today and he is leaving for vacation tommorow. So it now looks like it will be January before my car is back on the road. Im not too pleased with this as he guaranteed that they would be shipped back today.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Go with the 1600's and new rail. It will leave you room to grow. If you ever need more you can keep the stock secondaries and put them in the primary rail.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

That was my point...

Oh and Neal, speaking of "rumors" of problems, if you wanna stay away from all possible negatives, skip the Walboro, and stick w/ Denso. I might know someone who can hook you up w/ a good price on them (specifically the stock Supra Turbo fuel pump, which IS the denso pump).

su_maverick

that would be good. Since my turbos have been delayed I am going to have PBC check out my injectors to see what their condition is. Any help on the fuel pump would be appreciated. I am just hessitant because Im a little nervous of having this 7k project turn into a 10k project....15k is alot to swallow in 6 months.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I don't think you're going to need all that fuel. I'm running just 1300 secondaries and a Supra fuel pump, and that's PLENTY with my mods up to 15 psi

matty

enough talk...lets see some dyno sheets.

su_maverick

pete- what are you seeing for injector duty? I am going to be running 15psi as standard but possibly 16-17 on a max run.

matty- as far as I know, there are only two active people on this thread that have the turbos up and running on their cars. I would be happy to show my dyno sheets when the car is ready for it but that will be around march-april before that can happen.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Neal, I'm not trying to say what you should and shouldn't do, but don't waste all that money running 15 - 17 psi on the BNRs. Brian says they're MADE to run 20 - 22 psi, meaning if I were to do it, I'd have my PFC tuned for something like 13 and 21 psi, w/ it normally @ 13, just for every day driving, and 21 when I'm on the prowl. Ie, if you're gonna pay, you might as well play Use the twins for what they're capable of doing.

su_maverick

well, for now they are going to be at 15 when everything is up and running right and I will slowly up the boost and do readouts on it just to make sure I dont get boost happy and blow all the work I just did with it. I have alot of time to play with these suckers and there is no fun in having a dead car for another couple months. Its cheaper to pay for extra tuning rather than a new engine.

BTW- Ramy, I know its just an opinion and that is what we are all looking for (well, with a little fact behind it). I know that I am going to have to upgrade my fuel system and am just looking for other peoples opinions and experiences on doing this. I dont mind going on the safe side and getting the larger injectors but I just dont want to hurt the car/performance by having them OR getting too small injectors and having to upgrade again in the future. I plan on sticking with these things so this is going to be the base of my mods for the years to come.

Also, should I look into getting HKS's fuel cut defender if I am going to be running higher boost? and how about a hew FPR?
So far I have just looked at the new injectors, pump, and rail...what else should I be adding to my cart?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Understandable. I don't think you should slap 'em on and kick out 20psi off the bat, either. Just wanna make sure you're not considering a fuel setup for your current situation ONLY. I say do it once, and do it right. That way, you give yourself more room to play in the future, even in things you never currently considered. Plus, you save labor costs too. Eg, I couldn't afford my lightened flywheel, but I bit the bullet and did it anyways, simply cuz the tranny was out at the time, and it was a fresh clutch. Why pay for all that labor again?

Neal, really, an ECU is the ONLY way to go. You're kidding yourself if you don't think so. I personally would go w/ a PFC, due to it's ease of use, large knowledge base available, and the amount of tuners who are very familiar w/ it (including Ray @ PFS and Demetrious).

If I'm not mistaken, the PFC has a built-in knock-sensor that'll engage fuel cutoff at a given level (that you set). The PFC can do pretty much anything and everything you need from an ECU, minus hold boost well. But you have that angle covered w/ your Profec B. So ECU, ECU, ECU. That, and you'll HAVE to get one to control the 1600s.

Hey Neal, I'm glad you understand. I'm not trying to force you to do this or that...just wanted to chime in w/ my $0.02, cuz I know back in the day when I didn't know much, I woulda LOVED for someone to give me their $0.02, not just for short-term plans, but for long term as well. The good news is, it took me so long to afford the mods I planned, that I never got around to doing one that I'd regret lol

rynberg

We WISH!

The PFC does not retard timing at high knock levels, it just provides a number on the display! Helpful, isn't it?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

LOL...Mine has that horizontal graph, where it gets full/darker the closer to knock you get... I personally thought it was functional tho. Makes sense that it's not given ppl have blown their engines w/ PFCs