best front mount IC??
12-04-02, 10:40 PM
#53
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Originally posted by Chronos
qball, do you have a HKS Ti tip exhaust??? I think I saw your car on the statnd at autotech, heeh
qball, do you have a HKS Ti tip exhaust??? I think I saw your car on the statnd at autotech, heeh
yep.. that's mine.. it blew up right before sevenstock.
should be done next week.. took a while because i was busy getting parts to put it back together.
12-04-02, 10:43 PM
#54
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Originally posted by GoRacer
QBall, do you have a touring? HKS wasn't sure if you could be the fog lights when I asked them.
QBall, do you have a touring? HKS wasn't sure if you could be the fog lights when I asked them.
on the other hand.. the blitz and apex'i intercoolers mount behind the car frame and are not too far forward and do not require cutting.. so.. you might be able to.. but please dont take my word for it.
12-04-02, 10:47 PM
#55
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Originally posted by SleepR1
is that the Greddy FMIC?
is that the Greddy FMIC?
12-05-02, 01:40 AM
#56
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heeh, I watched Jeff's worker guy take apart your motor while I was there. I never really knew how small those little stockers actually are!
Too bad you missed out on sevenstock V, it was a hell of a fun time as you might have heard
I made the trek up with my friend and his '98 Dinan M3 equiped with GPS and a Valentino 1...I'd seriously say getting up there was the funnest part, damn is he a fast driver!
Anyways, maybe we'll meet up at a later event, once I get MY new engine
Too bad you missed out on sevenstock V, it was a hell of a fun time as you might have heard
I made the trek up with my friend and his '98 Dinan M3 equiped with GPS and a Valentino 1...I'd seriously say getting up there was the funnest part, damn is he a fast driver!Anyways, maybe we'll meet up at a later event, once I get MY new engine
12-05-02, 09:00 AM
#57
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Originally posted by Chronos
We're not talking about fmic's for street use, we're talking about sustained road racing abuse on a hot day...we're talking about making the rx7's heat problem a non-issue.
In regards to Cam...how much hp does he run? about 350?? And even then he has to do special custom ducting which wouldn't really be practical on a street/track machine. I'm concerned about a system that will run up to 550hp+ with no heat issues.
Thanks for your input though...if you're making a street only machine or dragger and don't plan on road racing, then I say use a fmic if you want...I still wouldn't given the FD's characteristic of running hot, but to each his own
We're not talking about fmic's for street use, we're talking about sustained road racing abuse on a hot day...we're talking about making the rx7's heat problem a non-issue.
In regards to Cam...how much hp does he run? about 350?? And even then he has to do special custom ducting which wouldn't really be practical on a street/track machine. I'm concerned about a system that will run up to 550hp+ with no heat issues.
Thanks for your input though...if you're making a street only machine or dragger and don't plan on road racing, then I say use a fmic if you want...I still wouldn't given the FD's characteristic of running hot, but to each his own
Anyways, yeah I realize this was a discussion about racing with a FMIC. I was just responding to the post that was above mine that said:
Cam does use a FMIC on the white race car, as do alot of Japanese race cars... but they are race cars. They never sit in beltway traffic or have they're cooling systems tested the way a street car does.
However, I agree with you that where maybe one day I'll finally hit 400rwhp, things could change significantly if you're making 550+. That's a lot of extra heat.
12-05-02, 12:02 PM
#58
Originally posted by Qball
on the other hand.. the blitz and apex'i intercoolers mount behind the car frame and are not too far forward and do not require cutting.. so.. you might be able to.. but please dont take my word for it.
on the other hand.. the blitz and apex'i intercoolers mount behind the car frame and are not too far forward and do not require cutting.. so.. you might be able to.. but please dont take my word for it.
I had a question for you about the HKS kit.. about how thick is the core in inches? It really looks like it would be a PITA to work on the car the way the IC pipes bend and mount to the IC near the bottom.. maybe not, just an observation. Looks great though..
