354HP @11 psi with Dyno sheet
08-17-02, 01:37 AM
#152
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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I agree with KevinK2 about the more aggressive porting. Thats what I've been thinking from the get go with all this. You guys have to understand that most shops "streetport" is nothing but a cleanup port. You just dont get aggressive porting unless you ask for it because the average rx7 owner cant and doesnt know how to tune for larger ports.
I think that in addition to some real aggressive tuning gave him the extra 20 rwhp. It is very possible to gain an extra 20rwhp thru a large streetport and aggressive tuning.
I dont think he is running higher compression rotors because I'd imagine if he were you should see more tq than normal in the lower rpms
STEPHEN
I think that in addition to some real aggressive tuning gave him the extra 20 rwhp. It is very possible to gain an extra 20rwhp thru a large streetport and aggressive tuning.
I dont think he is running higher compression rotors because I'd imagine if he were you should see more tq than normal in the lower rpms
STEPHEN
08-17-02, 02:30 AM
#153
Weird Cat Man
Observer Speaks
Again, not taking sides; just reporting what I saw that day.
To answer some of Gordon's questions:
I saw the AFR quite clearly on many runs that day. I was asked to keep that confidential, so I will respect Peter and Ryan's wishes. Please, kind friends, I don't need people PM'ing me to tell them the number. If I tell someone that I won't reveal something, I wont. That's it.
By the way, I still have the AFRs on my camera tape (until I record over them, which I partially did tonight) for some of the numerous tuning runs that day. I do not know for SURE if I have a record of an 11 psi run or not. If Ryan or Peter choose to reveal their numbers, I will be happy to look and see what I've got left on the tape as evidence. (Maybe I should buy another tape? heh, I'm cheap).
The intercooler was not chilled or manipulated in any way. The hood was up, and a fan was blowing. There was no ice tank; nothing was sprayed on the intercooler.
To answer some of the HP vs Torque questions:
Consider these two theoretical dyno datasets.....
--------------------------------
Run #1
rpm torque hp
3000 100 57
4000 210 160
5000 260 248
6000 275 314
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 275
Peak HP = 347
--------------------------------
Run #2
rpm torque hp
3000 160 91
4000 320 244
5000 350 333
6000 300 343
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 350
Peak HP = 347
---------------------------------
On both of these, the maximum HP reading is the same, but the maximum torque is quite different. This is because while torque and horsepower are tied together mathematically, the RPM also is part of that equation.
Ryan stated that increasing the boost resulted in minimal HP gains, but did make some nice jumps in the maximum torque. I was there, and that is a true statement. By reading that statement carefully and taking it as the truth, one can conclude that this must mean that he was making more torque down low with increased boost, but up at higher RPM, the torque was about the same.
If Ryan goes to another shop that is nearby and I can get the time off of work, I'm looking forward to documenting this "Dyno Challenge"! If I go, I will faithfully report all the findings of the day, however they come out. I'd like to humbly suggest somewhere closer than KD Rotary... just to save myself the driving time.
Regards,
Brian
To answer some of Gordon's questions:
I saw the AFR quite clearly on many runs that day. I was asked to keep that confidential, so I will respect Peter and Ryan's wishes. Please, kind friends, I don't need people PM'ing me to tell them the number. If I tell someone that I won't reveal something, I wont. That's it.
By the way, I still have the AFRs on my camera tape (until I record over them, which I partially did tonight) for some of the numerous tuning runs that day. I do not know for SURE if I have a record of an 11 psi run or not. If Ryan or Peter choose to reveal their numbers, I will be happy to look and see what I've got left on the tape as evidence. (Maybe I should buy another tape? heh, I'm cheap).
The intercooler was not chilled or manipulated in any way. The hood was up, and a fan was blowing. There was no ice tank; nothing was sprayed on the intercooler.
To answer some of the HP vs Torque questions:
Consider these two theoretical dyno datasets.....
