Alignment after lowering with bigger tires?
#1
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Alignment after lowering with bigger tires?
Okay so I am putting in Tein S-tech springs with my stock shocks. I also just got 245/45/16 on the stock rims. Now once I get these all put on the car I am going to need to get an alignment. Does anyone have suggestions as to any specifics I should ask for? Or just have them set it as close to spec as possible. As much as I love performance handling I would like my tire life to be as good as possible. Any suggestions would be fantastic thanks.
#4
I also wondered this, b/c I heard that lowering the car changes the suspension geometry, so the alignment specs change. If I'm not worried about tire life, and handling is my primary concern, how do you go about finding the proper alignment specs?
Thanks
~Ramy
Thanks
~Ramy
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Bah. 7racer beat me to it. I've used those specs since i got the car and they've been great. I was running 1.2 neg camber in the front and saw no noticeable irregular wear pattern on my Kumho 712's after 10k miles. I've also been on track and have the car lowered ~1.5" I've been very happy with these settings for a real daily driver car that sees some time on the track.
#7
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Originally Posted by FDNewbie
I also wondered this, b/c I heard that lowering the car changes the suspension geometry, so the alignment specs change.
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
If I'm not worried about tire life, and handling is my primary concern, how do you go about finding the proper alignment specs?
I'm not worried about tire life as my car is setup strictly for the track. The price I pay is that I go through street tires more than twice as fast and that's with driving them easy all the time!
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#8
Originally Posted by DamonB
...driving them easy ALL the time!
I also sacrifice tire wear, for on the track handling... but I align my car after every major component change.
I wouldn't call Tein springs a major change but I would second the statement of just putting it on the rack and seeing what it's at. You REALLY want your toe settings to be in spec. VERY important for tire wear.
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I was toying with the idea of going to les schwab or another alignment place and getting the car aligned and a camber kit put on. I noticed that I am going through my tires faster than I should be and the wear pattern is 65% on the inside of the tire.
Is the camber kit (ie"lowering kit") wishful thinking or does this actually exist?
Is the camber kit (ie"lowering kit") wishful thinking or does this actually exist?
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Originally Posted by angelck022
I was toying with the idea of going to les schwab or another alignment place and getting the car aligned and a camber kit put on. I noticed that I am going through my tires faster than I should be and the wear pattern is 65% on the inside of the tire.
Is the camber kit (ie"lowering kit") wishful thinking or does this actually exist?
Is the camber kit (ie"lowering kit") wishful thinking or does this actually exist?
Take your car to a performance or racing shop for the alignment. They know how to handle low cars and will typically do a much more thorough and accurate job than a Joe-Blow alignment place.
The Pettit Long Track settings work great for street use -- at least in the 16" wheel column. I think their 17 and 18" settings do not have enough camber at the rear.
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Originally Posted by cozmo kraemer
Oh come'on You gotta take a quick corner here and there on the street too!
Once you spend time on the track you realize that even if you were willing to break every written law on the street you still couldn't get this car past 7/10ths at best. It's boring to even try
#12
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Nope. I run so often on race rubber at the track there isn't even a temptation to go around corners quickly on the street; it would do nothing but disappoint me
Once you spend time on the track you realize that even if you were willing to break every written law on the street you still couldn't get this car past 7/10ths at best. It's boring to even try
Once you spend time on the track you realize that even if you were willing to break every written law on the street you still couldn't get this car past 7/10ths at best. It's boring to even try
YUP!!!
I used to take my FD (with street tires) to Nelson Ledges racetrack. It was fun the first few times, but after a while I couldn't enjoy it just driving 9/10, since I have the car in my avatar that I race in SCCA Nationals. Because of that, I quit running the FD at the track, because I didn't want to wreck it driving 10/10 (the only way I seem to have any fun).
