riprx7

Hi..

I am about to buy the bnr stage 3 from the rx7store and Im i dont know if I schould get the sec,turbo or non sec turboes:
Can someone here explain the diffrenses and what that should be the best offering here,what boost it is realieble on and if I shold get an bliz booscontroller as well.
I just need some more info,because I might need a fuelkit to as well to hit the highest number hp. What else should I get,I already have the apexi and the exhust.
I was also thinking about the greddy stage 2 ic with piping from rx7store.

Thanks a lot in advance

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

It would be best if you could give us more information to give you a more educated response.
1) What are you planning on using the car for? Autocross? Time attack/road coarse? Daily/spirited Driving?
2) What are your hp goals with the car?

Really the best way (imo) to enjoy this car is with the twins left sequentially if you are not converting to single turbo. They provide a great/smooth boost response and with the bnr's you will have more headroom to turn up the boost and retune the car. DON'T forget to retune!! Depending on what boost you are running you may need to upgrade the fuel system. I would recommend replacing the stock fuel pump with a denso supra tt pump (also availalble at rx7store). If you are really upping the boost to 17psi or so you may need to upgrade the secondary injectors to a 1300cc. Primaries should be fine. YES I would recommend a good boost controller. You will need it. Are you running the stock intercooler?? YES you will most definately need a new one if you are running anything above stock boost levels. You also may want to think about a water injection system as well.

riprx7

MY HP GOAL? Its like as much as possible... and the car is for street driving in Norway... Maybe some track driving too just for fun.
I would really like to have an single turbo but I want to try the bnr since nowhone has that back here where I am from.
I just think I might get the ultimate fuel system so I have this for later on when I go single turbo and some more HP.
But everbody says that the vacume and solenoids are pain in the !"#¤% so thats why I am considering the non sec.twins.
What is the reliablety on the non sec and sec.twins are they like the same on high boost. Or will you be able to run on the higher boost on the non sec and get more HP
Is there any goal to get an custom made downpipe on the bnr^s to achive more HP?

They also have the gt 4088 kit at rx7store.what boost is this turbo effisiant at,I think its really cheap
The bnr are kind of expensive compear to the effective hp

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

You need to do some more research and read the FAQ thread stickied in this forum.

Non Seq still uses the same solenoids. If your turbo control system is working fine, stay sequential. You'll be happier long term. Its much more fun and responsive. Non-Seq doesn't make boost until 3800 RPM or so. Sequential makes boost as low as 2500 RPM.

Most of the dyno sheets that I have seen show similar power levels between BNR and 99 twins when run sequential. Non-Seq does have a bit more top end power potential - if you run an open exhaust (no emissions) and have a good tuner to tune a standalone ECU to make that power.

The regular downpipe for the twins works with the BNR turbos so no need for a custom downpipe. You will need to have the Y pipe modified to work with the BNR turbos.
http://bnrturbos.com/

The BNRs basically bolt in.

Don't be fooled by the initial price compared to power. There is a lot more effort and expense in single turbo than is initially obvious. Read the FAQ and SEarch and you'll see why.

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

Ditto this after reading your above statements. 350whp in an fd is really more than enough for most individuals and certainly plenty for street driving and the occasional track day. 400+whp in an fd and it gets to be a bit more of a challenge to control.

The solenoids, and turbo control system really is not that bad. BUT it does actually require effort to understand. You need to do this anyway just to know how the car functions. And it is most all still used in the non-seq setup minus a few lines.

Total top-end hp is not the only important thing to consider when building a fast car. Especially since you will be using the car for street driving. It will actually be FASTER on the sequential setup with a few less top end hp because you will have MORE USEABLE HP. Meaning the power will come on sooner and last longer in the rpm range than with the non-seq setup.

