Bare block, Single turbo with factory ecu.
03-08-05, 03:14 PM
#1
mashi_tuner
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Bare block, Single turbo with factory ecu.
Hi everyone, Im sorry if this has been covered, but searching didnt lead to anything.
Im and FC guy that uses aftermarket ems, so the factory FD engine management is pretty foriegn to me.
I am rebuilding/single turboing my friends FD right now. So far the engine is out and I need to eliminate every sensor/solenoid that I can and still have the factory ecu run the car at least for a month or two until he buys a PFC. So I need to know
1- can the factory speed density system run a t4 at low boost? I have a wideband and will be watching it closely.
2- what sensors does the factory ecu need to keep the engine running. There are plenty of FC writeups for removing the factory "rats nest", but I cannot find one for the FD3s. PS/AC/emissions will all be gone. incl. air pump.
A link, or just any advice would help me out greatly.
Im and FC guy that uses aftermarket ems, so the factory FD engine management is pretty foriegn to me.
I am rebuilding/single turboing my friends FD right now. So far the engine is out and I need to eliminate every sensor/solenoid that I can and still have the factory ecu run the car at least for a month or two until he buys a PFC. So I need to know
1- can the factory speed density system run a t4 at low boost? I have a wideband and will be watching it closely.
2- what sensors does the factory ecu need to keep the engine running. There are plenty of FC writeups for removing the factory "rats nest", but I cannot find one for the FD3s. PS/AC/emissions will all be gone. incl. air pump.
A link, or just any advice would help me out greatly.
03-08-05, 03:25 PM
#2
I'm not 100% on this.. but when you get rid of all the solenoids, the stock ecu will start reading codes and will run the car like ****. This acturally happened to this car I was checking out. He was running t04 with pettit unlimited.. after getting rid of the solenoids, he's car bucked and ran like crap. I put pfc and ran completely fine.. so, I don't recommend getting rid of the solenoids.. if you are going to go with stock ecu.. If he has money to go single, he should be able to get pfc.. they went down in price recently.
03-08-05, 03:26 PM
#3
RX-7 Bad Ass
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You can easily run the car with just the factory ECU, provided you just simply keep your foot out of it 
.
Why does he need to run the car for a month or two until the PFC arrives? Is this a daily driver?
The same principles that apply to removing emissions on an FC apply to the FD. But, if you remove the various solenoids on the FD, you will get a check engine light. But, the car should run OK since it's a "high" trouble code and not something that directly effects the engine from running. You can also wire in resistors to all the solenoid connectors, but that's a lot of work if you're putting on the PFC, which doesn't care.
The car will run a bit rough and have rough throttle response with the factory ECU and no air pump. I experienced that one first-hand recently when I accidentally blew my air pump fuse.
Dale
. Why does he need to run the car for a month or two until the PFC arrives? Is this a daily driver?
The same principles that apply to removing emissions on an FC apply to the FD. But, if you remove the various solenoids on the FD, you will get a check engine light. But, the car should run OK since it's a "high" trouble code and not something that directly effects the engine from running. You can also wire in resistors to all the solenoid connectors, but that's a lot of work if you're putting on the PFC, which doesn't care.
The car will run a bit rough and have rough throttle response with the factory ECU and no air pump. I experienced that one first-hand recently when I accidentally blew my air pump fuse.
Dale
03-08-05, 03:36 PM
#4
No it's not Turbo'd
Getting it to idle properly is going to be a pita.... without airpump, remember to adjust the idle, not the fast idle... Fast Idle is the screw at the throttle body, leavs it alone... the one to adjust has a tiny hole on the Elbow (usually replaced with the greddy variety) either way, the piece before the throttle body, has a small screw hole on the bottom, you have to feel for it, it's not viewable without a mirror....
Another note is, I'd prop the wastegate door wide open, untill you get the Power FC. you could technically run 10 PSI, on the stock system, but even then Pressure is not equal volume, and with a bigger turbo you're increasing volume.... and that could lead to a lean condition, if you can't prop the wastegate open, make sure you get a low pressure spring, 3-7 psi. that way you can let it manage boost. Remember the spring only controlls minimum boost, so later you can always turn it up with Profec, or whatever...
Ideally, you shouldn't get into a single project half assed, you reall need to have the fuel, and ecu to support this move, that's why it's not cheap to do, but be weary, a rebuild = 4-6 PFC's .... Patience is the name of the safe rotary owner....
do I know that one.... waited 15 Mo. now to go single, and now I've been waiting 2-3 Mo. to get a slot with the mechanic, just to find out the tuner's going to Japan, and will be back next week 
so I wait... 
Another note is, I'd prop the wastegate door wide open, untill you get the Power FC. you could technically run 10 PSI, on the stock system, but even then Pressure is not equal volume, and with a bigger turbo you're increasing volume.... and that could lead to a lean condition, if you can't prop the wastegate open, make sure you get a low pressure spring, 3-7 psi. that way you can let it manage boost. Remember the spring only controlls minimum boost, so later you can always turn it up with Profec, or whatever...
