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anybody put toluene in gas tank?

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Old 05-17-05, 04:01 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by stevemack
Does anyone know what the purity of the Toluene that is sold at Sherwinn Williams or other retail stores is? I called Spectrum Chemical and they were selling 99.8% pure Toluene at $60 per four liters. That sounds insane and I'm hoping that I can find it cheaper than that. Anyone know of where to buy Toluene for cheap in Los Angeles?
I was just at Sherwin Williams yesterday, and paid $39 for 4 gallons of Xylene. Toulene, is usually a little bit less.

I am not a chemist so don't quote me on this. But, I think the impurities that are in the Toulene are a byproduct of the actual manufacturing. I.E. Benzene. They cannot remove it all. It is also supposedly found in gasoline, and for the same reason.

There is a very interesting thread about this on the RX 8 club. Lots of good info

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=xylene
Old 05-17-05, 06:31 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Jesuscookies
I was just at Sherwin Williams yesterday, and paid $39 for 4 gallons of Xylene. Toulene, is usually a little bit less.

I am not a chemist so don't quote me on this. But, I think the impurities that are in the Toulene are a byproduct of the actual manufacturing. I.E. Benzene. They cannot remove it all. It is also supposedly found in gasoline, and for the same reason.

There is a very interesting thread about this on the RX 8 club. Lots of good info

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=xylene
idk what your using xylene for but there is a reason people don't use it in place of toluene, it's harmfull to ruber (fuel lines). I called some different places looking for some deals on toluene. I didn't know this but aparently toluene is used to make crystal meth, so a lot of places such as lowe's and home depot don't sell it anymore. I went to a paint specialty store and found it but it was $10 a gallon and they asked me all kind of questions about what I was going to be using it for.
Old 05-17-05, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cloud9
idk what your using xylene for but there is a reason people don't use it in place of toluene, it's harmfull to ruber (fuel lines).
I think you have your facts mixed up on this one. They are both used as componets in fuel. Xylene has a knock index of 117, while Toulene has a knock index of 114. Neither will harm your fuel lines.
Old 05-17-05, 06:49 PM
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/\ perhaps I am wrong, but it says on the canister for xylene that it is harmfull to rubber
Old 05-17-05, 08:15 PM
  #55  
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Too high of octane can damage a motor? This I have to see. Where did that goofy idea come from? The same place that thought "aviation fuel" was some special super blend that can't be compared to any auto fuels? Racing gas doesn't burn any slower than normal pump gas. It won't "burn so slowly that it combusts in the head." Good race gas burns more evenly, having a nice vaporization curve, and is significantly more resistant to detonation. This resistance allows a person to run more boost or more timing advance, not because it's burning slower but because it won't pre ignite at the higher chamber temperatures that come with advance and boost increases. Just using toluene to raise pump gas is a patch. You'll get much better results by simply using real race gas or even mixing a tank with 50/50 or other ratios of race gas and pump gas. VPC16 is safety in a can, or drum : ). Good enough for 125mph in the 1/4 on an untouched stock block.

Spend the few extra dollars for VP and be a happy owner that laughs when people say a rotary is unreliable and has to be rebuilt all the time. What's the phrase? "Spend a little more now or a lot more later?" In this case you also get better performance for the now than the rebuild waiting to happen that you just left in your mirror. No sleep so ignore spelling etc.
Old 05-18-05, 08:19 AM
  #56  
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I really feel sorry for you guys having to put up with 91 gas, that must really suck.
I've used a few of the octane boosters in my wrx, they work great as a detonation buffer for track days ect. Out of the Nulon NF and Toluene I prefer the Toluene because it doesnt foul plugs like the others do. The Nulon leaves a orange/brown color deposit on everything internally including plugs, I wouldn't recommend running these all the time.

How many Litres are in a gallon? I pay $40 AU for 20L of Toluene at a nearby fuel depot.

Another little known octane booster is acetone, anyone tried this?
Old 05-18-05, 11:40 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Steve Erwin
Another little known octane booster is acetone, anyone tried this?

