best front mount IC??
11-27-02, 10:30 AM
#26
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Yup, it was definitely a FMIC, just don't remember which one. I also remember seeing that he had little lips on the belly pan to direct air that passes under the FMIC up through the radiator. And he had really straight intake tubes compared to the twisty Apex ones.
Just to clarify, I'm talking about the car he uses in the GT Series that they show on (ex)Speedvision. I assume he only has one race car.......
Just to clarify, I'm talking about the car he uses in the GT Series that they show on (ex)Speedvision. I assume he only has one race car.......
11-27-02, 01:13 PM
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the black banzai car w/ silver racing stripes has a fmic. i think it's a custom spearco.
as for the delta fins on the apex ic, they should work a little better for letting air pass through than a regular fmic. a lot of the air hitting the flat surface of a fmic will bounce off it, like spraying a water hose toward a wall. the angled design of the apex ic tries to funnel more of the air through the fins. how much more air goes through the apec fmic is hard to quantify, but it's probably minimal and probably not worth the extra cost.
as for the delta fins on the apex ic, they should work a little better for letting air pass through than a regular fmic. a lot of the air hitting the flat surface of a fmic will bounce off it, like spraying a water hose toward a wall. the angled design of the apex ic tries to funnel more of the air through the fins. how much more air goes through the apec fmic is hard to quantify, but it's probably minimal and probably not worth the extra cost.
11-27-02, 05:48 PM
#35
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tailhappy,
I have a Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development Calendar 2002...December is Cam Worth's month. Car no. 72 is clearly showing a FMIC...I'm no expert, but I "think" it's the delta fin core from Apexi?
So now I'm wondering...if the the Apexi FMIC is good enough for Cam Worth, it's gotta be good enough for me, right?
I have a Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development Calendar 2002...December is Cam Worth's month. Car no. 72 is clearly showing a FMIC...I'm no expert, but I "think" it's the delta fin core from Apexi?
So now I'm wondering...if the the Apexi FMIC is good enough for Cam Worth, it's gotta be good enough for me, right?
11-27-02, 10:59 PM
#36
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Originally posted by jimlab
Perhaps you could tell everyone what the pressure drop across the core is, and how it compares to the other models that are available. You do know what pressure drop is, don't you? What about fitment issues? Any idea what the surface area of the core is and how much of it is exposed when mounted behind a stock front bumper? How about any effects on coolant temperature and A/C efficiency from blocking airflow to the radiator and condenser?
Perhaps you could tell everyone what the pressure drop across the core is, and how it compares to the other models that are available. You do know what pressure drop is, don't you? What about fitment issues? Any idea what the surface area of the core is and how much of it is exposed when mounted behind a stock front bumper? How about any effects on coolant temperature and A/C efficiency from blocking airflow to the radiator and condenser?
11-28-02, 12:09 AM
#38
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why do people think fmic's are so damn good? Totally putting aside the fact that they dump LOADS of heat into the engine bay...have you seen Chuck's IC? it's huge! and it's supports 600hp! what the heck is the gain of a fmic??? more pressure drop??? unless you're running a super high boost T51R KAI or T-78 with nitrous for ROAD RACING, I'd say a fmic won't do anything for you but give you tons of heat into the engine bay and pressure drop! If it wasn't for Chucks new system I would be advocating SMIC's right here, a fmic is just not the way to go for road racing. Period.
12-03-02, 01:41 PM
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Because they LOOK cool, and that's what that's what it's all REALLY about, right??? 
Seriously, for me, Chuck's IC wasn't available when I put in my FMIC, and I was already planning on switching to a single turbo, and I had a friend that wanted to sell his......
But I still have trouble believing that Cam would have done anything on his race car other than what's best (at least at the time).
Seriously, for me, Chuck's IC wasn't available when I put in my FMIC, and I was already planning on switching to a single turbo, and I had a friend that wanted to sell his......
But I still have trouble believing that Cam would have done anything on his race car other than what's best (at least at the time).
12-03-02, 02:29 PM
#40
Originally posted by SleepR1
Interesting that Cam uses a FMIC...