Ideally, you shouldn't get into a single project half assed, you reall need to have the fuel, and ecu to support this move, that's why it's not cheap to do, but be weary, a rebuild = 4-6 PFC's .... Patience is the name of the safe rotary owner....
do I know that one.... waited 15 Mo. now to go single, and now I've been waiting 2-3 Mo. to get a slot with the mechanic, just to find out the tuner's going to Japan, and will be back next week so I wait...
03-08-05, 03:52 PM
#5
development
FWIW - I've been lugging a single around close to stock boost levels, while the car was quick...running that bitch at 16psi is a whole new ball game!!!
now lugging around has a new meaning...
point is...if its going to be worth your time and money, do it right. Stock ECU and stock twins will give you the best performance...THEY WERE ENGINEERED TOGETHER PEOPLE!!!
now lugging around has a new meaning...
point is...if its going to be worth your time and money, do it right. Stock ECU and stock twins will give you the best performance...THEY WERE ENGINEERED TOGETHER PEOPLE!!!
03-08-05, 04:17 PM
#6
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Ok, thanks for the info. I just ran into another problem. The tranny wont separate from the engine. It comes off about 1 inch then its stuck. In the FC it just slid right out. Any ideas?
03-08-05, 04:25 PM
#7
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put the engine back on the bellhousing. the clutch needs to be seperated from the T.O. bearing. do a search for a vid. written explanation will not help much. but basicly you need to pull the slave push the fork in toward the clutch and through the inspection cover pry out the T.O. with a long flat screwdriver. if you put it in the gap and then twist it like a screw it will pop right out
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03-09-05, 07:38 AM
#10
development
Originally Posted by chris_stampe
Thank you, came out quite easily. Tearing the motor down for porting/rebuilding tomorrow. Ill post up with pics or any other questions i come up with.
03-09-05, 08:14 AM
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Just don't drive the car with all those mods on the stock ECU. The motor will not even last about a day. Do thing right the first time and have everything you need to run the car properly. Just because you put a single and are running at the stock boost level doesn't mean is the same. A single turbo upgrade at 10 psi is not the same as the stock twin system at 10 psi. That single is moving more air at 10 psi than the stockers. I would wait till your friend has the pfc.
03-09-05, 08:23 AM
#12
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Originally Posted by hondasr4kids
Just don't drive the car with all those mods on the stock ECU. The motor will not even last about a day. Do thing right the first time and have everything you need to run the car properly. Just because you put a single and are running at the stock boost level doesn't mean is the same. A single turbo upgrade at 10 psi is not the same as the stock twin system at 10 psi. That single is moving more air at 10 psi than the stockers. I would wait till your friend has the pfc.
Dale
03-09-05, 05:49 PM
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that is the plan, and it will have a wideband on it the entire time. 6 psi spring
Ok, two more questions:
will a 70 degree streetport using my modded rb template be about right. This will be running a massive turbo, gt40 series, not decided yet. No on the bridge or half bridge.
secondly, on FC's everyone takes out the 2nd pair of baffles on the secondaries in the throttle body, I noticed that there is a 2nd pair on FDs too, but that they are in the upper intake manifold and controlled by some sort of boost solenoid looking device. Should I remove these or just leave them in?
Ok, two more questions:
will a 70 degree streetport using my modded rb template be about right. This will be running a massive turbo, gt40 series, not decided yet. No on the bridge or half bridge.
secondly, on FC's everyone takes out the 2nd pair of baffles on the secondaries in the throttle body, I noticed that there is a 2nd pair on FDs too, but that they are in the upper intake manifold and controlled by some sort of boost solenoid looking device. Should I remove these or just leave them in?
03-09-05, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chris_stampe
that is the plan, and it will have a wideband on it the entire time. 6 psi spring
Ok, two more questions:
will a 70 degree streetport using my modded rb template be about right. This will be running a massive turbo, gt40 series, not decided yet. No on the bridge or half bridge.
secondly, on FC's everyone takes out the 2nd pair of baffles on the secondaries in the throttle body, I noticed that there is a 2nd pair on FDs too, but that they are in the upper intake manifold and controlled by some sort of boost solenoid looking device. Should I remove these or just leave them in?
Ok, two more questions:
will a 70 degree streetport using my modded rb template be about right. This will be running a massive turbo, gt40 series, not decided yet. No on the bridge or half bridge.
secondly, on FC's everyone takes out the 2nd pair of baffles on the secondaries in the throttle body, I noticed that there is a 2nd pair on FDs too, but that they are in the upper intake manifold and controlled by some sort of boost solenoid looking device. Should I remove these or just leave them in?
03-10-05, 02:11 AM
#16
No it's not Turbo'd
Yes, it's common, again for people who know rotaries, need to warm up before you put your foot to the floor... It's a sefety device to keep you from running too much power too soon. Once they're removed, no safety net.... so make sure your buddy knows how to warm up a car, or else .....
A fool and his money .......
A fool and his money .......
