anybody put toluene in gas tank?
05-04-05, 11:57 AM
#26
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
It's not so much semantics as it is people misinterpreting your statements into thinking they can add as much toluene or whatever as they want and expect instant power. Similar to the previous post asking "what is the highest octane the FD can take", which is following the myth that the more octane you have, the more power you'll make.
05-04-05, 12:12 PM
#27
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally Posted by Jesuscookies
I don't know who quoted 2.50 a gallon for Toulene, but that is incorrect. The prices on X & T are just as volitatle as gas. Right know Toulene sells for about $9 a gallon. I have a business account with sherwin williams, which helps a little on price, but not much.
You sure thats a gallon or is it a 5 gallon? Why in the hell would anyone pay $9/gallon for Toulene? I can buy 2 gallons of 116 for nearly the same price.
Stephen
05-04-05, 01:24 PM
#28
Originally Posted by SPOautos
You sure thats a gallon or is it a 5 gallon? Why in the hell would anyone pay $9/gallon for Toulene? I can buy 2 gallons of 116 for nearly the same price.
Stephen
Stephen
The race gas that is of an equivalent octane is leaded, and close to the same price. I could go with the 100 octane out of the pump, but again that would require a couple gallons to get the same mixture, and then, it is just as expensive.
05-04-05, 01:27 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Kento
It's not so much semantics as it is people misinterpreting your statements into thinking they can add as much toluene or whatever as they want and expect instant power. Similar to the previous post asking "what is the highest octane the FD can take", which is following the myth that the more octane you have, the more power you'll make.
05-04-05, 01:36 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Jesuscookies
It flucates. I usually pick up 4 or 5 1 gallon pails every month or so. The cost ranges from 6.50 a gal on a good month, to as high as 9.50 a gal recently. The reason I like it is the octane rating of 117. I add one gallon in on top of 10 gals of shitty 91, and I end up with a 93 octane mixture.
05-04-05, 02:18 PM
#31
Here is some info from a SCCA message board concerning the use of Toluene as an octane booster. It's a long read, but does compare commercially available (in Australia) octane boosters & how much they actually improved octane numbers.
Q: Can I just dump in 100% toluene into the tank like the F1 racers?
A: First of all, the F1 racers did not use 100% toluene, but 84%. The other 16% in their brew is n-heptane, which has an octane rating of zero. The reason for this strange combination is because the F1 rocket fuel was limited to the rules to being of 102 RON octane. The n-heptane is "filler" to make the fuel comply with the rules.
Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84%
toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead
to poor cold start and running characteristics.
Q: Why not simply use racing gasoline or aviation fuel?
A1: Most types of aviation fuel have very high lead content, which would rule out cars equipped with catalytic converters. Most piston engined aircraft burn leaded fuel. Also aviation fuel has a very different hydrocarbon mix to optimize volatility
properties at high altitude.
A2: Racing gasoline could be a much more convenient way to run high octane fuel compared to having to constantly mix in toluene with each fill up. There are, however a few caveats:
You don't know for sure if you are really getting what is being advertised. You should find out if the fuel inspectors verify the actual octane of the racing
gasoline in addition to ordinary gasoline. If you paid $3/gallon and only got 94 or 95 octane instead of 100 octane you may conclude erroneously that your car does
not benefit from octane boosting.
You don't know what octane boosters are used in the racing gasoline. Unleaded
racing gasoline may still contain damaging octane boosters like MMT or methanol. A very high alcohol content will lead to fuel line erosion, accelerated fuel pump wear, very poor fuel economy and possibly lower performance, as alcohols have a less impressive MON rating than aromatics.
It takes smaller quantities of toluene to achieve the same octane boost compared to 100 octane racing gas. I have not seen unleaded racing gas for sale that exceeds the octane rating of toluene.
Since toluene is not officially sold as a fuel, gas taxes do not apply. Also racing gasoline tend to have higher markups being of interest to the performance
minded enthusiast and thus is very likely to be more expensive to buy and use long term than toluene, which is typically used in more mundane applications like
paint thinner.
THE CONTESTANTS
For this test we tracked down nine different makes and models of octane boosters, two fuel "additive," a straight race fuel and a drum of Toluene. Where there were several different "levels" of octane boosters in the one brand, we chose the strongest version.
The biggest claims the bottles have is the amount of "points" they claim to ncrease. This is ambiguous as a "point" can relate to either 1.0 RON (Research
Octane Number) octane points, or 0.1RON octane points.