If anyone is looking for a fmic that does NOT require cutting/removing of the stock bumper, retains a working A/C system, is large enough for a good single turbo (ie not the Greddy 2 row), has top quality craftsmanship, and will only take 4-6 hours to install.. take a look at the Blitz.
12-06-02, 10:37 AM
#61
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I'm about to switch to a GReddy three row from the CWR IC which is a slanted stock mount fed with a carbon fiber duct. I've been tuning a new single turbo setup which consists of what is normally very large T78 converted to an even larger GT79 compressor side wheel (Garrett). I usually tune out on the highway using a wideband. Recently, I created a very large datalog (yes, using the PFC and the Datalogit) and was surprised to have noticed a 20 degree jump in IAT's under sustained boost (15psi) up to 135ish, done several times in a row. Granted I live in S. Florida, but temps were chilly and under normal cruise, I was seeing somewhere in the 32 degree C range which would increase to the 50's under boost (say 4-5 runs in a row up to 135mph in 4th). Dropping back down to cruising speed, the temps would quickly drop. My coolant temps increased maybe 2 degrees.
What I don't currently have is an oil temp gauge. Remember 2/3 of the cooling done on a rotary is through the oil. Surprise surprise. My main reason for switching to a FMIC is to facilitate the addition of a working filter on the front of the turbo. As is, there's only room for a screen and I don't think even an HKS would fit (besides they're green and ugly and don't filter well!). I'm also more than a bit curious as to whether things will change. I know that IAT's will be more stable with the FMIC however, especially with a big single.
I would suggest that those going with a large FMIC upgrade their oil coolers as well. I think you'll notice the difference. I've also "upgraded" the front end to a FEED Type II (from RotaryExtreme) which gives space on either side of the FMIC for air to hit the radiator. Naturally ducting will be employed but it's still not the perfect solution.
Cam's car does use a front mount which he makes himself. I do not know off hand what core he is using. Ultimately, I would like to create a double lower splitter to help channel air underneath the FMIC and onto the radiator. He's also limited in how much boost he can run which is a relevant fact.
As alluded to earlier, all the Japanese cars, except for Panspeed, use a FMIC, including RE Amemiya's GT2000 car. They're running fairly high boost at full race speeds in those videos, and it is true that they begin to run hot after a bunch of all-out laps. I gained this knowledge from the editor of the Japanese RX7 Magazine who was in town for the Sebring 12 hrs. and to shoot the Mazda Rotary Car Club of Florida (I'm in issue 14!).
Anyway, I'll datalog with the FMIC to see what the differences are between the two setups. Part of my problem, at least with the CWR SMIC, is that everything must be sealed tightly as the large IC and the ducting shields the radiator from behind, decreasing flow-through. I saw a general increase in coolant temps with this setup and my radiator not completely sealed. I didn't notice this with the stock OEM IC.
As for pressure drop, I can see it being greater with say the Apexi and HKS. Not sure about the Blitz. But the IC piping for the GReddy FMIC is at most, a few inches longer than the CWR pipes. The GReddy has smooth cast end tanks too, which I'm sure are better than the very good CWR end tanks. Pressure drop with the CWR was very low btw...I've always been a proponent of the SMIC setup. We'll see how things go!
What I don't currently have is an oil temp gauge. Remember 2/3 of the cooling done on a rotary is through the oil. Surprise surprise. My main reason for switching to a FMIC is to facilitate the addition of a working filter on the front of the turbo. As is, there's only room for a screen and I don't think even an HKS would fit (besides they're green and ugly and don't filter well!). I'm also more than a bit curious as to whether things will change. I know that IAT's will be more stable with the FMIC however, especially with a big single.
I would suggest that those going with a large FMIC upgrade their oil coolers as well. I think you'll notice the difference. I've also "upgraded" the front end to a FEED Type II (from RotaryExtreme) which gives space on either side of the FMIC for air to hit the radiator. Naturally ducting will be employed but it's still not the perfect solution.