--------------------------------
Run #1
rpm torque hp
3000 100 57
4000 210 160
5000 260 248
6000 275 314
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 275
Peak HP = 347
--------------------------------
Run #2
rpm torque hp
3000 160 91
4000 320 244
5000 350 333
6000 300 343
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 350
Peak HP = 347
---------------------------------
On both of these, the maximum HP reading is the same, but the maximum torque is quite different. This is because while torque and horsepower are tied together mathematically, the RPM also is part of that equation.
Ryan stated that increasing the boost resulted in minimal HP gains, but did make some nice jumps in the maximum torque. I was there, and that is a true statement. By reading that statement carefully and taking it as the truth, one can conclude that this must mean that he was making more torque down low with increased boost, but up at higher RPM, the torque was about the same.
If Ryan goes to another shop that is nearby and I can get the time off of work, I'm looking forward to documenting this "Dyno Challenge"! If I go, I will faithfully report all the findings of the day, however they come out. I'd like to humbly suggest somewhere closer than KD Rotary... just to save myself the driving time.
Regards,
Brian
08-17-02, 06:56 AM
#154
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Rikki:
So which is it? In your response to Nathan Kwok's list of questions, your answer to "what octane was your pump gas" was race fuel. Earlier, you stated you made the 349 run on 93 octane. And 351 (353?) on race gas.
I don't think you are seeing this from our perspective.
Everyday, we have to put up with you providing nauseating free advertising for PFS. Usually, several times a day. You posted your new numbers, knowing they were higher than what anyone had seen before at that psi. And then you get all defensive and hurt when we ask legitimate questions?
So far, you have NOT answered the questions clearly and consistently. The story, details, and numbers have changed several times and you have been secretive about very important details, such as the A/F ratios. The very fact that Wargasm was asked not to disclose them is suspicious. There should be no secrets here. Other tuners are not hiding their A/F ratios, why is PFS.
Also, why can't you just tell us EVERYTHING that has been done to the car? Don't you want to share this knowledge so we can all benefit?
Rikki, you have been a good member of this forum for the most part. You are very willing to help people with their problems and you have quite a bit of knowledge of these cars. It's just that people get so damn sick of the constant PFS ads. We are not trying to attack you here, we're just trying to get straight and consistent answers. It hasn't happened yet.
So which is it? In your response to Nathan Kwok's list of questions, your answer to "what octane was your pump gas" was race fuel. Earlier, you stated you made the 349 run on 93 octane. And 351 (353?) on race gas.
I don't think you are seeing this from our perspective.
Everyday, we have to put up with you providing nauseating free advertising for PFS. Usually, several times a day. You posted your new numbers, knowing they were higher than what anyone had seen before at that psi. And then you get all defensive and hurt when we ask legitimate questions?
So far, you have NOT answered the questions clearly and consistently. The story, details, and numbers have changed several times and you have been secretive about very important details, such as the A/F ratios. The very fact that Wargasm was asked not to disclose them is suspicious. There should be no secrets here. Other tuners are not hiding their A/F ratios, why is PFS.
Also, why can't you just tell us EVERYTHING that has been done to the car? Don't you want to share this knowledge so we can all benefit?
Rikki, you have been a good member of this forum for the most part. You are very willing to help people with their problems and you have quite a bit of knowledge of these cars. It's just that people get so damn sick of the constant PFS ads. We are not trying to attack you here, we're just trying to get straight and consistent answers. It hasn't happened yet.
08-17-02, 07:03 AM
#155
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Originally posted by RX-8
this is why i'll never post my #'s on this forum. you think your helping others out by posting your mods/dynosheet and you get flamed. total bullshit. congrats Rikki, nice #'s.
this is why i'll never post my #'s on this forum. you think your helping others out by posting your mods/dynosheet and you get flamed. total bullshit. congrats Rikki, nice #'s.
Rikki posted the highest numbers ever seen and you don't expect us to ask questions? How can asking what A/F ratio was used be considered "flaming".
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
08-17-02, 08:57 AM
#156
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Originally posted by rynberg
He had no intention of helping anybody else by posting his numbers. They are advertising for PFS. If he had posted them for our benefit, ALL information would be disclosed. Despite repeated attempts, it hasn't been yet.
