Apexi AVCR Help (Overboosting)
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Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
Apexi AVCR Help (Overboosting)
Well here's the deal. I installed my boost controller yesterday. I read the manual about 3 times and did what I thought was the necesarry steps to program it. I set the Boost to .70 kgf/cm with a duty cycle of about 40% Test drove it and at WOT in 2nd & 3rd I get what seems like completely uncontrolled boost. I don't know exactly how high it went since I let off at about 12-13psi. So i messed with the duty settings, turned the boost down, the duty start settings, turned the learning mode on/off, even turned the whole damned thing off. always the same deal, 10-8-10 in first and then through roof in 2nd, 3rd, & 4th.
I checked my vacuum connections to the Solenoid. All the readings coming from the sensors seem to be right(RPM, speed, boost, throttle position) What the hell is going on? I know the learning curve is suppose to be steep, but this is ridiculous.
Please, help me out. I was doing better before I installed the damn thing. I was getting a 12-10-12 with just letting the factory system do it's thing. I wanted to be able to set it lower, back to the 10-8-10 for regular driving and the 12-10-12 for "spirited" driving.
I checked my vacuum connections to the Solenoid. All the readings coming from the sensors seem to be right(RPM, speed, boost, throttle position) What the hell is going on? I know the learning curve is suppose to be steep, but this is ridiculous.
Please, help me out. I was doing better before I installed the damn thing. I was getting a 12-10-12 with just letting the factory system do it's thing. I wanted to be able to set it lower, back to the 10-8-10 for regular driving and the 12-10-12 for "spirited" driving.
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Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
i overboost even when it is off, that is what really confused the hell out of me. what does that mean?
Sorry for the delay in answering, I just got back from HIN in Charlotte.
Sorry for the delay in answering, I just got back from HIN in Charlotte.
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Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
i may have something connected incorrectly. cuz like i said before the controller was installed i had 12-10-12 pattern. then all of a sudden the damn thing is boosting wildly.
I followed the instructions/diagram. Essentially what i did was splice the two hoses coming out of the "pots" and connected it to the solenoid. then i split the line out of the solenoid and hooked it up to the original nipples. If I remember right the two coming off the pots hooked into the COM nipple and came out of the NO nipple, back to the two turbo nipples. I am gonna triple check myself, but I am 99% sure I hooked it up per the diagram.
I followed the instructions/diagram. Essentially what i did was splice the two hoses coming out of the "pots" and connected it to the solenoid. then i split the line out of the solenoid and hooked it up to the original nipples. If I remember right the two coming off the pots hooked into the COM nipple and came out of the NO nipple, back to the two turbo nipples. I am gonna triple check myself, but I am 99% sure I hooked it up per the diagram.
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Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
where do the pills need to be?! before or after the actuator? or should they be removed all together? hopefully that is the problem. come on be quick with the replies, please, i am under the hood right now. 
thanks for all the help thus far.
thanks for all the help thus far.
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Thread Starter
Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
ok so i moved one of the pills to after the solenoid, i also removed the pills all together...still the same problem. finally i set it back to the stock configuration and i am getting a 12-10-12 pattern again. the only configuration that i didn't try was with both restrictor pills in the split off lines after the solenoid back to nipples. i am gonna try that as soon as the car cools; after three short test runs you could grill a steak on the turbos.
basically we know it isn't the wastegate, since it manages to control the boost reasonably in stock hose configuration 12-10-12 with an intake, DP, hiflo, & catback seems ok to me. So it has to be something in the way i hooked up the hoses to the solenoid, or the solenoid itself is bad.
i know now why most people go with the Profec B...it's tried and true, even though it's somewhat limited in its functionality.
basically we know it isn't the wastegate, since it manages to control the boost reasonably in stock hose configuration 12-10-12 with an intake, DP, hiflo, & catback seems ok to me. So it has to be something in the way i hooked up the hoses to the solenoid, or the solenoid itself is bad.
i know now why most people go with the Profec B...it's tried and true, even though it's somewhat limited in its functionality.
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Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
ok i know that i keep posting on my own thread. i just want to keep the person who happens to know what the problem might be up to date on what I have tried. I tried the restrictor pills in the two separate lines, after the solenoid. still the same ****.
i got pissed so i got a little brave and found that the car will boost to 15psi under WOT and then hits the fuel cut.
now if i tried to get to redline under partial throttle(~50%) maintaining about 10PSI on my gauge, by controlling the throttle, I would lose all boost at about 6-7000 RPM.
Anyhow, it is back to stock configuration and boosting 12-10-12 until I can figure it out. I am gonna try and write Apexi's tech support if they have one. if anyone has any suggestions please help. thanks.
i got pissed so i got a little brave and found that the car will boost to 15psi under WOT and then hits the fuel cut.
now if i tried to get to redline under partial throttle(~50%) maintaining about 10PSI on my gauge, by controlling the throttle, I would lose all boost at about 6-7000 RPM.
Anyhow, it is back to stock configuration and boosting 12-10-12 until I can figure it out. I am gonna try and write Apexi's tech support if they have one. if anyone has any suggestions please help. thanks.
