anybody put toluene in gas tank?
 

I friend showed me this, I had never heard of people using it but do any of you guys put toluene in your gas tank to up octane? Here is a link with info on it

http://home.cfl.rr.com/eskram/toluene/

Yeah, it's hard on rubber though. Some people think that by adding some MMO reduces damage, but I'm no chem engineer so I don't know if it's effective.

"hard on rubber" as in fuel lines?

yeah, it dries it out.

Fuel lines, diaphrams, o-rings, seals, etc.

Toluene is an octane enhancer. Aromatic compounds like toluene, benzene and the xylenes increase the octane number.

Fuel lines should be designed to handle these kinds of compounds since they are present in all gasoline to some extent. Obviously you want to mix the toluene thoroughly so the octane is reasonably uniform.

I know the Grand national guys have been using it for years along with some supra owners. Toxic stuff though...

It's toxic, but as long as it's handled properly, it's not dangerous. It's an "aromatic", so you should be handling it in a well-ventilated area; in other words, don't have a bunch of the stuff splashing around in your closed garage, and don't be sticking your nose close to the tank filler when pouring it in.
Benzene and Xylene are pretty hazardous, however, especially Xylene.

Don't go pouring a s*#tload into your gas tank expecting to turn 91-93 octane pump gas into full-on 108 octane unleaded racing fuel. It actually burns slower, so you need to add amounts carefully to get its full potential, and there is a point of diminishing returns.

You'll also want to avoid splashing the stuff on your car's paint.

would mixing the toluene with a bit more 2 storke in gas help from wearing our seals out? Iam very much considering this now hahaa

You need to be very careful what type and amount of two-stroke oil you use. Two-stroke pre-mix oil is made to lubricate ball and roller bearings in two-stroke engines, not apex seals in a rotary engine. Too much will also kill off your O2 sensor and cat if you are still so equipped.

THIS ALSO BRINGS ALONG THE QUESTION of...how high of an octane can I run in a stock engine?

OCTANE DOESN'T GUARANTEE INCREASED PERFORMANCE. You only want enough octane to prevent detonation in your engine, any more than that is a waste, and can actually be detrimental to performance.

actually this brings in a few questions, will it effect the injectors of the car in any negative way, and woudl it be smarter to up grade to stainless lines for something like this. Obviously the timing would have to be advanced for something liek this so I am guessing that going over 95 octane with something like this product would not be smart without a PFC?

I doubt that it would affect the injectors "in any negative way", and "upgrading" to SS lines is an option, not a requirement.

IMHO, it would not be smart to advance timing for any reason-- 95 octane or 120 octane-- without someone who has extensive and reputable experience tuning an FD engine with the PFC, as any ham-fisted attempts to advance timing could easily lead to a blown engine.

hehe, you said ham-fisted

sorry, it caught me funny. I would like to say I have been drinking tonight, but that's not the case. :)

I did a long term test on rubber fuel line in pure toluene (1.5 years). We just opened up the container (paint can) a few weeks ago to find absolutely no problem with the rubber line. Remember, this is 100 percent toluene. This is not to say that you wont have any problems on a longer time scale (5+ years). Remember, when you mix it with normal pump fuel, you are decreasing the concentration, which would result in even less of an effect on the rubber.

We ran the test with rubber fuel line, a piece of steel, and a silicone vacuum hose (for kicks).
There was also no effect to the steel we put in there, but the silicone became extremely soft and was easily split with a little force between my finger and my thumb nail.

I run at least 2 gallons of toluene with ever fill up, and more when im racing. It is some great stuff.

I cant see how adding MMO would reduce damage to the line other then the fact you are deconcentrating the toluene slightly, but this couldnt make much of a difference.

I'm a chemical engineering student, does that count? 1 more year to go!!!!

Adam

Boys lots of misinformation on this stuff. :rolleyes:

Just to be clear. Xylene, and Toulene, are in a word, GAS!!!! That is all it is, a high octane fuel.

I have run with it for the past 2 years in my car. I run 1 gallon of either Xylene, or Toulene, with every 10 Gal fill up. No ill effects whatsoever.

It effectively raises octane from 91 to 93 when mixed properly. I also run 4oz. of MMO in my tank. This is to lube the engine though, not any fuel lines.

IIRC, toulene and xylene are safe for your vehicle. Denatured alcohol is what corrodes your fuel lines. Some people use it right before their smog check, but it damages fuel lines and the gas tank lining if you do not dilute it after the inspection.

doesn't gas from the pump contain these substances to attain the octane anyway?

Yes. As does all octane boosters you can buy at the local auto parts store (these are a waste of money by the way).

The auto parts store octane booster raise it a few points... meaning 92 octane becomes 92.3 octane.... it is a waste of money.

I used to be big into Buick GN's and like any turbo motor the higher the octane... the higher the boost you can safely run. We would mix up this concoction with no ill effects.

Xylene (117 octane)
Tuolene (114 octane)

Do not exceed 30% mix ratio of the above with pump gas or cold start problems will arise (meaning the engine won't run right).

7 gallon sof 92 octane
3 gallons of Xylene (117 octane)
3 ounces of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) for lubrication as the Xylene has none

yields 100 octane. If you can get 100 octane from a real fuel company that would be better.... but the above mixture works well also.

Methanol or Alchy injection will raise octane, add fuel, and help as a buffer to fend off detonation. These are other good things to look into (water injection also) with any forced induction engine.

with the price of toluene and gas being so high, you just as well just go wtih race gas already!

:werd:

I don't know who quoted 2.50 a gallon for Toulene, but that is incorrect. The prices on X & T are just as volitatle as gas. Right know Toulene sells for about $9 a gallon. I have a business account with sherwin williams, which helps a little on price, but not much.

Including this part of your post:
They are petroleum distillates that have desirable characteristics for use in fuel, but they cannot be used by themselves as fuel. Their burn speeds are much too slow, which is the reason they are used as a gas compound. Try running 100% toluene in your engine and let us know what happens.

Toluene was used as the primary component in the 80s F1 fuel because the turbos were running unreal boost pressures that required a very slow burning fuel to keep the engines from detonating themselves to death.

I.E. Gas.

you can get caught up in semantics if you'd like, but the bottom line is, it is a fuel. :bigthumb:

DP