aftermarket twin turbo
08-12-02, 11:59 AM
#26
Originally posted by artguy
what was the price?
did you modify the manifold? if not you will be hard pressed to get past 400 hp. My m2s are using the garret gt30 ballistics which are rated to 400hp each as well..thats 800 hp folks...800 HP that I WILL NEVER see because of the manifold restriction. lol
just a point...good luck with the twins...Im anxious to see how you do. I should have my own dyno numbers soon as well...gotta wait for body work now that someone hit me this morning.
jason
what was the price?
did you modify the manifold? if not you will be hard pressed to get past 400 hp. My m2s are using the garret gt30 ballistics which are rated to 400hp each as well..thats 800 hp folks...800 HP that I WILL NEVER see because of the manifold restriction. lol
just a point...good luck with the twins...Im anxious to see how you do. I should have my own dyno numbers soon as well...gotta wait for body work now that someone hit me this morning.
jason
How about having a custom manifold made???
08-12-02, 01:58 PM
#27
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Maybe a custom manifold was made...anywho, why not slap 2 gt35/40 garrett turbos in there and get a little raunchier? I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.
EDIT: Whoops, thought you were talking about Beast's car glass man
.
EDIT: Whoops, thought you were talking about Beast's car glass man
.
Last edited by Silex; 08-12-02 at 02:03 PM.
08-12-02, 09:32 PM
#28
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i can only imagine the crazy turbo lag on twin 35/40s! mine comes in this week, i think ill be happy with just one :P. but then again you know me...simple taste...haha yeaaaaah. any how the biggest ive seen twins get on an rx-7 are hks 30/37s and that job was a completely custom fabricated. i talked to SP engineering about it, and they said the customer paid over $2000 just for the exhaust manifold!
08-13-02, 02:22 AM
#29
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you can port the manifold...however the thinner the manifold the more delicate it is....those things crack to bits as it is.
m2 used to run the gt35s on their twins...it was laggier and the peak power was very similar due to the manifold restrictions.
j
m2 used to run the gt35s on their twins...it was laggier and the peak power was very similar due to the manifold restrictions.
j
08-13-02, 02:32 AM
#30
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Originally posted by artguy
you can port the manifold...however the thinner the manifold the more delicate it is....those things crack to bits as it is.
m2 used to run the gt35s on their twins...it was laggier and the peak power was very similar due to the manifold restrictions.
j
you can port the manifold...however the thinner the manifold the more delicate it is....those things crack to bits as it is.
m2 used to run the gt35s on their twins...it was laggier and the peak power was very similar due to the manifold restrictions.
j
08-15-02, 06:14 PM
#31
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You asked for it - first drive under boost
All -
I completed the 500 mile break-in period and had the wideband installed yesterday. When I picked it up from the shop all they could say was 'this car was fast, now it's stupid fast'. So with high hopes I headed out for some long stretches of road and prepared to have my first forays into boost. I wanted to start off slow, so I turned my controller all the way down which limits boost to about 7 lbs. I began jumping in and out of boost up to about 4 lbs just to see what my wideband revealed. Instant, accurate feedback is one of the most joyous things a person can get - my wideband revealed that I had a lean tip-in problem when going into boost, both under light load as well as under hard acceleration at a wide variety of rpms. As I went into boost I had afrs of 15:1 to 13:1, jumping as high as 16:1 under hard wot. I upped my maps for the PFC in x10 and x11 columns and the y10 - y12 rows from the high hundred-teens's to the low to mid hundred-twenties for fuel correction, then upped my accelerator enrichment settings in the
2000 - 5000 rpm settings from ~7.5ms to 8.2ms, and my tip-ins dropped to afr of 13:1 to 12:1. Now I went to 7lbs. My afrs stayed around 12:1. It was
a very hot day (over 100 F) so I wanted to stay around 11:1. I upped my middle-boost maps about 6 'clicks' in each cell (that area IS denoted by the coordinates 12,11-20 through 15, 11-20, so that those went from the mid to high 120's to low to mid 130's. Now my afr's looked better. In anticipation of going up in boost, I took the time to adjust the maps in the 15,15 and up coordinates by about 6 'clicks' as well.