Rikki posted the highest numbers ever seen and you don't expect us to ask questions? How can asking what A/F ratio was used be considered "flaming".
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
He had no intention of helping anybody else by posting his numbers. They are advertising for PFS. If he had posted them for our benefit, ALL information would be disclosed. Despite repeated attempts, it hasn't been yet.
Rikki posted the highest numbers ever seen and you don't expect us to ask questions? How can asking what A/F ratio was used be considered "flaming".
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
If he doesn't want others to know then thats his perogative. If you had something that everyone else wanted and you worked hard to get it would you share it with everyone? Personally I don't blame him for not telling you ******** everything. As much **** as he gets I wouldn't tell any of you ************* anything. If he won't tell you his A/F numbers then thats it...STOP ASKING.
As for "east coast newbs" and "blindly jumping in without knowledge" Who the **** are you? I have more knowledge about Ryan's car (and Ray's) then 98% of the people on this forum. I know them both personally, and both are really cool guys.
In the world of competative racing, racers don't share all the secrets.
Last edited by 93 R1; 08-17-02 at 09:00 AM.
08-17-02, 09:05 AM
#157
Senior Member
There's only one conceivable reason for not sharing the A/F numbers, it's tuned to the ragged edge. And you know what, that's fine too if you want bragging rights. But run that on the street and see how long till it blows.
08-17-02, 09:49 AM
#158
Blow up or win
Here's my take:
1) STRATEGIC MISREPRESENTATION
2) PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY
3) PUBLICITY VALUE
4) PROFIT MOTIVE
5) BOTTOM LINE: MORE BUSINESS FOR PFS
(And here's my .02 cents on the extra hp: enlarged, matched and polished intake and dynamic chamber. BASIC hot rodding, but no one does it on rotaries since it is a lot of tedious work. Sure, some turbulence in the intake is supposedly good, and this engine probably barely idles, but when you are going for all out hp, who cares?)
If PFS was really smart, they would disclose their "secret", and gain RESPECT again from long time forum members. Word of mouth advertising counts BIG time in small, specialized markets. Hiding behind half truths, speculation and dubious results only lessens their status. A classic public relations disaster in the long run.
They will probably get enough ignorant newbs (they already have) to believe this bullshit and keep them busy for a long time bolting on downpipes and selling overly engineered cold air intakes. From a short term business standpoint it's a pretty clever ploy, and since Gen Y's are loathe to turn a wrench, get their hands dirty, or actually learn something about tuning they will probably rebuild quite a few blown motors in the future as well. And that's where the real money is.
"Gee, Mr. PFS, can you give me 349 horsepower out of 1.3 liters and make my engine last 100K?"
Mr. Personality himself should come on board and declare what a genius he is instead of having someone shill for him.
1) STRATEGIC MISREPRESENTATION
2) PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY
3) PUBLICITY VALUE
4) PROFIT MOTIVE
5) BOTTOM LINE: MORE BUSINESS FOR PFS
(And here's my .02 cents on the extra hp: enlarged, matched and polished intake and dynamic chamber. BASIC hot rodding, but no one does it on rotaries since it is a lot of tedious work. Sure, some turbulence in the intake is supposedly good, and this engine probably barely idles, but when you are going for all out hp, who cares?)
If PFS was really smart, they would disclose their "secret", and gain RESPECT again from long time forum members. Word of mouth advertising counts BIG time in small, specialized markets. Hiding behind half truths, speculation and dubious results only lessens their status. A classic public relations disaster in the long run.
They will probably get enough ignorant newbs (they already have) to believe this bullshit and keep them busy for a long time bolting on downpipes and selling overly engineered cold air intakes. From a short term business standpoint it's a pretty clever ploy, and since Gen Y's are loathe to turn a wrench, get their hands dirty, or actually learn something about tuning they will probably rebuild quite a few blown motors in the future as well. And that's where the real money is.
"Gee, Mr. PFS, can you give me 349 horsepower out of 1.3 liters and make my engine last 100K?"
Mr. Personality himself should come on board and declare what a genius he is instead of having someone shill for him.