Last edited by JMunilla94RX7; Jun 13, 2004 at 02:20 PM.
you should remove both pills.
I think you are installing it right, but just to make sure:
A line goes from the compressor housing to the "NO" port on the solenoid. Then from the "COM" port, it splits off to the precontrol and wastegate actuator. If that doesn't work, with the unit either off or on, pull out the solenoid and try to blow through it from the "NO" port. If you can't blow through it, you have something wrong with your solenoid.
Check that out and give us an update
I think you are installing it right, but just to make sure:
A line goes from the compressor housing to the "NO" port on the solenoid. Then from the "COM" port, it splits off to the precontrol and wastegate actuator. If that doesn't work, with the unit either off or on, pull out the solenoid and try to blow through it from the "NO" port. If you can't blow through it, you have something wrong with your solenoid.
Check that out and give us an update
Cheese
Joined: May 2001
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From: Australia
Cheese
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Australia
STEP 1) Install the Solenoid
The solenoid controls the air pressure provided to the precontrol and wastegate actuators, thus allowing user control of boost. If you blow through the solenoid (NO or COM port) you will feel a little resistance, but air will flow. If air doesn't flow there is probably a problem. (So loss of power to the solenoid will result in low boost, not max boost...)
· Remove air box and intake piping so that you can access the precontrol and WG actuators (look almost straight down).
· Remove both of the hoses going from the manifold to Precontrol & WG actuators - hoses are held on by expandable metal clips * Following the directions, use the supplied plastic 'T's and hoses, and 'T' the manifold ports to the NO port on solenoid.
· 'T' the Precontrol & WG actuator ports to the COM port on solenoid.
· Mount the solenoid - use the rubber pad. Mine is mounted on the fender wall near the ABS unit.
STEP 2) Disconnect factory solenoids
This MUST be done, otherwise boost cannot be controlled.
· There are two ports each on the wastegate & precontrol actuators.
The top port from each is running to the solenoid (step above), the second port is at the bottom and to the right... you cant see it, but it's easy to feel.
· Disconnect bottom ports on each
· Plug both these ports (i.e. rubber stopper and tie wrap)
· Plug both hoses that were connected to the ports
The solenoid controls the air pressure provided to the precontrol and wastegate actuators, thus allowing user control of boost. If you blow through the solenoid (NO or COM port) you will feel a little resistance, but air will flow. If air doesn't flow there is probably a problem. (So loss of power to the solenoid will result in low boost, not max boost...)
· Remove air box and intake piping so that you can access the precontrol and WG actuators (look almost straight down).
· Remove both of the hoses going from the manifold to Precontrol & WG actuators - hoses are held on by expandable metal clips * Following the directions, use the supplied plastic 'T's and hoses, and 'T' the manifold ports to the NO port on solenoid.
· 'T' the Precontrol & WG actuator ports to the COM port on solenoid.
· Mount the solenoid - use the rubber pad. Mine is mounted on the fender wall near the ABS unit.
STEP 2) Disconnect factory solenoids
This MUST be done, otherwise boost cannot be controlled.
· There are two ports each on the wastegate & precontrol actuators.
The top port from each is running to the solenoid (step above), the second port is at the bottom and to the right... you cant see it, but it's easy to feel.
· Disconnect bottom ports on each
· Plug both these ports (i.e. rubber stopper and tie wrap)
· Plug both hoses that were connected to the ports
Thread Starter
Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
i don't have step 2 done. so that has to be it. i tested last night and everything seemed to be right. i will get some caps and disconnect those hoses. hopefully that will clear up all my problems. Thanks for all the help!
Thread Starter
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From: Clayton, NC
ok so i finally got a chance to work on it this weekend. it looks like i finally got it hooked up right. if i turn it off i get about 7PSI and with the boost/duty set to .80 it seems to work fine; most of the time.
the boost fluctuates when it is in higher RPMS. i didn't get a chance to play with the nepoints or anything of that sort. is that type of wavering boost normal when the BC is first installed. it almost feels like i am hitting the fuel cut, but nothing ever registered higher than .85 which is right around 12psi (though i had the controller set to .80 it was hard to keep my eyes on the road and the gauges, but it seemed like the boost was dropping and raising after say 6500RPM it would do it twice. at about 7000 and 7500; sometimes only at 7500. any suggestions. i am gonna read the manual again to see if it offers any insight.
thanks guys.
the boost fluctuates when it is in higher RPMS. i didn't get a chance to play with the nepoints or anything of that sort. is that type of wavering boost normal when the BC is first installed. it almost feels like i am hitting the fuel cut, but nothing ever registered higher than .85 which is right around 12psi (though i had the controller set to .80 it was hard to keep my eyes on the road and the gauges, but it seemed like the boost was dropping and raising after say 6500RPM it would do it twice. at about 7000 and 7500; sometimes only at 7500. any suggestions. i am gonna read the manual again to see if it offers any insight.
thanks guys.