The list of entrants in our octane Olympics included:
* STP Octane Booster
* Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster
* Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost
* Super 104+ Octane Booster
* VP C5 Fuel Additive
* ELF HTX 330 Racing Fuel Stabilizer
* Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster
* PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based
* PowerFuel Max Race Nitro Based
* NF Octane Booster Racing Formula
* NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula
* Toluene
* VP Motorsport 103 Unleaded Racing Fuel
THE TEST
To conduct these tests we contracted independent laboratory Intertek Testing Services, who would test our products on a knock engine.
We had to also find a base fuel to add our boosters to so we went to the closest public petrol station, a Shell on the outward-bound side of the Westgate Bridge
in Melbourne.
Being a performance-based test, we chose premium unleaded fuel as this represents the most common high performance fuel (ie: if you start with regular
unleaded, you're wasting money!). We should add that "some" boosters would have improved the octane rating of regular unleaded proportionately more than our tests with PULP.
With a RON rating at a minimum of 95, we first established the exact octane of the PULP. The biggest surprise was our randomly select Shell resulted in a quite high 96-8 RON.
We precisely measured and mixed each additive to the PULP, according to each manufacturer's recommendations and specs and poured each into the knock engine's tank. The compression ratio was then slowly increased until it started to knock, gaining a threshold of detonation and subsequently a maximum RON rating.
THE RESULTS
BASELINE OCTANE 96.8
11th
PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
Right from the start, we were told PowerFuel's additives weren't necessarily octane boosters, but horsepower helpers. We kept this in mind when testing
both the products, but of the two only the Super Street claimed it was specifically designed to increase the octane rating of PULP. With a 20-percent nitro mix, Super Street Nitro-Based still improved octane ever so slightly (0.2RON) but the real test for these two would come on the dyno runs.
10th
PowerFuel MaxRace Nitro Based
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
Containing another 15 percent more nitromethane than the SuperStreet formula, MaxRace doesn't claim to increase octane, but the verbal recommendation was the
same, ie: its main characteristic is to boost horsepower, not octane. For a fair comparison of these two additives, you need to look at the power they produce. As for octane, it proved very similar toe the SuperStreet formula bumping up octane ever so slightly.
9th
STP Octane Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.4 (+0.6 RON)
One of the cheapest of the group, the STP was also one of the hardest to find. Auto stores either didn't stock it, or had simply run out! Claiming to increase the octane 2-5 points, in a well-designed-for-pouring bottle, the STP - used in the ratio determined by the label - improved the octane marginally by just over
half a point. A little disappointing unless you interpret STP's claim actually meant 0.2-0.5 points. Then it's a good result!
8th
Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.6 (+0.8 RON)
The Wynns was the cheapest of the lot and claimed an increase between two and five points, again not actually listing what a "point" related to. Strangely though the 10+ could indicate 1 RON and if this is the case going by our tests it almost lived up to its name. It didn't quite live up to its claims however, increasing the octane rating by 0.8 RON.
7th
Super 104+ Octane Boost
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.5 (+0.9 RON)
The acknowledged winner of all previous testing in this country, Super 104+'s bottle stated we should expect an increase between four and seven point. With
a new formula introduced about 12 months ago, identified by an "Eagle" logo on the back of the bottle, the Super 104+ seems to have lost its edge with a marginal gain of just less than 1.0 RON.
6th
VP Racing C5
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.1 (+1.3 RON)
VP has a strong reputation with fuels and its high octane formulas are very popular (VP?) with drag racers. VP Racing's C5 Fuel Additive lacked any indication of contents nor claims, but the C5 additive still provided a reasonable increase of 1.3 RON.
5th
NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)
NOS, a relatively new octane booster, comes in "1/10th" scale bottles designed to emulate the actual nitrous bottles of its successful NOS systems. The Racing Formula is the strongest of three concentrates and containing Hydrotreated Aliphatics and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (try saying that 10 times in a row), it contains a lead replacement which NOS claims increases the octane rating by as much as seven points. Obviously not recommended for street use, it also included with a handy pouring spout. In testing, it proved a good result improving the octane rating by almost 2 RON.
4th
ELF 330 Fuel Stabilizer
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)
"If you spill it on your paintwork, don't rub it off - rinse it with water" were our works of warning. We were also told to "pre-mix" the ELF before adding it in a fuel tank (which with this test we were doing anyway) as the ELF has a tendency to settle to the bottom of fuel if it's either not mixed properly or left to sit. This was made somewhat more difficult by the design of the bottle, which tends to drip when pouring. With some nasty stuff known as Aniline, the ELF doesn't claim any numbers, and provided a decent 1.8 RON point improvement.