MakoRacing

iTrader: (12)

If your going to keep twins, stick with seq., if you want to go non-seq you might as well go with a single turbo. IMO

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

if you are spending $2350 on twins, stay sequentail.

otherwise, a smaller single will be more efficient than non sequential twins and not much more in cost. not to mention less heat soaking iron in the engine bay.

riprx7

I think that if the bnr dont put more effect out than the 99 spec twins its a waste a I see it,I tuned my last car in england and the dynobench over there is very stric and I made 312hp on the flywheel with original ports and pfc,hks exhust,greddy fmic

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Wow. It looks to me like you are too lazy to actually do any reading on this forum or even the BNR website. So I will help spell out the basics for you. After this, I am hoping you will stop posting for a short hiatus; which should be spent reading the 1,492 (see what I did there) threads about BNR turbos.

Non-sequential BNRs: pointless. Unless you have an obsession with having single turbo esque performance, with all the negatives of the factory manifold.

Sequential BNRs: great for quick power an will work for higer boost applications than thestock twins will (yes, even the 99 spec are still prone to the same "high boost=early failure" that the stock 93-95 twins are susceptable to.)
If you want:
-Sequentail performance with higher peak power capability.
-Sequential performance with semi-bolt-on ease of install.
-Sequential performance with better reliability at higher boost levels.
Then the BNRs are for you.

I truly believe you can get near 400 whp (notice I said near) with the sequential BNR twins. And I also believe that would be a handful of a car to handle. But at the same time... I bet it would be a friggin blast to drive!

riprx7

Im sorry for making stupid questions,but there are like 1000 different answer on all the post that has been written before.
And my buy is like in a hurry so when the firm that I whanted sigleturbo kit from not might get it made in time I have to have an second plan and thats the bnr..
I think I have all the answers now that I was looking for thank!!!

matty

its simple actually. if you get the bnrs DONT get them in non-seq. there is no science to the question. the purpose of these twins is to gain a little power while keeping the spool time stock'ish.

running a single is a MUCH better option if you plan to run these in nonseq. in my opinion getting them in nonseq defeats the entire purpose of selecting these turbos. i just dont get it.

matty

i dont understand the value in the above statement. make decisions in life to suit your needs. dont let others influence you. getting something that doesnt fulfil your needs b/c no one else has it seems really childish. sorry just being honest.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Here, how about this simple questionaire:

Do you want Stock spool? (the quick power without turbo lag)
Yes = Sequential BNR's
No = Go Single

Do you want stock spool with the capabilit fr more reliable boost?
Yes = Sequential BNR's
No = Go Single

Do not waste your time with non sequential BNRs. Simple.

Ifthis doesn't answer your wuestions in a hurry... then you are not reading. If you want stock spool with more reliablity and higher boost capability, the BNRs are for you. Done. I think there have been people making 380ish whp on the sequential bnrs.

I you want 400+ hp and dont care about a bit of turbo lag... then go single.

matty

you are right monkman BUT here is the problem, what if u can make that same power on the stock twins sequentially or maybe 5-10 rwhp less?

i have been for yrs. so does g's thirdgen, mattyr1, and several others. and these guys have been doing it for yrs and are respected long term members. they beat cars like turbo porsches and z06s so its not a faulty dyno. however i have never seen trap speeds from them. but i believe em for sure.

so we need a new option to this thread:
1 )bnr
2) go single
and the new one 3) stay stock twins.

i made 360 at 14psi and my engine is stock. i run 15-16psi now (16 is peak and it tappers off to 15 by redline in the lower gear but holds 16 in 4th the whole time) and it traps 119mph many times. i actually saw a 120mph trap recently in cooler weather. so i am probably already making 380. if i had a port it would be 400. thats right a 120mph trap on stock engine and twins.

all u gotta do is run the boost that everyone is afraid to for no reason. if u have a good tune (kan or dave), a good ic, a good intake and a good amount of fuel you can do it for years. and by good i mean the best choices.....an m2 ic, a ms cool air box...etc.

sorry i had to. i want these up and comers to hear the truths.

matty

oh one thing i wanted to add.

i used to never get above 14.5 psi unless weather was cool with the power fc. but i have found if u lower the tgt boost and duty cycle for the primary turbo it allows for more boost on the secondary. i think it has to do with pre- spool. NOW CRANK THAT BOOST. Let me know if anyone needs details.