Cheese
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Originally posted by JMunilla94RX7
ok so i finally got a chance to work on it this weekend. it looks like i finally got it hooked up right. if i turn it off i get about 7PSI and with the boost/duty set to .80 it seems to work fine; most of the time.
the boost fluctuates when it is in higher RPMS. i didn't get a chance to play with the nepoints or anything of that sort. is that type of wavering boost normal when the BC is first installed. it almost feels like i am hitting the fuel cut, but nothing ever registered higher than .85 which is right around 12psi (though i had the controller set to .80 it was hard to keep my eyes on the road and the gauges, but it seemed like the boost was dropping and raising after say 6500RPM it would do it twice. at about 7000 and 7500; sometimes only at 7500. any suggestions. i am gonna read the manual again to see if it offers any insight.
thanks guys.
ok so i finally got a chance to work on it this weekend. it looks like i finally got it hooked up right. if i turn it off i get about 7PSI and with the boost/duty set to .80 it seems to work fine; most of the time.
the boost fluctuates when it is in higher RPMS. i didn't get a chance to play with the nepoints or anything of that sort. is that type of wavering boost normal when the BC is first installed. it almost feels like i am hitting the fuel cut, but nothing ever registered higher than .85 which is right around 12psi (though i had the controller set to .80 it was hard to keep my eyes on the road and the gauges, but it seemed like the boost was dropping and raising after say 6500RPM it would do it twice. at about 7000 and 7500; sometimes only at 7500. any suggestions. i am gonna read the manual again to see if it offers any insight.
thanks guys.
Thread Starter
Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
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From: Clayton, NC
i am not sure i understand what you mean about the stock boost cut being 10psi. what i was experiencing was something like when the car hits fuel cut at 15PSI.
i didn't really try to change the boost setting from .80 50% duty. the learn mode set the duty to about 56% after a couple of runs. the boost seems to hold the boost pretty steady until i get up into higher RPMs.
this morning on my way to work i set the [B] setting to .40 and the duty cycle @ about 70% and the boost was going crazy. of course i know that means i have to play with the duty cycles and what have you.
let me play with it a little more; I am going to try to play with some of the more advanced settings(ne points, etc). also i haven't done a search on the forum for this particular issue, so I am goin to try to do that and see if i find anything. i will report back what i find.
i didn't really try to change the boost setting from .80 50% duty. the learn mode set the duty to about 56% after a couple of runs. the boost seems to hold the boost pretty steady until i get up into higher RPMs.
this morning on my way to work i set the [B] setting to .40 and the duty cycle @ about 70% and the boost was going crazy. of course i know that means i have to play with the duty cycles and what have you.
let me play with it a little more; I am going to try to play with some of the more advanced settings(ne points, etc). also i haven't done a search on the forum for this particular issue, so I am goin to try to do that and see if i find anything. i will report back what i find.
I assume you have read through here . It is a pretty good crash course on initial settings.
Are you running a stock ECU?
One thing that I have never understood about the avc-r is why is it needed to input BOTH desired boost and Duty cycle. Why didn't Apexi just make a computer smart eoungh to adjust/learn the duty cyle for a paticular desired boost. I know it has learning mode, but frankly, I have found that to be a waste of time.
Are you running a stock ECU?
One thing that I have never understood about the avc-r is why is it needed to input BOTH desired boost and Duty cycle. Why didn't Apexi just make a computer smart eoungh to adjust/learn the duty cyle for a paticular desired boost. I know it has learning mode, but frankly, I have found that to be a waste of time.
before i ask any more questions. thanks for the reminder.
Cheese
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 452
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From: Australia
Me too...I was wondering about that.
Maybe there are some delay in the MAP sensor. It probably smooth out the output.
Here is the link of the fuel cut:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/fuel_cut_info.html
RPM ABS. CUT OFF(PSI) SEA LEVEL CUT OFF(PSI)
1000 26.5 11.8
1500 26.5 11.8
2000 26.5 11.8
2500 26.5 11.8
3000 26.9 12.2
3500 27.1 12.4
4000 27.5 12.8
4500 28.0 13.3
5000 26.9 12.2
5500 26.0 11.3
6000 25.8 11.1
6500 25.4 10.7
7000 25.4 10.7
Maybe there are some delay in the MAP sensor. It probably smooth out the output.
Here is the link of the fuel cut:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/fuel_cut_info.html
RPM ABS. CUT OFF(PSI) SEA LEVEL CUT OFF(PSI)
1000 26.5 11.8
1500 26.5 11.8
2000 26.5 11.8
2500 26.5 11.8
3000 26.9 12.2
3500 27.1 12.4
4000 27.5 12.8
4500 28.0 13.3
5000 26.9 12.2
5500 26.0 11.3
6000 25.8 11.1
6500 25.4 10.7
7000 25.4 10.7
have aplay around with the duty cycle a little more and see how it goes. i know when some use the self learn funtion, it tends to dial in boost spikes, so you may have to put in the values manual
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apexi, avcr, boost, boosting, cycle, disconnect, duty, fluctuates, learning, mode, nepoints, overboosting, solenoid, stopped, working