3rd
Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.8 (+2.0 RON)
Recommended for off-road and racing use, the Amsoil Series 2000 claimed to increase the octane rating by up to seven points. It came up a little short, but
still proved surprisingly good with a full 2.0 RON improvement. And good enough for the bronze medal in our Octane Booster Olympics.
2nd
Toluene (Toluol)
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.3 (+2.5 RON)
Since toluene (pronounced toll-you-een - also known as methyl benzine) isn't a commercially advertised octane booster, we were unsure of exactly what ratio to mix the clear Toluene to the fuel, with recommendations between 10 and 30 percent. From personal experience, we have seen high percentages increase octane even further, though 30 percent is considered the maximum. Available only from various fuel distributors (it is a special order through services stations), under advice we ran a 20 percent mix (quite a lot more than the others) and saw an impressive improvement of 2.5 RON, for the silver medal.
1st
NF Octane Booster Racing Formula
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
Time for an Aussie-made product. From Perth, the NF Octane Booster Racing Formula was the smallest bottle in the field, but looking at the mixing ratio, also
the strongest NF relies on an incredibly small dose - a mere 3 percent! Claiming to increase octane as much as 6.0 RON, NF took the gold medal in a surprising tie. If it were a split decision based on concentration though, it would be the clear winner.
1st
Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
The Australian-made Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster is the top of the range Nulon fuel product, claiming to boost octane "up to seven number". The Pro Strength gained a test-winning, gold-medal-gaining and Nf-equalling 2.8 RON increase. And at $21, it's good value too!
VP Motorsport 103 fuel
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 107 (+10.2 RON)
Purely for interest, we decided to also test a straight racing fuel. While there are a number available (such as ELF) for no particular reason we chose VP. The highest octane VP fuel which was still totally street-legal was the Motorsport 103. Working out at $3.50 per litre and "designed for maximum power and throttle response", the VP was very impressive with an octane rating of 107RON - more than 10RON points more than PULP. Obviously more expensive than the boosters, if octane is problem, racing fuel like VP may be the answer.
Q: Can I just dump in 100% toluene into the tank like the F1 racers?
A: First of all, the F1 racers did not use 100% toluene, but 84%. The other 16% in their brew is n-heptane, which has an octane rating of zero. The reason for this strange combination is because the F1 rocket fuel was limited to the rules to being of 102 RON octane. The n-heptane is "filler" to make the fuel comply with the rules.
Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84%
toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead
to poor cold start and running characteristics.
Q: Why not simply use racing gasoline or aviation fuel?
A1: Most types of aviation fuel have very high lead content, which would rule out cars equipped with catalytic converters. Most piston engined aircraft burn leaded fuel. Also aviation fuel has a very different hydrocarbon mix to optimize volatility
properties at high altitude.
A2: Racing gasoline could be a much more convenient way to run high octane fuel compared to having to constantly mix in toluene with each fill up. There are, however a few caveats:
You don't know for sure if you are really getting what is being advertised. You should find out if the fuel inspectors verify the actual octane of the racing
gasoline in addition to ordinary gasoline. If you paid $3/gallon and only got 94 or 95 octane instead of 100 octane you may conclude erroneously that your car does
not benefit from octane boosting.
You don't know what octane boosters are used in the racing gasoline. Unleaded
racing gasoline may still contain damaging octane boosters like MMT or methanol. A very high alcohol content will lead to fuel line erosion, accelerated fuel pump wear, very poor fuel economy and possibly lower performance, as alcohols have a less impressive MON rating than aromatics.
It takes smaller quantities of toluene to achieve the same octane boost compared to 100 octane racing gas. I have not seen unleaded racing gas for sale that exceeds the octane rating of toluene.
Since toluene is not officially sold as a fuel, gas taxes do not apply. Also racing gasoline tend to have higher markups being of interest to the performance
minded enthusiast and thus is very likely to be more expensive to buy and use long term than toluene, which is typically used in more mundane applications like
paint thinner.
THE CONTESTANTS
For this test we tracked down nine different makes and models of octane boosters, two fuel "additive," a straight race fuel and a drum of Toluene. Where there were several different "levels" of octane boosters in the one brand, we chose the strongest version.