At this minimal boost setting, the car felt about the same as it did when I had the stock turbos on it set to 14lbs. Frankly I was amazed. They did spool up a bit slower than stock, but being non-sequential the lack of
turbo transition made up for it. Also, these turbos are quiet - in some ways that's disappointing because I always enjoyed hearing the pre-spool noise of the stockers in the dp through the firewall. These make absolutely no noise - just a steady push of power.
The time had come to turn up the wick. I went to 12lbs.....
There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe the mind-bending, tire-melting, asphalt-eating adrenaline rush that 12lbs. represented. 110mph came so fast I was startled and scared. I've not
experienced torque-steer from a rear end breaking loose in third gear at 80mph under wot. Whoa. I did that a couple of more times to get used to it. The very small lag was more than made up for as it jumped from 7 to 12 lbs in a heartbeat. The elimination of the turbo transition really improves driveability under wot. I took a look at my charge temps - NOT ONE DEGREE OF CHANGE! I started at 60 degrees C and ended at 60 degrees C. The improved flow is really amazing.
Under no boost in 3rd gear I did a rolling wot start from 40mph to 110mph. I counted off 7 seconds of elapsed time (remember, I started at a steady
cruise with no boost), and the car just wants to run and run and run. At this boost level the bov finally made some noise when I upshifted to fourth. The Bosch unit isn't very loud - it sounded like someone breathing
hard after running up a flight of stairs. My afr's at this boost were 10.5~10.7, which was fine by me. My injector duty cycle was only running around 59%, and my maps above that can still correct from the mid 130s to 149, so it looks like the Nippondenso fuel pump and 1300cc secondary injectors (RC Engineering got them flowing to 1350cc) can keep up with the fuel needs of the car.
As I went home I did some drag type starts from stoplights. If you shift before 7K rpm you just miss the beginning of the power band in the next gear. When shifting at 7.3K the revs drop to 4K and you are right at the beginning of the sweet spot. 4K to 7K is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.
I am now in the process of slowly dialing up to 15 lbs, where I will probably stay as a base line to get track and dyno numbers. I know that anyone can describe what 'fast' is - I now need empirical data to back up
this discourse. We also might bump up the timing a bit in the low boost areas to see if we can get rid of what little lag there is in that area.
I'm thinking of heading to Sac raceway on Wednesday 21st. If I can't make that due to work, then the next soonest time I have available would be an autocross on the 25th or sometime early in September.
Oh, and for all you PFC users with the intermittent A/C problem - replace your engine harness. Maybe the design was improved since '93 or maybe my old harness was just that - old and heat-baked (and therefore not as conductive), I don't know. One thing I do know is the new harness has fixed the A/C intermittent engagement issue for my car. I now blow cold and constant at all fan settings. This was a total bonus.
I will publish any timeslips and dyno numbers I get over the next few weeks. Checkpoint still does not have their website up, so there are no pictures yet available of this new unit. However, because it looks so stock, don't expect to see the same kind of dramatic visual presentation that you get when looking at a single-turbo car. That's the beauty of this setup for we Kalifornians in pursuit of ludicrous speed!
Beast
I completed the 500 mile break-in period and had the wideband installed yesterday. When I picked it up from the shop all they could say was 'this car was fast, now it's stupid fast'. So with high hopes I headed out for some long stretches of road and prepared to have my first forays into boost. I wanted to start off slow, so I turned my controller all the way down which limits boost to about 7 lbs. I began jumping in and out of boost up to about 4 lbs just to see what my wideband revealed. Instant, accurate feedback is one of the most joyous things a person can get - my wideband revealed that I had a lean tip-in problem when going into boost, both under light load as well as under hard acceleration at a wide variety of rpms. As I went into boost I had afrs of 15:1 to 13:1, jumping as high as 16:1 under hard wot. I upped my maps for the PFC in x10 and x11 columns and the y10 - y12 rows from the high hundred-teens's to the low to mid hundred-twenties for fuel correction, then upped my accelerator enrichment settings in the
2000 - 5000 rpm settings from ~7.5ms to 8.2ms, and my tip-ins dropped to afr of 13:1 to 12:1. Now I went to 7lbs. My afrs stayed around 12:1. It was
a very hot day (over 100 F) so I wanted to stay around 11:1. I upped my middle-boost maps about 6 'clicks' in each cell (that area IS denoted by the coordinates 12,11-20 through 15, 11-20, so that those went from the mid to high 120's to low to mid 130's. Now my afr's looked better. In anticipation of going up in boost, I took the time to adjust the maps in the 15,15 and up coordinates by about 6 'clicks' as well.
