vancouver_reign

Hey everyone,

For the last few months I have been reading thread after thread of comparisons between single and twin, and sequential and non-sequential turbos. After much indecision I think I will go with the BNR Stage III's. I like the idea of staying as close to a factory set-up as possible. However I still need a little bit of help. Here are my questions:

1) When using these turbos in non-sequential mode, what do you have to do to compensate the electronics for the change? Especially what kind of changes would I have to make to tune my Power FC?

2) What are some ideal parts to use to maximize my turbo response, and reduce lag? Which intercooler, blow-off valve...etc.

3) With the turbos being machined to compensate for the two Garrett turbos, will they lose some life? Also, will these turbos still have the same life problems as the originals? Will they produce less/same/more heat? Is there anything I can do to reduce the heat (ceramic coating)?

Any help you guys can provide would be appreciated. Thx!!!!

Viper1308

Hey , Im getting my car changed to BNR stage 3s right now. Gotham Racing is doing them for me. I have a Power FC and commander but Steve you need something like the Greddy Profec A or B boost controller. Steve will street tune them for me once they are finished also. I hear the heat is less since there is less back pressure. And it looks like from what ive read on other threads that the life should be very good. The dynamic seals are way more durable than the stock carbon seals. Oh and im doing non sequential. Steve said they boost soo quick its almost pointless to do them sequential. I also had to change my injectors to 850s on primary and secondary. Im looking forward to getting it back.

Thebestmotoring

I just had mine installed by KDR and tuned. However, like Viper1308 said you will need to have a boost controller since the stock soldnoid will not keep up with these turbos, Dave could not get my BNR and PFC to go higher than .9bar after the soldnoid starts to vent at around 6 g. rpm as the dyno shows. I got about 320rwhp with dropping boost after 6g at .9 bar.with stock motor and all the bolt-ons and fmic. Dave will install Profec B Monday and bring the boost up to 15-16psi.
Dave, have dyno best 371rwhp at 15psi on the BNR with stock motor. Streetport motor should get close to 400rwhp safely on street gas. Good luck. BTW, Dave's dyno is still acting up even after some service done from Dynometer.

artguy

the bnrs are not garrett twins...those are the m2 set.

the bnrs have a lot more blades on their wheels than the m2 set i have. the wheel size is about the same. the bnrs are shaft bearing and the m2s are ball bearing.

you are going to need my mod list if you want to run that setup.

look up spoautos and see his list...he has the best numbers posted out of that setup thus far. 403rwhp at 17psi. yer going to need everything he has and then the dyno tuning time.

as far as intercoolers you will want the one with the lowest pressure drop possible IMHO. xs pushes the front mount pretty hard due to the cooling differences on the dyno but both stephen and I are happy with the m2 stock mounts (less pressure drop than the fmic and thus the turbos dont have to work as hard to get the same amount of boost as you read on your guage...not to mention the fact that you arent blocking your radiator and increasing engine bay temps with a smic like you are with the smic) Id go with the m2 large or the m2 medium.

keep a grand aside for tuning time...unless you have a datalogit and a wideband.


j

vancouver_reign

First off, thx for all the advice guys. Helps a lot when the ppl that respond have/are familiar with the same set-up.

Is there anybody out there that has ever successfully tuned the Power FC for this set-up? Can I still run my PFC with a boost-controller?

I really don't want to get rid of my PFC after spending sooo much money!

vancouver_reign

My bad I thought the BNR's had the gt30 twins. Also...anybody know where I can get the best price for the BNR's???

kwikrx7

You don't need to sell the PFC - that's your ecu! Most people use the Profec B even though they have the PFC to control boost. The PFC used a solenoid to control boost which isn't going to perform as well as the Profec B. I am using the PFC to control boost and it works fine. I'm running the Stage 2s sequentially. Bryan put a lot of time into my turbos and I think they spool about as fast as the Stage 3s - 15 psi by 2800 rpms which is faster than the stock twins.

Greys 10th

I believe that the only place to get BNR turbos is directly from BNR. His phone number is 1-205-663-4797.
Hope that helps.
later

OneBadRx7

Well you can get them at the RX7store or from Gotham Racing. I am sure the prices are the same about anywhere though, I would just go directly through BNR.

vancouver_reign

Thx for the contacts guys. Now here is the question I hate the most. With everything there is always a down-side.

What are the biggest disadvantages/problems with the BNR turbos experienced so far????

FEARED7

Hey Fellas.