The biggest claims the bottles have is the amount of "points" they claim to ncrease. This is ambiguous as a "point" can relate to either 1.0 RON (Research
Octane Number) octane points, or 0.1RON octane points.
The list of entrants in our octane Olympics included:
* STP Octane Booster
* Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster
* Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost
* Super 104+ Octane Booster
* VP C5 Fuel Additive
* ELF HTX 330 Racing Fuel Stabilizer
* Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster
* PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based
* PowerFuel Max Race Nitro Based
* NF Octane Booster Racing Formula
* NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula
* Toluene
* VP Motorsport 103 Unleaded Racing Fuel
THE TEST
To conduct these tests we contracted independent laboratory Intertek Testing Services, who would test our products on a knock engine.
We had to also find a base fuel to add our boosters to so we went to the closest public petrol station, a Shell on the outward-bound side of the Westgate Bridge
in Melbourne.
Being a performance-based test, we chose premium unleaded fuel as this represents the most common high performance fuel (ie: if you start with regular
unleaded, you're wasting money!). We should add that "some" boosters would have improved the octane rating of regular unleaded proportionately more than our tests with PULP.
With a RON rating at a minimum of 95, we first established the exact octane of the PULP. The biggest surprise was our randomly select Shell resulted in a quite high 96-8 RON.
We precisely measured and mixed each additive to the PULP, according to each manufacturer's recommendations and specs and poured each into the knock engine's tank. The compression ratio was then slowly increased until it started to knock, gaining a threshold of detonation and subsequently a maximum RON rating.
THE RESULTS
BASELINE OCTANE 96.8
11th
PowerFuel Super Street Nitro Based
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
Right from the start, we were told PowerFuel's additives weren't necessarily octane boosters, but horsepower helpers. We kept this in mind when testing
both the products, but of the two only the Super Street claimed it was specifically designed to increase the octane rating of PULP. With a 20-percent nitro mix, Super Street Nitro-Based still improved octane ever so slightly (0.2RON) but the real test for these two would come on the dyno runs.
10th
PowerFuel MaxRace Nitro Based
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.0 (+0.2 RON)
Containing another 15 percent more nitromethane than the SuperStreet formula, MaxRace doesn't claim to increase octane, but the verbal recommendation was the
same, ie: its main characteristic is to boost horsepower, not octane. For a fair comparison of these two additives, you need to look at the power they produce. As for octane, it proved very similar toe the SuperStreet formula bumping up octane ever so slightly.
9th
STP Octane Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.4 (+0.6 RON)
One of the cheapest of the group, the STP was also one of the hardest to find. Auto stores either didn't stock it, or had simply run out! Claiming to increase the octane 2-5 points, in a well-designed-for-pouring bottle, the STP - used in the ratio determined by the label - improved the octane marginally by just over
half a point. A little disappointing unless you interpret STP's claim actually meant 0.2-0.5 points. Then it's a good result!
8th
Wynns Octane 10+ Power Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.6 (+0.8 RON)
The Wynns was the cheapest of the lot and claimed an increase between two and five points, again not actually listing what a "point" related to. Strangely though the 10+ could indicate 1 RON and if this is the case going by our tests it almost lived up to its name. It didn't quite live up to its claims however, increasing the octane rating by 0.8 RON.
7th
Super 104+ Octane Boost
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 97.5 (+0.9 RON)
The acknowledged winner of all previous testing in this country, Super 104+'s bottle stated we should expect an increase between four and seven point. With
a new formula introduced about 12 months ago, identified by an "Eagle" logo on the back of the bottle, the Super 104+ seems to have lost its edge with a marginal gain of just less than 1.0 RON.
6th
VP Racing C5
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.1 (+1.3 RON)
VP has a strong reputation with fuels and its high octane formulas are very popular (VP?) with drag racers. VP Racing's C5 Fuel Additive lacked any indication of contents nor claims, but the C5 additive still provided a reasonable increase of 1.3 RON.
5th
NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)
NOS, a relatively new octane booster, comes in "1/10th" scale bottles designed to emulate the actual nitrous bottles of its successful NOS systems. The Racing Formula is the strongest of three concentrates and containing Hydrotreated Aliphatics and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (try saying that 10 times in a row), it contains a lead replacement which NOS claims increases the octane rating by as much as seven points. Obviously not recommended for street use, it also included with a handy pouring spout. In testing, it proved a good result improving the octane rating by almost 2 RON.
