spoolage

iTrader: (2)

I have not yet done a compression check on my motor but I believe I threw a seal based on how it runs, the lack of power and the knock readings I am getting.

My motor had less than 5,000 miles on it and I am considering re-using a majority of the seals and springs on the engine.

This will be my first engine tear down and rebuild and I have opted to do the rebuild my self to: #1 hopefully save money and #2 have a fun learning experience

If I did in fact throw a seal, I am assuming that either the front or rear housing & rotor will need to be resurfaced / replaced (I drove on one rotor for 70 miles back to my house, stupid... I know)

-I was running AI so I am assuming with 5000 miles of use, in conjunction with the AI system, as well as Idemitsu premix, that the internals are probably very clean


So that is a quick over view of my current situation and now for the FAQ's

-What do those with experience in this field, recommend I reuse or discard (assuming the parts are with in spec).

-Are there any real benefits of using the "Heavy Duty" water seals that pineapple racing sells on their site?

-I have heard mixed thoughts in regards to using / discarding the oil control rings, with 5k miles should I be pretty save re-using these)?

-What is the best link / thread on this forum that I can use as a reference --- I looked and did not find any really quality / in-depth threads.

-I purchased the Atkins rebuild DVD a while back when initially contemplating rebuilding my engine

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I don't have as much experience as the guys who do it for a living. I would recommend not reusing anything which is rubber or a seal (i.e. replace the rotor oil seals for the control rings).

I haven't tried Pineapples, but I tried some other non-OEM coolant o-rings and they fit like crap. I would recommend sticking with OEM.

The metal ring would be fine to reuse. Replace the o-ring though.

The videos are the best reference.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the primary initial objective should be to figure out why your motor failed. generally motors fail due to mistuning, a malfunctioning subsystem or poor build.

once disassembled, the internals should lead you to an answer.

i wouldn't be in a rush to start ordering parts until you have the forensics accomplished.

assuming the motor wasn't brand new from mazda there is also the question as to just what was the condition of the parts when assembled. this is all pretty easy once it is apart.

mazdatrix is just releasing a brand new rotary build video that you should probably purchase.

that all said, there really are a lot of special tools you need to do the job right. you need a set of 0-4 inch micrometers a factory service manual, a Pineapple engine stand rotary adapter plate, etc etc.

stay in touch using this thread and you won't go wrong. i agree w Mahjik's comments BTW.

hc

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

the only things you should reuse are the metal oil rings, the good rotor and housing (assuming you blew the other rotor and housing), the irons, and all the accessories.

every soft seal (all o-rings, etc.), apex seals, side seals, corner seals, and all springs should be replaced.

you'll also need to spec out the oil pump and chain.

when rotaries blow they usually take out one rotor and one housing, and you can re-use the other big stuff (the other housing, rotor, and irons).



and as howard and mahjik said:
#1 find out why it blew up. it probably pre-ignited and broke the tip off of an apex seal, but you need to figure out why.
#2 Atkins or Mazdatrix have good rebuild videos that are pretty extensive and can help you through it fairly easily. My first rebuild went flawlessly using the Atkins video.
#3 I've done several rebuilds, and the OEM seals (both soft and hard) definitely work the best. and they don't cost much more than the Atkins or RA stuff.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

just to focus on a few things you said in your post:

"If I did in fact throw a seal, I am assuming that either the front or rear housing & rotor will need to be resurfaced / replaced (I drove on one rotor for 70 miles back to my house, stupid... I know)"

all of the damage is done on the initial blow, so it doesn't really hurt anything to limp it home. hell, i drove my TII back and forth to work for a week after it blew.

"My motor had less than 5,000 miles on it and I am considering re-using a majority of the seals and springs on the engine."

regardless the condition of the seals in the engine, your broken apex will have taken out --or at the very least scraped up-- the other two apexes on that rotor, so you'll end up buying 3 new apex seals. you can reuse the apex and side seal springs, but they're so cheap (less than 50 bucks for an entire set IIRC) you might as well get new ones. also, you can reuse all of the sideseals.

basically what i'm saying here is you can reuse most of the springs and seals, but at the very least you'll need 3 new apex seals, a rotor, a housing, and an o-ring kit.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

"you probably blew the tip off of an apex seal, which in turn, flies into the turbine wheel of one of your turbos, which can make them out of balance and not last too long afterwards."

I dont even want to think about the turbo right now haha.... I'll separate the turbo when I have everything out to take a lookie look. Luckily it is not leaking on the compressor side which is a good sign that the debris that passed was minimal and possibly did not damage the turbo oil seal.

So as of right now, it seems the route to go is OEM and replace all soft seals... I was really hoping I could have re-used some of the seals with the low mileage on the engine but I'm not looking to cut corners and cheap out on anything either.

I would like to research more about the heavy duty water seals and other related preventative measures --- I've had two engines succumb to water o-ring failure in the past and it is such an annoyance and expensive "little" thing, to have to fix.

Thanks for everyone's input thus far

Stanis

iTrader: (2)

I was extremely dis-satisfied with the pineapple seals. What a waste. When I was putting them in the first time, 2 of them separated from the joint making them long rubber strings instead of rings. When I took the motor apart 700 miles later, they were stuck to the housings and came out with little bits of the material sticking to the housing. They claimed that you could re-use or something. Use OEM! They're proven.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for you input fossil.... why did you take the motor apart at 700 miles?

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

I've used the Pineapple seals and haven't had an issue, but I would not re-use anything that gets crushed down.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Could someone give me a quick check list of items I would need to do a general rebuild on a short block (excluding a housing / rotor)

Is there a site where I can simply buy an entire OEM overhaul kit that includes everything I need?

While I would enjoy the process simply from a learning perspective, I am trying to see if doing the engine rebuild my self is a cost effective alternative to simply buying a reman.