08-17-02, 09:52 AM
#159
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Or he's lying about how much hp the car produced and divulging all the details would shed light on that fact. Just a theory. I can't say one way or the other whether his numbers are truthful. I made 330rwhp on a completely stock engine/turbos with bolt on stuff, albeit at a higher boost level. I also scanned in my dyno sheet and detailed info about my AFR's. This was almost a year ago. Yet amazingly, I never was flamed! Go figure...
08-17-02, 10:29 AM
#160
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by rynberg
He had no intention of helping anybody else by posting his numbers. They are advertising for PFS. If he had posted them for our benefit, ALL information would be disclosed. Despite repeated attempts, it hasn't been yet.
Rikki posted the highest numbers ever seen and you don't expect us to ask questions? How can asking what A/F ratio was used be considered "flaming".
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
He had no intention of helping anybody else by posting his numbers. They are advertising for PFS. If he had posted them for our benefit, ALL information would be disclosed. Despite repeated attempts, it hasn't been yet.
Rikki posted the highest numbers ever seen and you don't expect us to ask questions? How can asking what A/F ratio was used be considered "flaming".
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
God! it kills me to think that he now works for PFS. can you imagine how this board is going to get? he was bad enough with this PFS **** before....
it is realy annoying to have to read his BS about Petah day in and day out....sorry Rikki, but that is the way most of feel. not because of "Gordo" but because of all the **** you post....
I dont doubt you made those numbers, but just as JR said. it is most likely tuned on the very edge and is not reliable in the real world.
------------------------
by not providing info and the story changing, it makes us all believe all the old **** from Mr. Monson even more. if we were already believers of Gordon's, we have more fuel in the fire. if on the fence, maybe we now lean more twords "Gordo".
take that back to Petah and tell him "My new attempt at trying to restore your client base have once again failed miserably. Maybe next week we will come up with something else BOSS."
08-17-02, 11:15 AM
#161
Rotary Enthusiast
350 rwhp @ 7500 rpm, 11 psi ... what does it take???
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
at 100% breathing efficiency, 601 CFM ( 7500, 11 psi )
at 100% IC efficiency, 70F, thats 44.5 lb/hr air flow into engine.
at 11:1 a/f, fuel flow is 4.0 lb/min, or 243 lb/hr fuel.
BSFC tells how much fuel energy goes to hp vs heat, for specific type of engine. although the BSFC for stock FD is .65, tuned FD will be around .55 to .60. At this power level, factor from rwhp to eng is 1.12.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
@.55 ..... @.60 BSFC
100% IC and Breathing eff'y:
442 ........ 405 _ eng hp
395 ........ 362 _ rwhp
90% IC, 89% breathing efficiency:
316 ........ 289 _ rwhp
12:1 a/f, 90% IC, 89% breathing efficiency:
344 ........ 315 _ rwhp
so in theory, big IC well cooled before run, new engine for low bsfc, mabe closer to 12:1 at top end, turbo tweaks to reduce back pressure and improve breathing .....
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
at 100% breathing efficiency, 601 CFM ( 7500, 11 psi )
at 100% IC efficiency, 70F, thats 44.5 lb/hr air flow into engine.
at 11:1 a/f, fuel flow is 4.0 lb/min, or 243 lb/hr fuel.
BSFC tells how much fuel energy goes to hp vs heat, for specific type of engine. although the BSFC for stock FD is .65, tuned FD will be around .55 to .60. At this power level, factor from rwhp to eng is 1.12.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
@.55 ..... @.60 BSFC
100% IC and Breathing eff'y:
442 ........ 405 _ eng hp
395 ........ 362 _ rwhp
90% IC, 89% breathing efficiency:
316 ........ 289 _ rwhp
12:1 a/f, 90% IC, 89% breathing efficiency:
344 ........ 315 _ rwhp
so in theory, big IC well cooled before run, new engine for low bsfc, mabe closer to 12:1 at top end, turbo tweaks to reduce back pressure and improve breathing .....