4th
ELF 330 Fuel Stabilizer
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.6 (+1.8 RON)
"If you spill it on your paintwork, don't rub it off - rinse it with water" were our works of warning. We were also told to "pre-mix" the ELF before adding it in a fuel tank (which with this test we were doing anyway) as the ELF has a tendency to settle to the bottom of fuel if it's either not mixed properly or left to sit. This was made somewhat more difficult by the design of the bottle, which tends to drip when pouring. With some nasty stuff known as Aniline, the ELF doesn't claim any numbers, and provided a decent 1.8 RON point improvement.
3rd
Amsoil Series 2000 Octane Boost
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 98.8 (+2.0 RON)
Recommended for off-road and racing use, the Amsoil Series 2000 claimed to increase the octane rating by up to seven points. It came up a little short, but
still proved surprisingly good with a full 2.0 RON improvement. And good enough for the bronze medal in our Octane Booster Olympics.
2nd
Toluene (Toluol)
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.3 (+2.5 RON)
Since toluene (pronounced toll-you-een - also known as methyl benzine) isn't a commercially advertised octane booster, we were unsure of exactly what ratio to mix the clear Toluene to the fuel, with recommendations between 10 and 30 percent. From personal experience, we have seen high percentages increase octane even further, though 30 percent is considered the maximum. Available only from various fuel distributors (it is a special order through services stations), under advice we ran a 20 percent mix (quite a lot more than the others) and saw an impressive improvement of 2.5 RON, for the silver medal.
1st
NF Octane Booster Racing Formula
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
Time for an Aussie-made product. From Perth, the NF Octane Booster Racing Formula was the smallest bottle in the field, but looking at the mixing ratio, also
the strongest NF relies on an incredibly small dose - a mere 3 percent! Claiming to increase octane as much as 6.0 RON, NF took the gold medal in a surprising tie. If it were a split decision based on concentration though, it would be the clear winner.
1st
Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 99.6 (+2.8 RON)
The Australian-made Nulon Pro Strength Octane Booster is the top of the range Nulon fuel product, claiming to boost octane "up to seven number". The Pro Strength gained a test-winning, gold-medal-gaining and Nf-equalling 2.8 RON increase. And at $21, it's good value too!
VP Motorsport 103 fuel
OCTANE IMPROVEMENT: 107 (+10.2 RON)
Purely for interest, we decided to also test a straight racing fuel. While there are a number available (such as ELF) for no particular reason we chose VP. The highest octane VP fuel which was still totally street-legal was the Motorsport 103. Working out at $3.50 per litre and "designed for maximum power and throttle response", the VP was very impressive with an octane rating of 107RON - more than 10RON points more than PULP. Obviously more expensive than the boosters, if octane is problem, racing fuel like VP may be the answer.
05-04-05, 07:34 PM
#32
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Ive used toluene at 2 gallons per tankful and 1 gallon per tank - 2 gallons seems to give me better performance. No adverse affects noted. Engine idles more smoothly. Sound is a little different too. Power is definitely enhanced. the stuff has become very expensive and with gas prices at $2.75 / gallon, youre looking at almost $68 to fill your tank with 2 gallon toluene and 18 gallons of gasoline.
chuck
chuck
05-04-05, 09:03 PM
#34
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally Posted by Jesuscookies
It flucates. I usually pick up 4 or 5 1 gallon pails every month or so. The cost ranges from 6.50 a gal on a good month, to as high as 9.50 a gal recently. The reason I like it is the octane rating of 117. I add one gallon in on top of 10 gals of shitty 91, and I end up with a 93 octane mixture.
I'm still confused as to the benifit. Your saying you pay $9 to upgrade 10 gallons of gas from 91 to 93. Thats an extra .90 cents per gallon to go from 91 to 93. Why dont you just buy 93 to begin with? Its only about .15 cent more.
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
05-04-05, 09:14 PM
#35
Originally Posted by SPOautos
I'm still confused as to the benifit. Your saying you pay $9 to upgrade 10 gallons of gas from 91 to 93. Thats an extra .90 cents per gallon to go from 91 to 93. Why dont you just buy 93 to begin with? Its only about .15 cent more.
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
05-04-05, 11:04 PM
#36
Originally Posted by SPOautos
I'm still confused as to the benifit. Your saying you pay $9 to upgrade 10 gallons of gas from 91 to 93. Thats an extra .90 cents per gallon to go from 91 to 93. Why dont you just buy 93 to begin with? Its only about .15 cent more.