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Nope. I run so often on race rubber at the track there isn't even a temptation to go around corners quickly on the street; it would do nothing but disappoint me
Once you spend time on the track you realize that even if you were willing to break every written law on the street you still couldn't get this car past 7/10ths at best. It's boring to even try
Once you spend time on the track you realize that even if you were willing to break every written law on the street you still couldn't get this car past 7/10ths at best. It's boring to even try
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Originally Posted by adam c
I guess you only race on the street when you are pulling your trailer
I have to post new pics of the trailer. You guys are going to love it...
#16
Thanks guys for all the input Definitely useful!
Rynberg, I'm sure it varies w/ personal preference etc, but how much camber do you think is enough for 18" wheels?
Thanks
~Ramy
Originally Posted by rynberg
The Pettit Long Track settings work great for street use -- at least in the 16" wheel column. I think their 17 and 18" settings do not have enough camber at the rear.
Thanks
~Ramy
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Originally Posted by FDNewbie
Rynberg, I'm sure it varies w/ personal preference etc, but how much camber do you think is enough for 18" wheels?
Thanks
~Ramy
Thanks
~Ramy
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My guess is that the reduced sidewall of taller wheels forces the tread to lose contact with the surface at (relatively) extreme negative camber. For the 16" wheels you have ~112.5mm (4.5") of sidewall between the wheel and the tread that allows for some distortion and squirm, whereas for 18" wheels you only have ~3.5"...about 25% less give in the sidewall. So it seems to make sense that the values are different to allow for this change to keep the tread in the same position relative to the surface.
But i see what you mean. They do cut it in half, which seems a bit drastic. Of course not only is the sidewall smaller, but it's probably quite a bit stiffer as well...so perhaps between the two it equates to about a 50% change in dynamic characteristic.
I'm running -1.3 all around right now with stock wheels. That's a change from -1.0 in the rear and we'll see how i like it on the track here in a few weeks.
But i see what you mean. They do cut it in half, which seems a bit drastic. Of course not only is the sidewall smaller, but it's probably quite a bit stiffer as well...so perhaps between the two it equates to about a 50% change in dynamic characteristic.
I'm running -1.3 all around right now with stock wheels. That's a change from -1.0 in the rear and we'll see how i like it on the track here in a few weeks.
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Originally Posted by Efini_7
My guess is that the reduced sidewall of taller wheels forces the tread to lose contact with the surface at (relatively) extreme negative camber. .....
#20
Originally Posted by rynberg
I suspect they recommend the settings that way because many people running 17 and 18" wheels run a staggered setup with wider tires at the rear.
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I personally NEVER have an understeer or lack of turn-in response on the track with my staggered width setup. IMO, the rear camber should be close to the front settings. With equal width front-rear tires, I would run the same camber front-rear or very close.
#22
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Originally Posted by rynberg
With equal width front-rear tires, I would run the same camber front-rear or very close.
My front camber is maxed at -2 for the stock ride height and that is what the rear is currently at as well.
Last edited by DamonB; 01-27-06 at 10:02 AM.
#23
Warming the planet.
Do some research on the alignment shops in you area. I had a heck of a time finding someone to use my settings, I ended up doing the alignment myself. I found that some shops will only set the car to the “specified range” that’s in there machines data base. Les Schwab’s machine shows a range of -0.7 to +0.8 camber in the front and -2.0 to -0.5 in the rear, that’s twice the range allowed by the FSM. When I tried to explain that to the “tech” he said, “sir, if the green light comes on the computer screen then it’s fine”. I took the car to a shop recommended by a circle track racer, but there machine was so out of calibration I ended up with a 0.4 degree difference in camber between the two front wheels ( and consequently a difference in caster).
#24
Originally Posted by DamonB
I don't consider anything in a straight line to be racing
You are right about track driving taking the thrill out of driving fast on the street, I was also on race rubber 20 weekends a year, however hitting an occational 90 degree apex on the street at 7/10 and hearing the classic rotary hum as you accelerate away stretching its legs a bit, is still entertaining.
A car shouldn't HAVE to be driven to 10/10 to be enjoyed...the mark of a truely great car, in my opinion, is that it can be enjoyed at every level.
Last edited by cozmo kraemer; 01-27-06 at 09:44 AM.