Thanks for your support. It means a lot. To be honest with you guys, the more sets of stage 3's I do, the better and more reliable they become. We have had issues of smoking, we solved that with restrictor pills, and we have also had a small problem with a shortage of parts, but the parts ordeal has been solved so that isn't an issue anymore . If anyone has a problem, let me know and we'll get it figured out.

take care,
Bryan
bnrsupercars
205 663 4797

lerch32

iTrader: (6)

Speaking of pills. HE HE

vancouver_reign

Ok...now I am confused...it seems almost impossible to decide between the M2 set versus the BNR set. I have dealt with M2 in the past, they were quite helpful. And the way Bryan is always here, plus other ppl's experiences, he seems ready to stand behind his work as well. I suspect many of you guys contemplated the same choices as me at one point or another. Can you guys maybe just go through some of your reasoning why you chose one over the other???

Also some more questions:

Are both the kits rebuildable?
Are both kits pretty easy to install (direct bolt-in)?
Is any work done to the manifold??
Any direct dyno comparisons ever done? ( I have checked out www.catenet.net)

Thx again boyz!!!

SPOautos

BNR's are definatly rebuildable and if you send in a good core they only cost $2150 and you get a one year warrently.

I'm running the BNR's and like them a lot. I've made good power with them, they spool good, and they didnt cost a absolute fortune.

Oh yea, for boost control you can also use a manual diy for $15 or a buy a nice manual for $50. You dont HAVE to get a $$$ electronic boost controller

STEPHEN

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

if u are gonna run twins in non sequential mode, u might as well get single, power band is the same, less heat, less things to have apex seals go thru and pretty much the same cost.

matty

GT 35/40 !!!!

SPOautos

I havent seen a FULL GT35/40 kit that includes everything to totally swap it over to that turbo for $2100. At the very least its 50% more than that and the GT35/40 kits are about the cheapest you can get.

And likewise, the stage 3's run cooler than the normal stock twins. In addition they can be rebuilt failry cheap by BNR, and I'm not even sure if the 35/40 can be rebuilt.....does anyone know if it can or what the cost is? I thought you had to buy a complete new cartridge for it.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about the merits of going single, I'm just sharing the info about the BNR's.

STEPHEN

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

how much power are u looking for, to4e s or r are all very good turbos no need to go ball bearing, and those can be rebuilt cheapr and faster. thre is ABSOLUTELY no need to go upgraded stock twins if u are gonna go non sequential, the upgraded twins are not cheap anywya. evrything u need for a single conversion is downpipe, turbo manifold and the turbo. all those can obtained for about 1500.

SPOautos

Well, that stuff along with a wg, pipe to the IC, oil feed and drain lines that you have to adapt, along with a filter (petty I know)

If you piece it together yes, it can be cost effective but most people cant and wont, they'll get a kit that has everything and its going to be alot more than $2100. Most of the decent all inclusive kits start around $3500 and go up from there.

STEPHEN

3isacharm

does anybody have any dynos that they could post of the BNR's. i will be having mine rebuilt in the next 6 months and i just wanted to make sure that i can hit 400rwhp with these bad boys. also has anybody had any problems with the reliability of thesew turbos. it seems like they might give out if run at such a high psi on a semi regular basis( couple times a week)

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Hey Brian, what is their upper boost limit you think is safe for the BNRs? CJ

cavellm

I heard their prime power efficiency is between 13-19 pounds.. But don't quote me.

Thebestmotoring

Here is my number from Dave, I still got stock healthy motor, compression tested around 8 all around. With all the bolt-on and 1300cc sec. inj.

Hey Ken..hope the following helps..we finished dynoing and the numbers are
as such
10 lbs 308.5 rwhp
12 lbs 329 rwhp
14 lbs 335.5 rwhp
15.5 lbs 357.1 rwhp
above 16 lbs the car started to misfire..you would need igniton to get there
cleanly..we now have car on lft finishing rear wheel bushings....will be
ready for ya on friday..thanks...dave@KDR

Don't forget Dave's dyno is somewhat off 10-20rwhp. Plus once I swap out the old (9)plugs and turn up the boost a little. 380rwhp should be no problem for 16psi.
Then if my motor was ported, 400rwhp should not be a problem from them.

Hope it helps your decision.

Ken

SPOautos

Also, your going to get some more power with an ignition amp. If you run some heat range plugs of about 10 and run a MSD6a you shouldnt have any breakup problems. Thats what I run and I havent had any probs at all, revs like butter all the way up over 400rwhp

STEPHEN

Thebestmotoring

Actually, stupid me, I bought the EGV10 per your advise and I thought I put them in before my trip to KD but I total forgot to put them in I even had the box of spark plugs in my hands and thinking I did put them in. I think I will put the HKS unit in for ease of installation.
BTW, my buddy had the same set up but he's got the street port motor and I got the BNR, with same boost level, I gained 13rwhp over his, that also prove my $$$ was well spent.

Ken