Isn't that nail polish remover?
Old 05-18-05, 11:48 AM
  #58  
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your pumpgas tune should not be so far on the edge that you need this for extra insurance

but yeah, when mixed properly you can attain "race gas" octane values which open up the doors for a more aggressive tune, i don't see it giving any insurance to stock or properly tuned street cars though...
Old 02-02-06, 01:08 AM
  #59  
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I know I'm bringing this one back from the dead, but I was wondering what the shelf life of Toluene is. Like If a friend and I bought a 55 gallon barrell together, about how long would it last in the barrell before it's pretty much no good or not as potent?
Old 02-02-06, 01:38 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Compilez
I know I'm bringing this one back from the dead, but I was wondering what the shelf life of Toluene is. Like If a friend and I bought a 55 gallon barrell together, about how long would it last in the barrell before it's pretty much no good or not as potent?
I found this info... http://www.bergdahl.com/Lord%20459T.htm but it seems like a short amount of time.
Old 02-02-06, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HDP
I found this info... http://www.bergdahl.com/Lord%20459T.htm but it seems like a short amount of time.
Is 459T the same as Toluene? Before I came back to this thread I ended up Googling it (shoulda done that in the first place) and found some sites saying Toluene has a 36 month shelf life.
Old 02-02-06, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Compilez
Is 459T the same as Toluene? Before I came back to this thread I ended up Googling it (shoulda done that in the first place) and found some sites saying Toluene has a 36 month shelf life.
Oops... I guess not. That's what I get for not reading ALL the info...
Old 02-02-06, 03:43 AM
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It happens... Just don't let it happen again!!

j/k

I think 3 years is pretty good. Don't need to rush and use it all up in a few months.
Old 05-27-12, 08:53 PM
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Stumbled upon this thread while trying to figure out the size of the FD's gas tank. Is anybody still using this Toluene method? While I understand it makes more sense to just go with a race gas in the first place, have people been consistently using this Toluene additive with positive results? I'm just curious as to if it could be an extra insurance against detonation.
Old 05-27-12, 10:18 PM
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I have used Toluene for awhile with success. I never tuned for it, but only as insurance against bad gas or a possible boost spike. I always added 1 gallon to a full tank. Makes it easy to add my premix as well. I typically noticed smoother low end fueling as well. Overall, it's a great additive for insurance.

Ultimately, water injection is the answer. Additives, race gas & E85 are okay, but they only solve a piece of the puzzle.

A decent article on octane boosting, and Toluene......

Octane boosters are popular in the performance scene because they often regain power last through detonation. Sold for around $25 in a handy bottle, they’re a convenient fuel additive and horsepower helper. But with so much brands on the market, you may be fooled into thinking they’re all as effective as each other. Which they’re not! Differing chemical compounds, additives and even volumes, mixed in with a good percentage of advertising, ‘independent" testing and testimonials all conspire to confuse the consumer away from the single most important paint: does it improve the octane rating?

Let’s see what’s worth it in octane boosters.

DO I NEED AN OCTANE BOOSTER?

The boys at "The Macquarie Library" describe detonation as: "Excessively rapid burning of the fuel mixture, often caused by auto-ignition due to excessive temperatures in the combustion chamber, incorrect ignition timing, lean mixtures, too high a compression ratio or unsuitable fuel," – as in too-low an octane rating.

Heard as a faint, metallic rattle, detonation is accompanied by a loss of power and can cause serious damage to piston crowns.

The significance of detonation is such that many companies produce fuel additives designed to increase the inherent octane rating of a given fuel. The proliferation of octane boosters has in part come about in recent times thanks to low quality Australian fuels. White or "Super" leaded fuel has been reduced from 98 to 95-96 octane, Premium Unleaded has also dropped to a minimum of 95 octane. And this presents a problem for high-performance cars designed to run on higher octane European or 100 octane Japanese fuel. Japanese import performance cars, Subaru’s STI WRX for example, runs an ECU program for 100 octane, but sometimes detonates on our Australian PULP.

All engines are different though and with Honda’s S2000 2.0-litre engine running a high 11.0:1 compression ratio, it relies on advanced engine management as much as quality fuel. But it can sustain its power on PULP. And of course any turbo owner who has experimented with boost will know if you run too much, it will detonate, so improving the octane is vital for maximum performance.

We must state that unless an engine is detonation through low RON fuel, octane boosters have little use. However, in a turbo or high compression application, the inclusion of a better grade of fuel allows the engine management system to optimize ignition timing and fueling.

THE CONTESTANTS

For this test we tracked down nine different makes and models of octane boosters, two fuel "additive," a straight race fuel and a drum of Toluene. Where there were several different "levels" of octane boosters in the one brand, we chose the strongest version.

