Anyone ever just deicided to go 13b NA on their FD.
really?
07-16-14, 10:18 AM
#27
Actually, it's not. You might take a hard look at one of the tube framed GT-2/GT-3 SCCA cars at an event. They are only RX7's in the "look" aspect.
Simply put, a tubed framed NA rotary race car is not the same as making a street RX7 NA. I'm not sure what power that engine is making, but let's assume 300hp for the heck of it. 300hp at 1700lbs is a lot quicker than 300hp at 2700lbs.
That Vette is not a tube framed race car. It is caged for sure (since that's a race group). Most organizations have special classing for tube frame cars for a reason.
Simply put, a tubed framed NA rotary race car is not the same as making a street RX7 NA. I'm not sure what power that engine is making, but let's assume 300hp for the heck of it. 300hp at 1700lbs is a lot quicker than 300hp at 2700lbs.
That Vette is not a tube framed race car. It is caged for sure (since that's a race group). Most organizations have special classing for tube frame cars for a reason.
07-16-14, 10:54 AM
#28
Actually, it's not. You might take a hard look at one of the tube framed GT-2/GT-3 SCCA cars at an event. They are only RX7's in the "look" aspect.
Simply put, a tubed framed NA rotary race car is not the same as making a street RX7 NA. I'm not sure what power that engine is making, but let's assume 300hp for the heck of it. 300hp at 1700lbs is a lot quicker than 300hp at 2700lbs.
That Vette is not a tube framed race car. It is caged for sure (since that's a race group). Most organizations have special classing for tube frame cars for a reason.
Simply put, a tubed framed NA rotary race car is not the same as making a street RX7 NA. I'm not sure what power that engine is making, but let's assume 300hp for the heck of it. 300hp at 1700lbs is a lot quicker than 300hp at 2700lbs.
That Vette is not a tube framed race car. It is caged for sure (since that's a race group). Most organizations have special classing for tube frame cars for a reason.
LOL I'm not trying to debate that that is a full blown race car not some heavy street car
it is a tube chassis I'm not sure if they went all out with fiber glass one peice front end and such . and I know what a tube chassis car looks like But the vette according to the description a GT1 car , and that rx7 was a GT3 car nomrally , But running in GT2 trim . <-- what ever that may mean .
NOW that being said .. My FD doesn't make much more then 300 hp on a cold day , and honestly I'm happy with that.
07-16-14, 11:24 AM
#29
07-16-14, 12:23 PM
#30
Also, 300rwhp NA is going to be much slower than 300rwhp turbo as that is just the peak hp number.
When you are talking power under the curve a 13BREW will literally have over twice the power at 3,000rpm for instance.
I have been contemplating NA 3 rotor, but even if I make ~400rwhp semi p-port I know it will be slower than my turbo car @10psi (~300rwhp). I have seen the videos, NA rotaries do accelerate slowly from lack of low end/midrange power.
I have had 4 NA 13Bs and never managed to hurt the engines though... BIG plus.
When you are talking power under the curve a 13BREW will literally have over twice the power at 3,000rpm for instance.
I have been contemplating NA 3 rotor, but even if I make ~400rwhp semi p-port I know it will be slower than my turbo car @10psi (~300rwhp). I have seen the videos, NA rotaries do accelerate slowly from lack of low end/midrange power.
I have had 4 NA 13Bs and never managed to hurt the engines though... BIG plus.
07-16-14, 03:59 PM
#33
Also, 300rwhp NA is going to be much slower than 300rwhp turbo as that is just the peak hp number.
When you are talking power under the curve a 13BREW will literally have over twice the power at 3,000rpm for instance.
I have been contemplating NA 3 rotor, but even if I make ~400rwhp semi p-port I know it will be slower than my turbo car @10psi (~300rwhp). I have seen the videos, NA rotaries do accelerate slowly from lack of low end/midrange power.
I have had 4 NA 13Bs and never managed to hurt the engines though... BIG plus.
When you are talking power under the curve a 13BREW will literally have over twice the power at 3,000rpm for instance.
I have been contemplating NA 3 rotor, but even if I make ~400rwhp semi p-port I know it will be slower than my turbo car @10psi (~300rwhp). I have seen the videos, NA rotaries do accelerate slowly from lack of low end/midrange power.
I have had 4 NA 13Bs and never managed to hurt the engines though... BIG plus.
Yea if your mind is set on the hp numbers, then going NA will never make any sense. You have to have other reasons to justify doing it. Having a love for knowledge will help. In the end, the biggest + is the durability because you have to be a complete moron to blow an NA rotary. Once there setup properly, they seem to run forever.
07-16-14, 04:14 PM
#34
07-16-14, 05:21 PM
#36
Yea if your mind is set on the hp numbers, then going NA will never make any sense. You have to have other reasons to justify doing it. Having a love for knowledge will help. In the end, the biggest + is the durability because you have to be a complete moron to blow an NA rotary. Once there setup properly, they seem to run forever.
07-16-14, 07:31 PM
#38
I'm busting my tail as we speak trying to get it ready. I finally finished my house so I've been working on the car the past couple weeks. I've got 3 problems holding me up.
1st. I'm trying to fix an intake leak that's shown up recently. Can't finish tuning untill I find and fix that.
2nd I'm still fighting internal coolant leaks with my poorly cased intermediate housing. It's pressuring up my coolant system and making it difficult to restart when hot. I have the time to fix all this however problem #3 just f*cked my world up recently.