Cgotto6

iTrader: (8)

There is no way this is true. 14 PSI and 360whp? You have to be talking crank hp. And in that case, why the hell are you talking about flywheel hp? To make your numbers seem impressive?

matty

how about this..go **** yourself. you like that?

it was an rx7 dyno day tons of peeps there. jerkoff.

and as u can see i got the trap to back it up. so buddy take a walk. but u dont now about that stuff do you. u are internet boy.

95% of the fds on this forum are crap, 5th owner cars, owned by kids (i see you are one), modded like crap from ebay or just diy stuff. good clean cars make power. i can show u alot. maybe it was 14.5 psi. i was seeing 1.03 peak on pfc and it backed off alittle. 1.00 or so. that was then.

i think u need to wake up. just cause your car is crap doesnt mean all of ours are.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Wow. For someone who has been on here since before I was even a lurker (02) this type of reply is surprising to see. I will leave it at that.

Both posts were off topic.

Matty, in regards to your comments about sticking with the stock twins. If you had BNR's in your setup, you would make more power. Just from the more efficient CHRAs and it would be much more reliable for long term life span of the turbos. This is the main point of the BNRs. It might only be 10-20 more whp, but it would be better. One of the major differences between stock twins and the BNRs is the increase in center shaft size and the 360 degree thrust bearings compared to the 270 degree of stock.

Also Matty, the stock twins are Hitachi HT12s, the BNRs are Garret GT28s.

I sincerely hope you don't take my tone in any other way other than informative. I am not implying any rudeness or attempting to be snide in any way.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

There is a reason the stock twins tend to fail early at higher boost levels. They just weren't made for extended use at the shaft rpm that 15-18 lbs of boost requires. The BNRs address this with a larger center shaft in each turbo and 360 degree thrust bearings. I also know that BNR gets custom CHRAs to assure that the oil and coolant passages are properly positioned for stock mounting.

Also, with all of the exact same supporting mods you mentioned, the BNRs should have near identical spool in sequential format, slightly lower IATs, higher power, and will last longer.

Also, since you bring up tuning, you want to make sure you keep your EGTs in check. This will help any turbo charger last longer. Water injection is a good route for this. Allows for a better tune, and lowers egts, and knock, and cleans your internals.

So in the OPs goals, there are still only 2 options if longevity is a factor:
1. Sequential BNRs
2. Go single

I am sure there are plenty of people that have gone a long time on stock twins at 10-14 psi boost (also, 1 bar is 14.7, so it you saw 1.x bar, you were at or above 15 psi). But there have probably been more people that have had stock twins fail very early on in the 15-18 psi range... and I am fairly certain that they had good "tunes" too. At the higher boost levels, it is not a tuning fault. It is a mechanical properties difference that create inherent weaknesses.

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

This is precisely where I am aiming on this one. Thanks Gordon!

Nathan

matty

yeah thats right. b.c i hate people that think they know soemthing and tell you that you are lieing when in fact you are trying to help.

yeah thats what i do....i come on the internet to lie about my 15k car.

and no of course i dont take your response as rude. i value it. you were 100% right. i was just adding an option....keeping twins is all.

what gets me angry are juniors that tell others they are lieing.

matty

wrong actually. power fc isnt in bar.

1.0 = 14.22

i think its mmhg vs inhg or something

where as one bar = 14.7

matty

what experience do u have that dictates 15 psi is bad. the forum?

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

FWIW I'm running the equiv of 401whp on my BNR's, sequentially. My dyno tuning/run was done in England on the Australian brand DynoDynamics Dyno. These dyno's (known as "heartbreak" dyno's by some people in the states) tend to show 15%-18% lower numbers then the typical DynoJet/DynoPack used in the States.

I made 340whp (add 15%-18% for "U.S." numbers) at 1.2bar with sequential BNRs, stock ports, a larve VMIC and water/meth Injection.

matty

go to the 1/4 mile strip and tell us your times.

this dyno does that this dyno does that. this is uncorrected this is corrected. this has this correction value that has that value .its so hard to keep track of. whats it all mean?