The biggest claims the bottles have is the amount of "points" they claim to increase. This is ambiguous as a "point" can relate to either 1.0 RON (Research Octane Number) octane points, or 0.1RON octane points.

The list of entrants in our octane Olympics included:

STP Octane Booster
Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster,
Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost,
Super 104+ Octane Booster,
VP C5 Fuel Additive,
ELF HTX 330 Racing Fuel Stabilizer,
Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster,
PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based,
PowerFuel Max Race Nitro Based,
NF Octane Booster Racing Formula,
NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula,
Toluene,
VP Motorsport 103 Unleaded Racing Fuel


THE TEST

To conduct these tests we contracted independent laboratory Intertek Testing Services, who would test our products on a knock engine.

We had to also find a base fuel to add our boosters to so we went to the closest public petrol station, a Shell on the outward-bound side of the Westgate Bridge in Melbourne.

Being a performance-based test, we chose premium unleaded fuel as this represents the most common high performance fuel (ie: if you start with regular unleaded, you’re wasting money!). We should add that "some" boosters would have improved the octane rating of regular unleaded proportionately more than our tests with PULP.

With a RON rating at a minimum of 95, we first established the exact octane of the PULP. The biggest surprise was our randomly select Shell resulted in a quite high 96-8 RON.

We precisely measured and mixed each additive to the PULP, according to each manufacturer’s recommendations and specs and poured each into the knock engine’s tank. The compression ratio was then slowly increased until it started to knock, gaining a threshold of detonation and subsequently a maximum RON rating.

Of less importance but still worth mentioning is the design of the bottles: since most people will be pouring it straight into a tank, the design of a bottle is important to prevent any spillage on paintwork causing damage.

So let’s look at the results!

THE RESULTS

BASELINE OCTANE 96.8

Octane points

It’s very easy to confuse octane ratings as there are a number of separate international standards. MON (Motor Octane Number) is the number derived from a fuel when it’s applied to a test engine run at 3000rpm rather than 600rpm and higher inlet temps and ignition advance. The Australian importer of 104+, Andrew Holdsworth, suggested MON is seen as a more real-world test.

Though none of the fuel companies promote the MON figure which is normally between 7 and 10 numbers less than RON (Research Octane Number).

Intertek’s Graeme Marks believes RON provides the general public with an idea of which additive works more effectively. And being the most commonly-used reference, we’ve used RON for all our tests.

11th

PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based

946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $35

Right from the start, we were told PowerFuel’s additives weren’t necessarily octane boosters, but horsepower helpers. We kept this in mind when testing both the products, but of the two only the Super Street claimed it was specifically designed to increase the octane rating of PULP. With a 20-percent nitro mix, Super Street Nitro-Based still improved octane ever so slightly (0.2RON) but the real test for these two would come on the dyno runs.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)

10th

PowerFuel MaxRace Nitro Based

946ml treats 35 litres RRP: $45

Containing another 15 percent more nitromethane than the SuperStreet formula, MaxRace doesn’t claim to increase octane, but the verbal recommendation was the same, ie: its main characteristic is to boost horsepower, not octane. For a fair comparison of these two additives, you need to look at the power they produce. As for octane, it proved very similar toe the SuperStreet formula bumping up octane ever so slightly.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)

9th

STP Octane Booster

350ml treats 57 litres RRP: $10.95

One of the cheapest of the group, the STP was also one of the hardest to find. Auto stores either didn’t stock it, or had simply run out! Claiming to increase the octane 2-5 points, in a well-designed-for-pouring bottle, the STP – used in the ratio determined by the label - improved the octane marginally by just over half a point. A little disappointing unless you interpret STP’s claim actually meant 0.2-0.5 points. Then it’s a good result!