Cam's car does use a front mount which he makes himself. I do not know off hand what core he is using. Ultimately, I would like to create a double lower splitter to help channel air underneath the FMIC and onto the radiator. He's also limited in how much boost he can run which is a relevant fact.
As alluded to earlier, all the Japanese cars, except for Panspeed, use a FMIC, including RE Amemiya's GT2000 car. They're running fairly high boost at full race speeds in those videos, and it is true that they begin to run hot after a bunch of all-out laps. I gained this knowledge from the editor of the Japanese RX7 Magazine who was in town for the Sebring 12 hrs. and to shoot the Mazda Rotary Car Club of Florida (I'm in issue 14!).
Anyway, I'll datalog with the FMIC to see what the differences are between the two setups. Part of my problem, at least with the CWR SMIC, is that everything must be sealed tightly as the large IC and the ducting shields the radiator from behind, decreasing flow-through. I saw a general increase in coolant temps with this setup and my radiator not completely sealed. I didn't notice this with the stock OEM IC.
As for pressure drop, I can see it being greater with say the Apexi and HKS. Not sure about the Blitz. But the IC piping for the GReddy FMIC is at most, a few inches longer than the CWR pipes. The GReddy has smooth cast end tanks too, which I'm sure are better than the very good CWR end tanks. Pressure drop with the CWR was very low btw...I've always been a proponent of the SMIC setup. We'll see how things go!
12-09-02, 12:35 AM
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Are you referring to RE Amemiya's car they run in JGTC? Because that car runs 300hp, something to consider if that's the same one. Also, all japanese cars aren't rotary powered (duh) and one of the reasons I so strongly advocate the V-mount is the inherent characteric of the rotary engine to run hot.
12-09-02, 03:16 AM
#63
Ghost Ride the Whip
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actually the RE amemiya one in JGTC is a 3 rotor NA. and it pushes 400horses.
as far as Front mount intercoolers go, yes, all the japanese tuners use them but knightsports and panspeed have their own V-mount intercoolers (they are each different). I still don't know how they get away with FMIC in japan though...
as far as Front mount intercoolers go, yes, all the japanese tuners use them but knightsports and panspeed have their own V-mount intercoolers (they are each different). I still don't know how they get away with FMIC in japan though...
12-09-02, 03:45 AM
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400hp in the GT300 series? that's news to me. where did you get info on this? I don't know much about JGTC...I thought they were 300hp in the GT300 series and 500 in the GT500, post some URL's if you have any.
12-09-02, 05:29 AM
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I just thought I'd say thanks for an interesting and knowledgable thread. The intercooler debate is probably the biggest one I have in my mind right now. Argh so complicated....
12-09-02, 05:50 AM
#66
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400hp in the GT300 series? that's news to me. where did you get info on this? I don't know much about JGTC...I thought they were 300hp in the GT300 series and 500 in the GT500, post some URL's if you have any.
12-10-02, 08:18 PM
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JGTC is classified by PS (japanese equivalent of HP) NOT weight, the cars in each series have the respective power rating of that series GT500 = 500ps GT300 = 300ps. The cars are not required to run the same motors that come in the stock cars so the Supras use the MR2 motors because they're lighter and can easily attain 500ps. There are no supras in GT300. The Skylines in the GT500 class use the stock engines instead of something lighter like an SR20 because they want to prove a point that they can win with them. There is no minimum weight restrictions in JGTC but they penalize the podium cars with weight ballasts which they display with stickers on the car, they're also allowed to put the weight ballasts anywhere they want on the cars.
The GT500 is the main race series with all factory backed high dollar cars. The GT300 is more of a privateer series (the rx7 runs here since it isn't factory backed, it's RE Amemiya's car) an NSX also runs in the GT300 series as a privateer car.
The GT500 is the main race series with all factory backed high dollar cars. The GT300 is more of a privateer series (the rx7 runs here since it isn't factory backed, it's RE Amemiya's car) an NSX also runs in the GT300 series as a privateer car.
Last edited by Chronos; 12-10-02 at 08:41 PM.
