Ok, I hate this car. I wish it would run so I could drive it off of a cliff!

The ignition switch is not bad. After thinking about it the switch was replaced right before I got it (along with all the locks). Then I tested it some more and foudn out that the blue relay by the drivers left foot (it's a normally closed relay) was breaking connection when the key was turned to start. So I bypassed the relay, so that the large blue with white stripe wire was getting power when the key was in the start position. Last thing along the line before this power gets to the starter is the clutch switch. However I don't have power at the clutch switch. Just dandy isn't it?

Also I just checked the commander befor commign in for the night, and the water temp sensor nows shows a malfunction. Seriously I'm on my last nerve with this car.

I can put up with having to do work on a car but WTF. And good luck using a wiring diagram, half the wires aren't the right color. Our manual sucks, I wish Hanes made one for us, it would be better than our FSM!

 

Ok hold on buddy, take a deep breath.

Can you get the starter to turn by pushing the clutch in and turning the key to the start position?

If not keep pushing the clutch in and out while holding the key in the start position, the starter will turn after a few trys. If not, hold the clutch down and turn the key to the start position over and over tell the starter kicks. Trust me this will work unless the ignition switch fail completely. I have to do this every third time with mine. It usually starts after a few clutch kicks.

So when you checked the commander for the last time before you called it quits for the night, the only sensor you saw that was highlighted was the water temp sensor? Or was the water temp sensor now highlighted with all the other sensors?

Sorry, every Haynes manual I've ever come across has been ****. I get more and further with the wiring diagrams out of the FSM then I ever do with the Haynes. But yes the color codes are sometimes a little off or the colors on the wires are faded so that makes it difficult.

If it is the clutch switch you can short it and bypass it, I'll search later for you or you can give it a shot.

But if all the sensors are still highlighted like I think they are, then something went very wrong with deleting the emissions items or hooking up the PFC. After three engine rebuilds and removals I have never seen all the sensors highlighted. That is your problem.

You need to check grounds and all other connections to the ECU. I would start by tracing back injector wires, CAS wires and many other sensors to make sure you have continuity between the sensors themselves and the ECU. Then verify voltages. Also double check the way to delete all the emissions items. Then double check the way you did it and your rework.

The ECU thinks all the sensors are bad and it doesn't know what to do. Unless I mis read something.

 

I don't know the price, but you are correct about that being a side problem and not the main issue.


Don't know about the starter button. But I don't think turning the key to the start position breaks the continuity between 12 volts and the on position. I believe this because the car is always in the on position to run, drive and power all the components for the car. So all the car is powered at that point. The start position is only used to turn the starter motor. That is why you see your dash lights, fuel pump and many others turn on when the key is in the on position.

 

You have a lot of crazy stuff going on and it's hard to follow but a bad coolant temp sensor would cause your original problem. the car dying after starting. It is a "high authority" sensor until the motor is warmed up.

If it's not working, by default it tells the ecu the coolant is 170 degrees, which might not give you enough enrichment with a cold start to keep the car running.

 

I'm wondering if the starting problem is related to the other problems. My ignition switch is fine, I've checked past the switch on it's circuit and it is sending power to the relay. The thing is the starter cut relay is getting the power, but then the relay (which is a normally closed relay) is getting it's power to it's coil which breaks the circuit, so I bypassed it. Then the power should go through the clutch switch but it doesn't get there!

My clutch switch and ignition switch are working. These are not the problem.

I have a thick blue with white striped wire carrying the power into the engine bay somewhere and then it should go to one side of the clutch switch. The other side of the clutch switch should go to the starter. So if I apply power to the side of the clutch switch the starter should turn.

Also it's not the starter, when I run a jumper right to it from the battery it starts the car.

 

i think the clicking might be the relay for the fuel pump. usually the pump primes when u turn the key to the on position so there is fuel in the lines.

So the car doesnt smoke at all when the car is started?