3rd. The 25x50 workshop I've been renting the past 15years is being taken away from me. The landloard sold one of his aparment complexis and needed a space to move his stuff too. Well he found out that I had bought a future steel building (so I could build my own shop) from a guy who wanted the shop I was in. Now when the landlord found out I was going to be moving out in a few months, he decided to just kick me out anyways with 30days notice because he has to move his stuff in.
So over 15years, one can imagine how much stuff I have inside and now have to move all this stuff to something much smaller. The steel building I ordered back in December wont be here till September because I was saving cash to pay for it. When it gets here, I have to put that 25x28 building together myself. I have to be out of the rental by the middle of August. 
So yea, I cant risk pulling and opening the engine at this time to fix anything with this kind of time frame. I need some block seal to save the day.
07-17-14, 03:56 AM
#41
^ What knowledge actually would help convince someone to spend a ton of money to make a car slower than a bolt on stock twin car?
Seems like the opposite is true.
Yes, for me the goal would also be knowledge/skill.
That is learning to be a great driver with a super dependable car. Hard to do if you are spending all your time keeping a turbo rotary running.
But I understand what t-von meant. You REALLY learn to maximize engine, drivetrain and chassis to bring out the true potential of an NA race car. That is knowledge gained.
Turbos are easy- whatever you do will basically just move the power band around. Very hard to mess up and lose power everywhere.
Its so easy to make turbo power that gearing, weight and chassis are often neglected.
Seems like the opposite is true.
Yes, for me the goal would also be knowledge/skill.
That is learning to be a great driver with a super dependable car. Hard to do if you are spending all your time keeping a turbo rotary running.
But I understand what t-von meant. You REALLY learn to maximize engine, drivetrain and chassis to bring out the true potential of an NA race car. That is knowledge gained.
Turbos are easy- whatever you do will basically just move the power band around. Very hard to mess up and lose power everywhere.
Its so easy to make turbo power that gearing, weight and chassis are often neglected.
07-17-14, 07:30 AM
#42
^ Exactly on so many levels! There is an extreme amount of fine tuning involved in NA setups. Now this thread is about NA 13B in fd chassis. Personally I could never do such a thing considering that it would mean removing a very capable turbo charged engine and installing something that makes far less torque. If this were the fb or fc section then yes because you have NA versions already that you can improve on. I dont think anyone who drives a turbo fc would ever remove that engine to install a NA 6 port in it's place (unless they had some crazy experiment to try out). Same here on the fd. You would have to go with a larger displacement like a 20b, 4 rotor, or even LS1 for it to make sense.
By the way Tim "RCCAZ 1", I just fixed my intake leak last night so shes reving like a **** now. Now to find a way to fix my internal coolant leak so I can finally start tuning the PP part of my intake. Fingers crossed.
By the way Tim "RCCAZ 1", I just fixed my intake leak last night so shes reving like a **** now. Now to find a way to fix my internal coolant leak so I can finally start tuning the PP part of my intake. Fingers crossed.
07-17-14, 10:12 AM
#43
Is knowledge gained that valuable when the end product is slower than the original? And if I hear about reliability one more time from another 20B owner whose car never runs Ill go insane. My turbo rotary made it 64k miles before I opted to pull the perfectly healthy engine and turbos. Barring no coolant seal failure it would have easily gone over 100k miles making around 300rwhp. Car was down for a whole 2 weeks pulling, porting, building and reinstalling the engine.
I'm not going down this road again, best of luck to you NA guys.
I'm not going down this road again, best of luck to you NA guys.
07-17-14, 10:26 AM
#44
All out Track Freak!
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Is knowledge gained that valuable when the end product is slower than the original? And if I hear about reliability one more time from another 20B owner whose car never runs Ill go insane. My turbo rotary made it 64k miles before I opted to pull the perfectly healthy engine and turbos. Barring no coolant seal failure it would have easily gone over 100k miles making around 300rwhp. Car was down for a whole 2 weeks pulling, porting, building and reinstalling the engine.
I'm not going down this road again, best of luck to you NA guys.
I'm not going down this road again, best of luck to you NA guys.
07-17-14, 11:01 AM
#45
^ I have no idea what you're getting at. My n/a FD has been the most reliable thing I've ever owned. In the past 3 years I haven't as much as changed the oil. It's even gone so far as to not even move so I always know where it is. I think I'm going to name her "old faithful".
07-17-14, 11:32 AM
#47
In my area, a local guy pulled the 6 cyl out of his 300zx for a 4cyl SR20. According to him, this will save a "ton of weight and increase reliability". This thread is equally retarded.If you going to go N/A build a 3 rotor or a 4 rotor. Otherwise, keep what Mazda intended in your car. There's years upon years of information in this forum to make your car reliable.
80k miles on my FD mazda reman and turbos and still going strong in my FB with 300hp.
07-17-14, 11:50 AM
#48
^ I have no idea what you're getting at. My n/a FD has been the most reliable thing I've ever owned. In the past 3 years I haven't as much as changed the oil. It's even gone so far as to not even move so I always know where it is. I think I'm going to name her "old faithful".
07-17-14, 11:52 AM
#49
^ I have no idea what you're getting at. My n/a FD has been the most reliable thing I've ever owned. In the past 3 years I haven't as much as changed the oil. It's even gone so far as to not even move so I always know where it is. I think I'm going to name her "old faithful".