cavellm

That autocross yesterday taught me a shitload. For the most part on anything that's not a drag race, it's handling moreso than power than will win a race.

When I saw those go kart looking cars beating my time by ~15 seconds, I almost **** my pants.

rynberg

As always, Damon cuts through the BS and lays it out there....

Yes, this car will most likely completely spank an FD on a road course or auto-x.

BTW, this car is completely new and is not the car that people have imported previously for racing only. It will be ~2000 lbs and will have 190 bhp vs the 130-140 bhp of the current model's Rover engine. True, if you do the power-weight ratio calcs, you are looking at mid 13s at best, but Lotus is claiming 13-flat at this stage.

I do think it's pretty funny that Lotus begged and pleaded Toyota to use the Celica motor and then in a short amount of time, completely reprogammed the engine management to acheive more power, better drivability, and still maintaining emissions.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

It is awesome! I'm sure it'll handle like a go kart on rails. It won't have the high top end that the FD has since weight doesn't factor in that much for top speed. Of course not many FD drivers usually use the top speed at all anyway.

I'm glad they are bringing it over, car guys should all love it. The FD is cool but come on, it isn't the only good car out there, cough, Z06, cough...

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

i see your sig man... and nowhere on your sig do i see suspension work, the lotus would hand your *** to you on a platter. and hell yea a 140 hp car could run 12's if its light enough. My bike probably only makes 100 hp maybe even less and i can run 9's. I dont know **** about the car, but if its light enough and has enough torque at the launch a 12 is very acheivable.


who gives a flying F* about a straight line race, thats for muscle car idiots who dont know a flip about racing.
our cars handle like a charm, but I'll bet money, this car has a mean suspension underneath its pretty looks.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Nothing adds more to opinions that experience. The large percentage of FD owners talk about handling, etc which they have NO experience at all.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

This is supposed to be the best handling car in the world, and i don't doubt it. But "handling" is also a subjective thing that doesn't necessarily correlate to low lap-times.

I think on many larger courses the car will still have trouble keeping up with Z06s and modded 7's over an entire lap. Straight line power still means alot on a road course.

This should be THE car to beat at an auto-x though

DamonB

Oh sure they do I mean, once you bolt on new sway bars, $2000 asjustable coilovers, wheels and align the car with "Pettit performance alignment" specs from the website you just instantly become an expert driver and chassis tuner and kick everyone's tail, right?

rynberg

Hahahaha....

I think every FD owner should go to an auto-x....when a civic kicks their ***, they will lose that attitude very quickly...

FormerPorscheGuy

Lets get some facts strait here before we go on.

No one has mentioned this but the Lotus Elise is an updated version of the old Porsche 914 unibody mid engined chasis. The chasis is an almost a direct copy of this 30 year old design.

It is running a Toyota drive train that produces 190 HP at the engine, not the wheels.

It will have very few creature comforts with power nothing. It will have AC and a heater, thats about it.

Starting list price for it will be in the somewhere on the north side of 40 thousand dollors.

And don't think that this will be in large scale production, expect at most 3000 units a year.

DamonB

I have no idea if any of this is true or not, but after reading that are you try to say that because of your listed "deficiencies" the Elise will NOT kick almost every other car's butt?

FormerPorscheGuy

There is a lot of hype around this car and since we haven't scene any US issue models yet I would be very hesitant to say that it WILL kick every other car's butt.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

3150 (Z06), +200 driver lbs. 385 rwhp, thats 8.7 lbs per horsepower

2750 lbs (any tracked FD) + 200 lbs, say 330 rwhp, thats 8.9 lbs per/hp.

2000 lbs (elise), wet, no occupant. 160 rwhp or so. Add a 200 lb driver, thats 13.75 lbs per horsepower. God help if if you have to tote an instructor along that isn't a jockey.

It better have ground effects if its gonna keep up on a circuit like WGI or VIR.

xchaos

I can tell you this: I have been in the last generation in Europe and can assure you this car is for real. This car stock is going to be a hell of alot of fun and will be no joke on any road course.

I, for one, am very excited this car is coming...finally!

Our FDs are great...but hats off to Lotus for this wonderful little car!

DamonB

330 RWHP in an FD????? How in the heck is that an apples to apples comparison?

(or was that your point?)

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

That is my point. The Elise is virtually a pre-tweaked car. You can't lighten it much. They already tweaked the motor (unless you turbo charge it somehow). And with a curb weight that low, adding a driver and passenger is a much higher percentage of the cars weight, and its hp/lb ratio starts to look bad in a hurry.

Contrast that with a larger, more powerful and torquier Z06 with TONS of potential left (even though i used a stock one as an example), and it isn't pretty.

And most FDs with the usual bolt ons are gonna make at least 300 rwhp. thats still 9.8 lbs/per. An elise w/ a driver is still gonna need 220 rwhp to match that. Good luck finding 60 rwhp.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

nobody said the elis wouldn't kick the crap out of a 10-year old STOCK FD. But it might have trouble with our cars the way they are usuially run... and i don't think there will be alot of potential left in the elise.

DamonB

Boy, that is absolutely the first time I have ever seen anyone infer that somehow a lighter car is a hinderance!

All those chassis engineers in racing that would sell their momma for a 50 pound savings must be crazy!

I have a lot to learn!

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Its not a hinderance at all... lighter is always better. But, i think in a street car, you can only go so light before there's a diminishing return. You can't take out but so much stuff... and you start to get a TINY car w/ packaging problems.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

DO the Z06s really put out 385 WHEEL hp? '01 were rated a 385hp at the crank. Were all the Z06s THAT underrated?

OR since we should compare stock to stock...

2800 lb FD + 200lb driver = 3000lb. Stock cars put out 215-225 rwhp. That puts a STOCK Elise and a STOCK FD right in the same power to weight ratio range 13lb/hp.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Stock for stock doesn't mean much to me... how many FDs are still stock? Its a 10 year old car. And how many big-improvement mods will there be for an elise? shouldn't be too many, cuz its basically done for you. No way you'll see an extra 100 hp or loose 100 lbs. the way you will with FD bolt ons.

And yes, the 405 hp rated Z06s are dynoing at 360-385 bone stock.

cavellm

In a straight line, I'm probably faster than 85% of all the cars out there at the autocross. But I was probably in the bottom 10% for times on the course

Hey, it was my 1st one!

FormerPorscheGuy

Lets just wait until stories of Elise start showing up in the kill section. That is when all the hype will be done and gone the rubber will be on the road.

Flybye

I just thought of something...

How many Elise owners will have the ballz to top out their 2000lb kart

I like the twisties, but I kinda like the straightaways when I'm using up over 3/4 of my speedometer

rynberg

The hype isn't that it's the fastest car on the road. The Elise is one of the best handling cars in the world -- not pure numbers but FEEL. I remember how responsive my 79 RX-7 was because it only weighed 2300 lbs. The Elise is about the purest driving experience possible, it's not about how fast it can go in a straight line.

That's the same argument given about Ferraris or Porsches. Sure, you can make your FD faster and handle better (objectively) for less money than buying one of those cars, but a Ferrari DRIVES like a Ferrari. Too many people worry about all the objective numbers instead of how much fun it is to actually drive the damn thing...

DamonB

Well I bet if you put 50% more horsepower in an Elise (and I honestly think that doable) I think it would kick the pants of a 330 rwhp FD.