08-17-02, 11:26 AM
#162
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thanks to all the knowledgable folks like gordon and kevin and the few others in this post....for without your info propaganda guy at pfs would be throwing out blatant advertisements until i went and bought swamp land in beautiful southern mississipi and an rx7 that doubles as a swamp buggy.
to those who bitch about gordon posting useful and good information...stfu. you dont know jack or you would give him more respect for what he knows. but believe me...when its your car that takes a **** it will be these guys who you ask questions to in hopes for solutions...not guys like rikki and not guys like the people posting crap like that.
it does look to me like we opened up the new advertising age of the forums. yuck.
j
to those who bitch about gordon posting useful and good information...stfu. you dont know jack or you would give him more respect for what he knows. but believe me...when its your car that takes a **** it will be these guys who you ask questions to in hopes for solutions...not guys like rikki and not guys like the people posting crap like that.
it does look to me like we opened up the new advertising age of the forums. yuck.
j
08-17-02, 01:56 PM
#163
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Re: Observer Speaks
Originally posted by Wargasm
Again, not taking sides; just reporting what I saw that day.
To answer some of Gordon's questions:
I saw the AFR quite clearly on many runs that day. I was asked to keep that confidential, so I will respect Peter and Ryan's wishes. Please, kind friends, I don't need people PM'ing me to tell them the number. If I tell someone that I won't reveal something, I wont. That's it.
By the way, I still have the AFRs on my camera tape (until I record over them, which I partially did tonight) for some of the numerous tuning runs that day. I do not know for SURE if I have a record of an 11 psi run or not. If Ryan or Peter choose to reveal their numbers, I will be happy to look and see what I've got left on the tape as evidence. (Maybe I should buy another tape? heh, I'm cheap).
The intercooler was not chilled or manipulated in any way. The hood was up, and a fan was blowing. There was no ice tank; nothing was sprayed on the intercooler.
To answer some of the HP vs Torque questions:
Consider these two theoretical dyno datasets.....
--------------------------------
Run #1
rpm torque hp
3000 100 57
4000 210 160
5000 260 248
6000 275 314
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 275
Peak HP = 347
--------------------------------
Run #2
rpm torque hp
3000 160 91
4000 320 244
5000 350 333
6000 300 343
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 350
Peak HP = 347
---------------------------------
On both of these, the maximum HP reading is the same, but the maximum torque is quite different. This is because while torque and horsepower are tied together mathematically, the RPM also is part of that equation.
Ryan stated that increasing the boost resulted in minimal HP gains, but did make some nice jumps in the maximum torque. I was there, and that is a true statement. By reading that statement carefully and taking it as the truth, one can conclude that this must mean that he was making more torque down low with increased boost, but up at higher RPM, the torque was about the same.
Regards,
Brian
Again, not taking sides; just reporting what I saw that day.
To answer some of Gordon's questions:
I saw the AFR quite clearly on many runs that day. I was asked to keep that confidential, so I will respect Peter and Ryan's wishes. Please, kind friends, I don't need people PM'ing me to tell them the number. If I tell someone that I won't reveal something, I wont. That's it.
By the way, I still have the AFRs on my camera tape (until I record over them, which I partially did tonight) for some of the numerous tuning runs that day. I do not know for SURE if I have a record of an 11 psi run or not. If Ryan or Peter choose to reveal their numbers, I will be happy to look and see what I've got left on the tape as evidence. (Maybe I should buy another tape? heh, I'm cheap).
The intercooler was not chilled or manipulated in any way. The hood was up, and a fan was blowing. There was no ice tank; nothing was sprayed on the intercooler.
To answer some of the HP vs Torque questions:
Consider these two theoretical dyno datasets.....
--------------------------------
Run #1
rpm torque hp
3000 100 57
4000 210 160
5000 260 248
6000 275 314
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 275
Peak HP = 347
--------------------------------
Run #2
rpm torque hp
3000 160 91
4000 320 244
5000 350 333
6000 300 343
7000 260 347
Peak Torque = 350
Peak HP = 347
---------------------------------
On both of these, the maximum HP reading is the same, but the maximum torque is quite different. This is because while torque and horsepower are tied together mathematically, the RPM also is part of that equation.