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.4 (+0.6 RON)

8th

Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster

325ml treats 60 litres RRP: $10

The Wynns was the cheapest of the lot and claimed an increase between two and five points, again not actually listing what a "point" related to. Strangely though the 10+ could indicate 1RON and if this is the case going by our tests it almost lived up to its name. It didn’t quite live up to its claims however, increasing the octane rating by 0.8RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.6 (+0.8 RON)

7th

Super 104+ Octane Boost

473ml treats 83 litres RRP: $25.95

The acknowledged winner of all previous testing in this country, Super 104+’s bottle stated we should expect an increase between four and seven point. With a new formula introduced about 12 months ago, identified by an "Eagle" logo on the back of the bottle, the Super 104+ seems to have lost its edge with a marginal gain of just less than 1.0RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.5 (+0.9 RON)

6th

VP Racing C5

355ml treats 75 litres RRP: $19.95

VP has a strong reputation with fuels and its high octane formulas are very popular (VP?) with drag racers. VP Racing’s C5 Fuel Additive lacked any indication of contents nor claims, but the C5 additive still provided a reasonable increase of 1.3RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.1 (+1.3 RON)

5th

NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula

355ml treats 60 litres RRP: $28

NOS, a relatively new octane booster, comes in "1/10th" scale bottles designed to emulate the actual nitrous bottles of its successful NOS systems. The Racing Formula is the strongest of three concentrates and containing Hydrotreated Aliphatics and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (try saying that 10 times in a row), it contains a lead replacement which NOS claims increases the octane rating by as much as seven points. Obviously not recommended for street use, it also included with a handy pouring spout. In testing, it proved a good result improving the octane rating by almost 2RON.

OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON) as much as 7 points
Old 05-27-12, 10:19 PM
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CONT.....

4th



ELF 330 Fuel Stabilizer



1000ml treats 50 litres RRP: $45



"If you spill it on your paintwork, don’t rub it off – rinse it with water" were our works of warning. We were also told to "pre-mix" the ELF before adding it in a fuel tank (which with this test we were doing anyway) as the ELF has a tendency to settle to the bottom of fuel if it’s either not mixed properly or left to sit. This was made somewhat more difficult by the design of the bottle, which tends to drip when pouring. With some nasty stuff known as Aniline, the ELF doesn’t claim any numbers, and provided a decent 1.8 RON point improvement.



OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)



3rd



Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost



354ml treats 57 litres RRP: $23



Recommended for off-road and racing use, the Amsoil Series 2000 claimed to increase the octane rating by up to seven points. It came up a little short, but still proved surprisingly good with a full 2.0RON improvement. And good enough for the bronze medal in our Octane Booster Olympics.



OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.8 (+2.0 RON)



2nd



Toluene (Toluol)



20 litres treats 100 litres RRP: $48



Since toluene (pronounced toll-you-een – also known as methyl benzine) isn’t a commercially advertised octane booster. We were unsure of exactly what ratio to mix the clear Toluene to the fuel, with recommendations between 10 and 30 percent. From personal experience, we have seen high percentages increase octane even further, though 30 percent is considered the maximum. Available only from various fuel distributors (it is a special order through services stations), under advice we ran a 20 percent mix (quite a lot more than the others) and saw an impressive improvement of 2.5 RON, for the silver medal.





OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.3 (+2.5 RON)



1st



NF Octane Booster Racing Formula



250 ml treats 80 litres RRP: $29.95



Time for an Aussie-made product. From Perth, the NF Octane Booster Racing Formula was the smallest bottle in the field, but looking at the mixing ratio, also the strongest NF relies on an incredibly small dose – a mere 3 percent! Claiming to increase octane as much as 6.0 RON, NF took the gold medal in a surprising tie. If it were a split decision based on concentration though, it would be the clear winner.



OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)



1st



Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster



500 ml treats 60 litres RRP: $20.95



Note: Also available in four-litre container for $110



The Australian-made Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster is the top of the range Nulon fuel product, claiming to boost octane "up to seven number". The Pro Strength gained a test-winning, gold-medal-gaining and Nf-equalling 2.8RON increase. And at $21, it’s good value too!



OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)



VP Motorsport 103 fuel



Used straight fuel (20-litre minimum) RRP: $70



Purely for interest, we decided to also test a straight racing fuel. While there are a number available (such as ELF) for no particular reason we chose VP. The highest octane VP fuel which was still totally street-legal was the Motorsport 103. Working out at $3.50 per litre and "designed for maximum power and throttle response", the VP was very impressive with an octane rating of 107RON – more than 10RON points more than PULP. Obviously more expensive than the boosters, if octane is problem, racing fuel like VP may be the answer.



OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 107 (+10.2RON)



As the name suggests, a knock engine is designed to test the detonation or anti-knock rating of fuels and fuel additives. It’s a slow revving engine capable of running most fossil fuels through an adjustable compression ratio. As the comp ratio increases, it accurately measures the intensity of the knock and determines the fuel’s octane rating.