Still confused...
Interesting that Cam uses a FMIC...
Still confused...
Cam does use a FMIC on the white race car, as do alot of Japanese race cars... but they are race cars. They never sit in beltway traffic or have they're cooling systems tested the way a street car does.
FWIW,
Cams car is a stripped-down racecar w/ no A/C (which cuts down on a great deal of air blockage you'd see on a street car), and the radiator he uses isn't an RX7 radiator ...its HUGE. It stands straight up, practically from belly pan to hood, is about 3 inches thick, and extensive tin-work has been done to re-duct everything... its a totally custom setup.
There are plenty of stories from folks who install FMICs and have "no problems", but is the cooling system really the system you want to test? You can probably run your injectors at 95% duty cycle and not blow up for a while too, but i'm not gonna test it. For my part, i want to give the cooling system any advantage it can have in case of a tough situation. I'll eat a little intake temp and heatsoak in the tradeoff.
On a piston car, FMICs are great, because they usually have much more margin for safety in the cooling system, and if they DO overheat by chance, its less likely to cost them a motor. I don't think looking at pure racecars to assess what will work on the street is too hot an idea...
12-03-02, 03:24 PM
#41
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Actually, interestingly enough (and someone else mentioned this too, I think), I've never had ANY problems with overheating on the street due to a FMIC. The FMIC is SO BIG, that it doesn't absorb much heat from a quick boost, thus it stays at near ambient temps and doesn't cause the radiator to be any hotter. The only time the FMIC has increased my water temps is after extended periods of long boosting on a track, and I don't think this would even be an issue if I had things ducted properly.
And another thing to consider. High intake temps can cause detonation which can also kill an engine. But our engines can tolerate a fairly large variance in water temps.
Not arguing FMICs are right or wrong, just offering up some more to consider....
And another thing to consider. High intake temps can cause detonation which can also kill an engine. But our engines can tolerate a fairly large variance in water temps.
Not arguing FMICs are right or wrong, just offering up some more to consider....
12-03-02, 04:36 PM
#42
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Originally posted by TailHappy
I've never had ANY problems with overheating on the street due to a FMIC.
I've never had ANY problems with overheating on the street due to a FMIC.
In regards to Cam...how much hp does he run? about 350?? And even then he has to do special custom ducting which wouldn't really be practical on a street/track machine. I'm concerned about a system that will run up to 550hp+ with no heat issues.
Thanks for your input though...if you're making a street only machine or dragger and don't plan on road racing, then I say use a fmic if you want...I still wouldn't given the FD's characteristic of running hot, but to each his own
12-03-02, 04:57 PM
#43
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a fmic is best because it it gets the ic out of the engine and puts it in a place for maximum cooling. there is no other position that can do this as well. high intake temps can easily cause detonation. of course the drawback is that it block air to the radiator, but in a smic setup the radiator blocks air to the ic. in a fmic setup at least air passes through the ic and into the radiator. while it is restricted and hotter now, it's better than getting the super hot air from a radiator blown onto a smic, which will quickly heat soak it. a v-mount would be a compromise between the two but the ic is still in the engine bay soaking up a shitload of heat. so whichever way you choose you're fucked one way or the other.
12-03-02, 07:00 PM
#44
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IMHO, the SMIC, V-mount IC/Rad, or HMIC when used with a vented hood and IC fans will probably compare favorably to a good FMIC?? The upshot with the HMIC/SMIC/V-Mount is that you don't block the radiator from cooling air
The upshot with the HMIC/SMIC/V-Mount is that you don't block the radiator from cooling air
12-03-02, 07:24 PM
#46
Originally posted by ptrhahn
Cam does use a FMIC on the white race car, as do alot of Japanese race cars... but they are race cars. They never sit in beltway traffic or have they're cooling systems tested the way a street car does.
Cam does use a FMIC on the white race car, as do alot of Japanese race cars... but they are race cars. They never sit in beltway traffic or have they're cooling systems tested the way a street car does.
Matt