At this minimal boost setting, the car felt about the same as it did when I had the stock turbos on it set to 14lbs. Frankly I was amazed. They did spool up a bit slower than stock, but being non-sequential the lack of
turbo transition made up for it. Also, these turbos are quiet - in some ways that's disappointing because I always enjoyed hearing the pre-spool noise of the stockers in the dp through the firewall. These make absolutely no noise - just a steady push of power.
The time had come to turn up the wick. I went to 12lbs.....
There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe the mind-bending, tire-melting, asphalt-eating adrenaline rush that 12lbs. represented. 110mph came so fast I was startled and scared. I've not
experienced torque-steer from a rear end breaking loose in third gear at 80mph under wot. Whoa. I did that a couple of more times to get used to it. The very small lag was more than made up for as it jumped from 7 to 12 lbs in a heartbeat. The elimination of the turbo transition really improves driveability under wot. I took a look at my charge temps - NOT ONE DEGREE OF CHANGE! I started at 60 degrees C and ended at 60 degrees C. The improved flow is really amazing.
Under no boost in 3rd gear I did a rolling wot start from 40mph to 110mph. I counted off 7 seconds of elapsed time (remember, I started at a steady
cruise with no boost), and the car just wants to run and run and run. At this boost level the bov finally made some noise when I upshifted to fourth. The Bosch unit isn't very loud - it sounded like someone breathing
hard after running up a flight of stairs. My afr's at this boost were 10.5~10.7, which was fine by me. My injector duty cycle was only running around 59%, and my maps above that can still correct from the mid 130s to 149, so it looks like the Nippondenso fuel pump and 1300cc secondary injectors (RC Engineering got them flowing to 1350cc) can keep up with the fuel needs of the car.
As I went home I did some drag type starts from stoplights. If you shift before 7K rpm you just miss the beginning of the power band in the next gear. When shifting at 7.3K the revs drop to 4K and you are right at the beginning of the sweet spot. 4K to 7K is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.
I am now in the process of slowly dialing up to 15 lbs, where I will probably stay as a base line to get track and dyno numbers. I know that anyone can describe what 'fast' is - I now need empirical data to back up
this discourse. We also might bump up the timing a bit in the low boost areas to see if we can get rid of what little lag there is in that area.
I'm thinking of heading to Sac raceway on Wednesday 21st. If I can't make that due to work, then the next soonest time I have available would be an autocross on the 25th or sometime early in September.
Oh, and for all you PFC users with the intermittent A/C problem - replace your engine harness. Maybe the design was improved since '93 or maybe my old harness was just that - old and heat-baked (and therefore not as conductive), I don't know. One thing I do know is the new harness has fixed the A/C intermittent engagement issue for my car. I now blow cold and constant at all fan settings. This was a total bonus.
I will publish any timeslips and dyno numbers I get over the next few weeks. Checkpoint still does not have their website up, so there are no pictures yet available of this new unit. However, because it looks so stock, don't expect to see the same kind of dramatic visual presentation that you get when looking at a single-turbo car. That's the beauty of this setup for we Kalifornians in pursuit of ludicrous speed!
Beast
08-15-02, 06:32 PM
#35
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OMG Beast gorgeous 
! Thanks for the heads up man regarding the condition of your twins! So you live in Cally, that's great...heheh. Twins are, as you say, the best way to look stock and still pass emissions. Speaking of which, are they capable of passing emissions? Oh wait durr yeah......turn boost to 0 
. You didn't hear me say that...heheh. Congrats man and I hope to hear alot more about your setup in the near future as well as check out your time and dyno slips 
.
EDIT: Damn Boostd7, that's beautiful. I wonder how those babies fare up. Where can those be purchased at? Them Apexi bb turbo kits?
