I am running the .7mm injector after the IC. I took my IC pipe to a metal place and had them weld on a hunk of metal on the pipe close to where it exits IC. I had them tap it out and there is where my injector is at. Close to pump and water.

MY question
Why on my dyno, when I posted it after only getting 275RWHP and wondering what was wrong, would someone mention WI as a possible deterrent to my top end HP. .7mm is not going to give me even 10% flow, compared to fuel. Someone mentioned too much water was being injected messing up the dyno and mine comes on at 10 psi. So, .7mm injector at 10+psi is not enough(which is basically my question).

Steve

 

Will the Aquamist 2c System work with the POWERFC?

 

I would say yes, You probably have to get the Power FC tuned for the water injeciton, but the water injections sytstem it self runs of an MF2 injector driver..................I think

 

What about alchohol injection?

 

I have heard that some people use the blue windshield washer fluid for their system. That is almost a 50/50 mix of alchohol (I forget which kind) and water. That way it won't freeze on them, and they can still use their windshield washers (if they are sharing the same container).
I have *heard* that the combustive properties of the alchohol are not a problem, but I don't have any first hand experience yet...I am waiting to relocate my battery to install the pump and get my system installed...

 

Is the Aquamist pretty straight forward to install? If not, do any of the Rotary Shops perform this install?

 

I'm going to try the DIY kit from the DSM sight next week. I'll let you guys know. ...and FWIW, no way in hell the stock, heat soaked, POS air temp sensor is fast enough to pick up the charge temp drop from WI in real time.

 

Marshall:
What are you using for the water flow control? The solenoids...?

 

Yep, pretty much following that procedure exactly. Except the 9.5 gph nozzle is a little much I think.

 

Actually you should read the labels. That blue washer fluid is packin Methanol. If you read the labels you will find some cheap imported washer fluid has a descent % in it. So if you run washer fluid you will get the high octane rating of a little bit of methanol.

Rice Racing, although your dyno is testimony to how you inject the water, I have a question? First off if you inject pre Turbo, then the air is heavy and the turbo has to spin the extra weight of air saturated with water. 2nd, water doesn't compress. I would think between these 2 things that pre Turbo water jetting would only slow the Turbo and the compression process down?

 

i highly doubt that there is enough water to really effect the compression. after all it is just a mist not strait water. i also don't think that it would do very much to slow the turbo down. also i bet that the turbo helps to atomize it a little bit more which would be another benefit.

 

So since this is an alcohol/injection system, does that mean that you use either-or in the reservoir? Or both? Mixture? Just some simple clarification please .

Edit: Found another nice site that provides a custom system and a great overview of water injection
http://www.kennedysdynotune.com/waterinjected.htm
They even have dyno graphs!

 

I am pretty new to this, but I was told by an expert, to run 350ml a minute.
He recommended I use 2 nozzles. A .7 and a .8
It sounds to me like you aren't running enough water.
He also stated you should run so much that it chokes, then reduce the size of your nozzle until it doesn't choke.
Then you can advance the timing and cut back on the fuel.

 

any 1 in the bay area using water injection on a FD ?

i would like to see it up close or in some pics please.

 

Just thought I would toss this into the mix - RE: the Lancer Evolution, 271 hp. stock, available next February:

"In addition to its three-position AWD system (pavement, gravel, or snow), the Evolution also has a driver-controlled mechanism to spray water on its air-to-air intercooler to keep the temperature down during hard driving. The water sprayer is the latter-day equivalent of a hood tach on a '67 Ram Air Firebird 400, or a pistol-grip shifter in a Hemi GTX."

Pretty damn cool, and under $30K? It still looks like a ******* box though.........

 

so what model is of th eAquamist line are u all using if any? And hows it work with a power fc... can i just add it later or does it need to go in at the time the power fc gets tuned?

 

Of course the Evo feature is not water injection, it never enters the intake track. There is at least another thread on IC sprayers. This adds marginal cooling to the IC.

That is an easy thing to do, and pretty safe, but also isn't really that effective.

Remydrm: Some people just add it for safety. But to really take advantage of it for performance, you need to tune.

Think of it this way. The engine gets the most power at just over 14:1 A/F. But no one runs those A/F ratios under load - and that's mostly because the preignition/detonation become issues - the engine would not survive long.

So extra fuel is added. That extra fuel doesn't increase power at all. It acts as a coolant, and keeps the burn temp down. Timing is also reduced as power increases, and this adds safty as well. I'm over simplifying - but sadly I couldn't get more technical if I tried. You gotta go read the articles already linked in this thread.

Adding water to the A/F (realy A/F/W now ) you are achieving some of the same cooling effect. So you don't need as much fuel any longer - and you can advance the timing a bit as well. Here is where having a really good tuner helps. Of course once you have tuned the car to be pwerfull and safe with WI, once you run out of the W you have a car that is powerful and unsafe. What's your driving style? If you like to just drive it and forget it, and have trouble getting the oil changed on time, and run your fuel down before filling - then tuning for WI may not be the best thing.

 

You basically have two choices, depending on what you want to get out of WI.

1) WI to sqeeze out more hp - in this scenario, you will have the Power FC tuned with WI in place and active. As was said, WI allows you to advance timing. Draw back? If you run out of fluid while driving hard, you could very easily pop your engine.

Solution? Figure out a way to wire the low fluid sensor (available from Aquamist) to, say, your electronic boost controller, to shut it off (via a relay, and boost will default to what ever your wastegate spring or pill allows, which will likely be lower). The low boost situation will make up for the fact that you no longer have WI fluid, and keep things safe (depending on how much lower your min boost is compared to what it's set at via electornic boost controller).

This is likely your only scenario if you use a PFC, as that the PFC does not have any inputs for peripherals like WI. Some or all Haltechs do have an input function, so this may be saftey feature may be integrated into the ECU itself. Check with the guys in the Haltech section to find out, I know zilch about Haltechs.

Of course, all this extra work is for if you can't control yourself after you run out of fluids. If you are able to keep yourself from racing after you know you're out of fluids, then you may not need all this wizardry (depending on how much on the edge the WI is tuned into the maps).

2) WI for protection against detonation, steam clean engine - much simpler scenario. Bolt up the WI, pick the correct nozzle for your app, and feel a bit safer knowing that your engine will have less tendency to knock. You will not be making the max hp possible in this scenario, but you need to decide for yourself if you are ready for the extra hp on a car with an excellent power/weight ratio already.

Run out of fluid while driving? No big deal, as that WI was not tuned into the maps anyways.

Suggestion? Buy the WI kit, put it in and enjoy the saftey benefits. As you become more familiar with performance rotaries and tuning concepts, play around with it (with pro guidance of course) and see what more you can get out of it.

Best of luck.

 

is it safe to run a WI system with out an upgraded fuel system?

 

swEEt !!!

great advise..I am sold.
guess thats kinda the explaination I was hoping to get.

thnx again dclin

 

Yes, wont cause any problems.

Dan

 

So if you choose the safety scenario and it's not tuned into the maps, will any performance/hp gains be noticed, or is it just for safety at this point?

 

does anybody have a pic of their setup?

 

I'm not sure anybody's actually dynoed with it on and off - and not tuned into the maps - but I'm guessing any hp gains would be minimal if not tuned into the maps.

I'll be tuning mine (the PFC, but using the WI as purely a safety device) in the next month or two, so I'll make some runs to see. I think my club has a dyno day coming up soon.

 

What kind of horsepower gains can you expect if tuned into your PFC?