The world standard is a one-cylinder two-valve four-stroke engine with exposed valve gear. Archaic in appearance, a carby is fed from any one of three fuel bowls to allow three different fuels to be run back to back. The mixture is actually controlled via gravity feed and by raising or lowering the float level of each bowl!



Run under load via a belt-drive linking the flywheel and load system, it ensures a real world situation and ensuring minimal variation between tests, oil temperature, intake air density and air temperature are all monitored and controlled.



The engine is somewhat agricultural, however its unique ability to vary the compression ratio while running between 5.0:1 and 15.0:1 is quite amazing. The operator simply winds a handle and the entire head and cylinder assembly moves up and down relative to the crankshaft.



A knock sensor measures both the frequency and intensity of the ping (as displayed on a knock metre). Figures are then cross-referenced on a chart using the information provided by the knock meter, plus the height of the head and barrel.



Finally, knock intensity is figured in and the fuel’s octane rating determined.



Taking two hours to warm, this $200,000 engine is super robust and rarely needs rebuilding. Individual tests can then proceed at approximately $120 per test sample.



Being subjected to so much detonation, you can only imagine how much maintenance an engine of this nature must need. Interestingly, this isn’t the case as the piston and rod assembly are rejects from a monstrous ship engine (just kidding)! They’re frigging huge with the incredibly thick piston crown contributing to a combined gudgeon pin and piston weight of 1794 grams! Likewise, the rod weighs an astonishing 1929 grams. The bottom line is these engines which have replacement value of over $200,000 and almost never require rebuilding.



DYNO BOOSTERS



Ultimately, the role of an octane booster, is to regain horsepower lost through detonation or retarded ignition timing due to detonation. But two of our products, the nitro additives, weren’t specifically designed to increase octane. Instead, they contain a mix of nitromethane (the petrol Top Fuellers run) in a "percentage" concentrate. Power Fuel’s Super Street and Max Race additives has 20-percent and 35-percent nitro respectively, and the Australian importer specifically claimed they would increase power, not necessarily octane.



So, we took those two products, and the two best-performing octane boosters to MRT Performance for some Dyno Dynamics dyno testing. Interestingly, we were going to use MRT’s rally Civic, which normally runs on avgas. On PULP – even with the booster – it was pinging too much, so a Jap-spec EF Honda Civic was used with a 1.6-litre VTEC and about 10.0:1 comp ratio.



The graphs tell the story though, and to be fair to the products, with variables such as heat soak, the results weren’t as conclusive as could be gained from an engine dyno. But that is not to say the products don’t work. As our test prove, they do, but it’s not as easily measured on a chassis dyno. Plus the Civic had no detonation problems on PULP, further hampering the "apparent" effectiveness of the boosters.



With changes too small to accurately measure, we would suggest if your engine is sensitive to octane, a booster is for you. If not, try the nitro or racing fuels.





CONCLUSION



Both the Nulon Pro Strength and the NF Racing Formula rated the best octane boosters in our test. And considering that less NF was needed than Nulon, it evens out a little with a slightly higher cost. Still, both proved extremely effective at increasing octane, even outranking Toluene, which needs much higher levels of concentration. The VP Motorsport 103 fuel was an interesting exercise, and if a little more effort (ie: buying it from the selected outlets) is worth the octane, it’s a good representative of what to expect from straight racing fuel. As for the nitro additives, if you’re not experiencing any type of detonation, they’re definitely worth a try. So whether you detonate or not, we’ve found a fuel additive for you!

--Material courtesy of Fast Fours Magazine Nov/Dec 1999.
Old 05-29-12, 07:32 AM
  #67  
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I'm already using alcohol injection, was considering using a minute amount as an extra insurance against bad gas.
Old 05-29-12, 08:01 AM
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^ That is a solid idea. Lord knows we all may have issues if they start bumping gasoline to 20% ethanol....
Old 05-29-12, 11:44 AM
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Only insurance companies buy insurance on themselves. You're meth injection is more than adequate for protection. Also, be careful with the toluene and your paint... it's not worth it!
Old 05-29-12, 08:47 PM
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This thread was started years ago...before AI was widely understood and accepted. I'm with Mono4lamar, with a properly sized nozzle AI should be more than adequate to control knock. It's cheaper over time, simpler AND you get the added benefit of cooling and carbon control with it.
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