Ryan stated that increasing the boost resulted in minimal HP gains, but did make some nice jumps in the maximum torque. I was there, and that is a true statement. By reading that statement carefully and taking it as the truth, one can conclude that this must mean that he was making more torque down low with increased boost, but up at higher RPM, the torque was about the same.
Regards,
Brian
He never said max tq and hp. He just said his tq raised a lot and his hp didnt move. Like I said earlier....sure the peak hp can stay the same BUT EVERYWHERE THAT TQ JUMPED HP ALSO JUMPED. This is how you tune the curve and its what I've been saying the whole time. Any racer knows tuning the curve is just as important is not more important than the peak. The only reason you tune around peak power is to try and impress people with a number. Its dyno queen rule # 1. I know Peter knows better why would he not care about the curve???
I also have suggested one reason he didnt get more hp at higher boost is that Peter ran pretty lean at 11psi then started to richen it up a lot above that....the added richness while safer negates the added boost to some extent.
STEPHEN
08-17-02, 01:58 PM
#164
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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I agree with Gordon and think we all have a good idea of how me arrived at these numbers. There isnt much more to talk about so how about if we just let it go and all pray for Rikki's motor, I have a feeling it might need it.
Rikki, I want to congradulate you on the good numbers I just hope they dont end up biting you in the long run. Now get out to theh track and lay the smack down
STEPHEN
Rikki, I want to congradulate you on the good numbers I just hope they dont end up biting you in the long run. Now get out to theh track and lay the smack down
STEPHEN
08-17-02, 02:21 PM
#166
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Originally posted by rynberg
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
BTW, it cracks me up when all you east coast newbs blindly jump to Rikki's defense when you know nothing about the whole thing. A lot of the guys asking questions (like Gordon) have had their FDs since Rikki was in middle school. And yet, they know NOTHING? Give me a ******* break...
Took the words right out of my mouth..
08-17-02, 02:42 PM
#167
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Originally posted by 93 R1
If he doesn't want others to know then thats his perogative. If you had something that everyone else wanted and you worked hard to get it would you share it with everyone? Personally I don't blame him for not telling you ******** everything. As much **** as he gets I wouldn't tell any of you ************* anything. If he won't tell you his A/F numbers then thats it...STOP ASKING.
As for "east coast newbs" and "blindly jumping in without knowledge" Who the **** are you? I have more knowledge about Ryan's car (and Ray's) then 98% of the people on this forum. I know them both personally, and both are really cool guys.
In the world of competative racing, racers don't share all the secrets.
If he doesn't want others to know then thats his perogative. If you had something that everyone else wanted and you worked hard to get it would you share it with everyone? Personally I don't blame him for not telling you ******** everything. As much **** as he gets I wouldn't tell any of you ************* anything. If he won't tell you his A/F numbers then thats it...STOP ASKING.
As for "east coast newbs" and "blindly jumping in without knowledge" Who the **** are you? I have more knowledge about Ryan's car (and Ray's) then 98% of the people on this forum. I know them both personally, and both are really cool guys.
In the world of competative racing, racers don't share all the secrets.
Why would I want to use Rikki's dyno tune info for my own use? Most of the people asking questions don't even have the same setup as Ryan. We only want to know this info because if there is a secret ingrediant maybe we can all benifit, and because we're not young kids and we like to have all the info before we believe any off the wall hp claims(at 10 psi).
Look at it in our eyes. If he won't tell us his A/F ratio or any other info for that matter then that dyno graph is just useless info and waste of space. Kinda like all the PFS jargon that gets thrown around. That graph does nothing more then give Ryan bragging rights to say he made xhp at xpsi. Although no one will ever believe him because he doesn't/didn't give all the info of how he got that.
Give me some time I can furnish you with a graph saying I made 400rwhp, I'll then tell you that was on stock twins at 10 psi on pump gas if the dyno isn't marked how many PSI the runs were at, or A/F is given, if no other info is given then who would believe me? The painful thought is alot of the forum members would. Especially if I hung out in MD.