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
05-05-05, 10:38 AM
#37
Originally Posted by SPOautos
I'm still confused as to the benifit. Your saying you pay $9 to upgrade 10 gallons of gas from 91 to 93. Thats an extra .90 cents per gallon to go from 91 to 93. Why dont you just buy 93 to begin with? Its only about .15 cent more.
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
I must not be grasping something
Stephen
Im in California, best we can get is 91. After that it is 5.75 a Gal for 100 Ocatne.
05-05-05, 11:37 AM
#38
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This is coming from a GN owner, just get an alky injection kit and be done w/ it. There are GN guys running faster on 93 gas and an alky kit that they are on race gas at the track.
I am not really sure where to get one for Rx-7s, but
http://members.***.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html this could be used to do one yourself for maybe even less than $100.
I am not really sure where to get one for Rx-7s, but
http://members.***.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html this could be used to do one yourself for maybe even less than $100.
05-05-05, 06:14 PM
#39
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Your car sounds differently because more of the combustion cycle is closer to the exhaust ports(burning later). For track days I run 1-1.5 gallon of toluene and like half of a small bottle of MMO or 2 cycle. I have been doing this for 4 years no problem.
05-05-05, 06:21 PM
#40
I'm sorry wha?
The only reason I asked how much Octane can the FD take is becasue from what I have under stood with piston engines (I know shoot me whatever) is that when you go to higher octane race gas I was told you would need to upgrade the gaskets on the head so they don't crack from the combustion. That is the only reason I asked. I was possibly miss- informed but this was info straight form a guy that does stock car racing here in wisconsin. On the record, I hate stock car racing and anything to do with oval track racing or american cars and pistons in general...Well okay not pistons but you get the point. The guy was a friend of a friend long story short.
05-05-05, 06:35 PM
#42
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally Posted by Xeros
The only reason I asked how much Octane can the FD take is becasue from what I have under stood with piston engines (I know shoot me whatever) is that when you go to higher octane race gas I was told you would need to upgrade the gaskets on the head so they don't crack from the combustion. That is the only reason I asked. I was possibly miss- informed but this was info straight form a guy that does stock car racing here in wisconsin. On the record, I hate stock car racing and anything to do with oval track racing or american cars and pistons in general...Well okay not pistons but you get the point. The guy was a friend of a friend long story short.
05-06-05, 10:03 AM
#43
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He was not misinformed. Our cars do not have heads so any combustion outside of the chamber will just go out the exhaust manifold/turbo manifold. If a piston engine has late combustion to the point of being in the heads you can mess up your gaskets.
05-06-05, 01:11 PM
#44
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally Posted by finky
Our cars do not have heads
Originally Posted by finky
If a piston engine has late combustion to the point of being in the heads you can mess up your gaskets.
05-06-05, 04:45 PM
#45
I'm sorry wha?
Thanks Finky, see I wasn't sure how our cars would react to it. But if anything I should advance the timing accordingly to take advantage of the higher octane right?
05-06-05, 05:07 PM
#46
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally Posted by Xeros
But if anything I should advance the timing accordingly to take advantage of the higher octane right?
Originally Posted by Kento
IMHO, it would not be smart to advance timing for any reason-- 95 octane or 120 octane-- without someone who has extensive and reputable experience tuning an FD engine with the PFC, as any ham-fisted attempts to advance timing could easily lead to a blown engine.
Originally Posted by Jesuscookies
Finally do not waste your time on this stuff if you are running close to stock, and at stock boost levels.
05-06-05, 09:41 PM
#47
apex seal BBQ
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Originally Posted by Sled Driver
Here is some info from a SCCA message board concerning the use of Toluene as an octane booster. It's a long read, but does compare commercially available (in Australia) octane boosters & how much they actually improved octane numbers.
05-07-05, 08:03 AM
#49
boxed in and drawn out
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FYI...you may look for a Shell station that is advertising the VPower formula. While most stations wont retag the minimum oct. rating the VPower is formulated to 94 or lil'better.
Before someone bust on me......I own and sell .The state Dept of Weights and Measurement has verified thegas at my store.
Before someone bust on me......I own and sell .The state Dept of Weights and Measurement has verified thegas at my store.
05-17-05, 02:13 PM
#50
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Does anyone know what the purity of the Toluene that is sold at Sherwinn Williams or other retail stores is? I called Spectrum Chemical and they were selling 99.8% pure Toluene at $60 per four liters. That sounds insane and I'm hoping that I can find it cheaper than that. Anyone know of where to buy Toluene for cheap in Los Angeles?