 

no this clicking continued even when the key stayed in the ON position, and it was coming from the are by my foot. It seems that the ECU controls the starter cut relay, so maybe this is again an ECU grounding issue. Whatever it is it just started yesterday. The car had started fine for the past week. Also the relay isn't the only problem, because once bypassed power still doesn't get to the clutch switch. The wiring diagram shows nothing between these two things, so I guess a burned up wire is the only was the circuit could be broken. Unless of course the inferior wiring diagram is leaving something out.

 

SUCCESS...

Well partially. I bypassed the starter cut relay and clutch switch to get the starter to work. But I figured out why my TPS, IAT, and MAP weren't working. It all comes down to 1 WIRE, a brown with white striped one. Fixed that and she fired right up. Idled perfectly.

Now to the starter. I didn't modify anything here, and it worked perfectly then went bad. Is there a switch or soemthing I am missing, here is how I see power flowing:

Ignition switch --> starter cut relay --> clutch switch --> starter

All 4 pieces work individually. Power won't cross the relay because the line that goes to the ECU (controls power to the magnetic coil) has power which breaks the connection because the relay is a "normally closed relay". Also when I just use a jumper wire to bypass the relay there is still no power at the clutch switch. It could be a burned up wire I guess. But why is the computer axtivating the starter cut relay? What is that relay used for?

If needed I can just bypass it like I have now, but I'd like to knwo what happened and why, not just patch it up.

 

So which one was it?



) )

 

the brown and white one lol

 

ahh i think is see it there.... Any updates on your project?

 

She's up and running. The commander really helped with the diagnosis. I'll be done with it very soon. Thanks again.

I just need to figure out the ignition issue now. If I don't soon I'm just going to bypass the starter cut relay and the clutch switch.

 

No hurry, I just wanted to check in on the project. Good luck

 

Well I bypassed the section of the ignition that wasn't working, got it all together and on the road today. I've just been babying it around. If Jason is in at RX7Store it'll be tuned tomorrow.

I figure I better get it tuned soon because I'm so tempted to get on it.

 

Good boy.

No lead foot.

Wait till tomorrow.

:P

I'm very happy for you, having been able to virtually diagnose and fix your own problem(s). That's commendable, and even after all that frustration, you continued working, and by tomorrow, you'll be loving your FD all over again.

Congratulations.

:]

 

Just remember - the throttle is a "ka-boom" switch. Pretend your engine is an egg, and the egg is under your right foot. :o)

Dave

 

good work, no break in?

 

Brown and White wire?

Which connector was it going to and what sensor or where did it plug into? A four pin, a three pin, to the ECU connector?

I'm just trying to find out which one it was so I can figure out why it triggered all the PFC sensors failures. And going through the FD wiring diagram page by page looking for that wire color is PITA.

Thanks
Joe

 

The brown and white wire that goes to "3i" on the 16pin yellow ecu connector. Check out page F-240. You'll see that it ties into the TPS, AIT, MAP, etc.

Yeah luckily no break-in since both the turbo and engine are "slightly used"

 

I feel your pain. I utterly hated my FD for about 8 weeks last year. Two months without my baby and i just wanted to be done with it. But then after i got all the problems sorted out (and it had quite a few) i couldn't be happier with it. I can honestly say that i wouldn't trade my baby FD for any other car...period. It has it all and every morning i can't wait to jump in and drive it somewhere...anywhere. It's a beautiful thing and is always worth it in the end. Glad to see you got the big stuff worked out. Enjoy.

 

You inspire me!

 

4CN Air - any updates?

 

It's running fine, but needs tuned. I've just been runnign ti liek once a week to keep checking for leaks and things before it goes for it's long trip to KD Rotary. I have an appointment for Feb 10th.

I'll be sure to post the results. My goal I guess is somewhere between 425-450whp at 17psi and I might take a little 115octane to test her out at like 22psi, see if I can get it to 500hp. Not much fo a poitn in doing that though since it will be daily driven.

 

sounds great, good luck!!

can you post power mods...

I know you have a 62-1, what about ignition, etc...

 

a lot more info in my sig here: