im rebuilding my motor, just wondering which is best for good boost but not to crazy. i hear the stock seals are the best, but i also heard about carbon seals. there is so many to choose from. help me out guys.
if you have any experence with different seals let me know.

thanks
geoff

ps: im lookin for 400-450whp, just to give you idea of what i want.

 

what type of longevity are you looking at?

they also make ceramic i believe.

 

Atkins 2mm seal. Same size as stock, but stronger.

 

And when they do go out...little to no damage to the engine. I had 2 engine's fail (bad tuner fucked **** up...me...) and both times, the atkins seals chipped a corner or broke pieces out of them...

...and EVERYTHING was salvageable... Didn't mess up a rotor or rotor housing or a turbo exhaust blade. Just had to buy an o-ring kit and new apex seals.

 

I can't tell you what's best for your application but I can pass on what I have herd. Stock 2mm are three piece units seal up very well but are fragile to detonation. 2mm two piece units seal good and are more resistant to detonation. 3mm two piece are stronger but wear out sooner due to more weight thrown against the rotor housings at high RPMs. 3mm one piece even stronger still but tend to not seal up the compression chamber as well in the corners causing a minor loss in HP. 3mm ceramic are lighter and stronger still but don't wear out like the metal seals do, but when they do break they tend to shatter wiping out rotors, housings and turbos. All apex seals will break under detonation some sooner then others.

Steve

 

i want a rotary w/o apex seals.
the words apex seal give me nightmares, the kind that have that dam green lama running backwards in them.

 

So your saying 3 mm ceramic seals are the best, but will cause more damage when and if they go out. They are way more expensive too. I'll check with atkins!

 

i have had better results using hurley seals than any others, atkins included. we have used them at 25 to 28 psi of boost. try http://www.hurleyrotary.com/.

good luck

 

There has been a lot of talk about these seals lately being utter crap!
Lot's of people have lost engines with these seals. They are soft so they are supposed to do less damage, but I wouldn't use them based on what I've read and heard from people about these seals.

I like the stock seals the best.
The new seals are supposed to be even better.

1. Stock Mazda 2mm
2. Rotary Aviation (New, not much information on these yet)
3. Ceramics (expensive)
4. Atkins

 

3 mm are a waste of time and money, unless your rotors are shot. They will make less horsepower then the 2 mm, and will only provide more resistance to detonation. The extra piece of mind might be worth it, but there really isn't a need for these on a well tuned engine.

 

i agree with glass man it's not always 3>2

 

stock seals are best

 

Pineapple Racing sells there own ceramic one piece 3mm apex seal for about $1350. Thats the best price I have herd of.

 

Some one correct me if I am wrong, becasue I don't know, I am just assuming. Ceramics seem like they would be a great investment if you are not going to run your car much above stock. Since the chances of blowing a seal at 10-12 psi boost (and well tuned) are small. And the if you aren't blowing a seal, the only other thing that can go wrong is wearing out, which the ceramics don't do (to an extent). Like I said, feel free to call me stupid, because this is all an assumption.

 

Check this out.

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/2_mm_apex_seals.htm

 

From what I gather about the materials that are used in seals, a metal fin coated with whatever teflon or something, if it goes, and hits the houseing or turbo will cratch and bend the turbo, and scratch the gousing, Ceramics, on the other hand are strong, but to to their molecular build shatter on impact with something like another seal and or the turbo fans, so if you loose a seal that's ceramic, it's very doubyfull that any damage will be done to the houseing or to the turbos, due to the fact that it will just shatter into smaller and smaller pieces untill you're just talking about dust that might even make it through the cat.... The drawback from what I understand is price, Ceramics are MUCH more expensive, than standard apex seals, and are typically used in race applications due to their stength, and the fact that they rebuild the motor anually, and if something goes wrong, they don't have to scap houseings and or turbos....

Please correct me if I'm wrong here...

 

There would be no point. Close to stock cars almost always die of coolant seal failure, not apex seal failure....

 

ceramic is hard and that's why it's used for high hp applications.

but b/c it's hard it's also brittle much like a file.

if it's close to stock just use the cheaper stock seals. They usually only break when something wrong is done to them

 

Hey Artguy, how are the Ianetti 3mm's holding up?

 

good info, but from what i hear, stock is the best.

also 3piece apex seals are better than the 1 or 2 piece.

i want to run at least 400-500 whp, im hoping these seals aer good enough to handle that.

anyone who has high whp that knows something about which are the best seals to get?

also i hear thats the atkins can only handle to about 15 psi, and begin to melt.

and the stock ones can handle over 25psi.

i dunno guys but the stock ones seem better to me.



ive seen these seals, not to sure how good they are yet.

 

I have heard Iannetti's .. these are ceramic seals.. Apprently they are over 200 per seal.. Le Man cars use them..

 

iannetti

I took this pic at Jim Downing's shop.. This is what they use on 4 rotor racing car.

 

ive heard 360 per seal.

 

the Atkins seals don't take well to high EGT's...not high boost. Lots of BP rotary's running 1.8 on big turbo's here in Japan running atkins seals.

I just blew the rotary aviation seals. I'll be pulling the engine apart this weekend to find results with pictures. I went lean I believe and that's what caused it to blow(11.8 a/f)

 

Though you claim that, do you have any factual data to back it up? I'm not denying that your statement is false, I am just interested in seeing some numbers.