! Thanks for the heads up man regarding the condition of your twins! So you live in Cally, that's great...heheh. Twins are, as you say, the best way to look stock and still pass emissions. Speaking of which, are they capable of passing emissions? Oh wait durr yeah......turn boost to 0 . You didn't hear me say that...heheh. Congrats man and I hope to hear alot more about your setup in the near future as well as check out your time and dyno slips .EDIT: Damn Boostd7, that's beautiful. I wonder how those babies fare up. Where can those be purchased at? Them Apexi bb turbo kits?
08-15-02, 06:32 PM
#36
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The turbos are Apexi IHI AX53B70-P25 units similar to the RX6 (smaller though, the FD3S RX6 is a TCW76-P27). The CHRA is dual ball bearing design, and is water & oil cooled. Stainless manifold and downpipe, all fittings and coolant lines. Internal wastegates.
08-15-02, 06:38 PM
#38
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Go for it glass man. Always good to see some peeps take the challenge. Dman turbo kits popping up all over the place. All us TT lovers would love to put them ***** under our hood 
.
.
08-15-02, 06:39 PM
#39
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Yeah they run parallel. I posted the info on these awhile ago, but everyone was pretty skeptical of the 500 ps figure. I haven't found any dyno numbers for an FD with this setup, but the Apexi drag Integra uses twin (smaller than the Border kit) Apexi IHI AX53B70-P21 turbos on an H22A, and produces over 650 bhp at 22.8 psi.
08-15-02, 06:50 PM
#43
As long as they are good friends with my friends, American Express, and Mr. Visa and Mastercard.
I'm also looking into the M2 dual BB and the GT3540 kit, as well as the regular Apex'i kit. Since the Apex kit isn't water cooled its kind of the bottom of the list.
I'm also looking into the M2 dual BB and the GT3540 kit, as well as the regular Apex'i kit. Since the Apex kit isn't water cooled its kind of the bottom of the list.
08-15-02, 06:52 PM
#44
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Well, out of those choices I would (me personally) choose between the Border kit and the GT3540. Speaking of power I think the Border kit has a little more potential, but the GT3540 is really close behind that.
08-15-02, 06:57 PM
#45
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Yea if only my stupid RX-7 deal didn't fall through! POS!!! Well in any case, I will keep you guys in mind when the time comes . And believe me, the time will come . The border kit is pretty badass, but is there any US distrubitor? Plus Beast, or anybody who knows, know when the tt 35/40 kit will be available? And the price? I know you mentioned that...
But let's get a precise number shall we ?
. And believe me, the time will come . The border kit is pretty badass, but is there any US distrubitor? Plus Beast, or anybody who knows, know when the tt 35/40 kit will be available? And the price? I know you mentioned that...
Quoted by Beast From The East
Price - still unknown, but it won't be cheap. If you have to ask ...... well, you know how the saying goes.
Price - still unknown, but it won't be cheap. If you have to ask ...... well, you know how the saying goes.
?
08-16-02, 01:55 AM
#46
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For sale: 1 kidney for Border twins
Originally posted by GotBoostd7
$3,830.00 USD
$3,830.00 USD
Two are allways better than one
Damn, that pic is centerfold material!
08-19-02, 05:00 PM
#49
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Heading to drags this Wednesday
I will be out at Sacramento Raceway for the Street Legal drags. We'll see what kind of numbers I can lay down.
Beast
Beast
08-19-02, 06:05 PM
#50
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hehe dont we all wish...
the actual price for the turbo kit from Border, WITH TURBOS is 750,000 Yen or $6355.00 at current exchange rates . I estimated at being able to offer this kit at $7500-8000 to your door with freight and insurance and duties, bank fees and all that crap
the 450,000 yen price is a setup kit - No turbochargers
keep in mind this kit requires removing the smog pump and EGR I would think
AND you will need a complete fuel system to get anywhere near the potential.
AND does not include any piping for the intercooler...
Or an intercooler...
I was going to get one for my car, but I think I could build a custom internally gated T3/T4 kit, cheaper.
the 450,000 yen price is a setup kit - No turbochargers
keep in mind this kit requires removing the smog pump and EGR I would think
AND you will need a complete fuel system to get anywhere near the potential.
AND does not include any piping for the intercooler...
Or an intercooler...
I was going to get one for my car, but I think I could build a custom internally gated T3/T4 kit, cheaper.