I'm glad you have soooo much knowledge about Ryan and Ray's car unfortunately there is much more to know then the stats on 2 FD's in the world. I say that because you said you know "about" Ryan's and Ray's cars. Just knowing about two cars doesn't mean you know anymore than the next guy. I know "about" Pettit's Banzai so am I better?
You're right competitive racers don't expose their secrets, but I don't think they post dyno graphs on the forum bragging they made xhp at x psi if they're trying to keep their "secrets" either.
BTW, you're exhaust is 3.75" not 3.5"....
08-17-02, 04:13 PM
#168
Constant threat
Well put, Gordon.
Those of us that are either a.) older and wiser or b.) true affiacianodos/experts in the field of RX7s
are not inclined to take the derision of some of these kids lightly. Especially those of questionable knowledge/background/expertise.
Those of us that are either a.) older and wiser or b.) true affiacianodos/experts in the field of RX7s
are not inclined to take the derision of some of these kids lightly. Especially those of questionable knowledge/background/expertise.
08-17-02, 04:13 PM
#169
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Originally posted by black99
Why would I want to use Rikki's dyno tune info for my own use? Most of the people asking questions don't even have the same setup as Ryan. We only want to know this info because if there is a secret ingrediant maybe we can all benifit, and because we're not young kids and we like to have all the info before we believe any off the wall hp claims(at 10 psi).
Look at it in our eyes. If he won't tell us his A/F ratio or any other info for that matter then that dyno graph is just useless info and waste of space. Kinda like all the PFS jargon that gets thrown around. That graph does nothing more then give Ryan bragging rights to say he made xhp at xpsi. Although no one will ever believe him because he doesn't/didn't give all the info of how he got that.
Give me some time I can furnish you with a graph saying I made 400rwhp, I'll then tell you that was on stock twins at 10 psi on pump gas if the dyno isn't marked how many PSI the runs were at, or A/F is given, if no other info is given then who would believe me? The painful thought is alot of the forum members would. Especially if I hung out in MD.
I'm glad you have soooo much knowledge about Ryan and Ray's car unfortunately there is much more to know then the stats on 2 FD's in the world. I say that because you said you know "about" Ryan's and Ray's cars. Just knowing about two cars doesn't mean you know anymore than the next guy. I know "about" Pettit's Banzai so am I better?
You're right competitive racers don't expose their secrets, but I don't think they post dyno graphs on the forum bragging they made xhp at x psi if they're trying to keep their "secrets" either.
BTW, you're exhaust is 3.75" not 3.5"....
Why would I want to use Rikki's dyno tune info for my own use? Most of the people asking questions don't even have the same setup as Ryan. We only want to know this info because if there is a secret ingrediant maybe we can all benifit, and because we're not young kids and we like to have all the info before we believe any off the wall hp claims(at 10 psi).
Look at it in our eyes. If he won't tell us his A/F ratio or any other info for that matter then that dyno graph is just useless info and waste of space. Kinda like all the PFS jargon that gets thrown around. That graph does nothing more then give Ryan bragging rights to say he made xhp at xpsi. Although no one will ever believe him because he doesn't/didn't give all the info of how he got that.
Give me some time I can furnish you with a graph saying I made 400rwhp, I'll then tell you that was on stock twins at 10 psi on pump gas if the dyno isn't marked how many PSI the runs were at, or A/F is given, if no other info is given then who would believe me? The painful thought is alot of the forum members would. Especially if I hung out in MD.
I'm glad you have soooo much knowledge about Ryan and Ray's car unfortunately there is much more to know then the stats on 2 FD's in the world. I say that because you said you know "about" Ryan's and Ray's cars. Just knowing about two cars doesn't mean you know anymore than the next guy. I know "about" Pettit's Banzai so am I better?
You're right competitive racers don't expose their secrets, but I don't think they post dyno graphs on the forum bragging they made xhp at x psi if they're trying to keep their "secrets" either.
BTW, you're exhaust is 3.75" not 3.5"....
08-17-02, 04:17 PM
#170
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Rikki, I want to congradulate you on the good numbers I just hope they dont end up biting you in the long run.
08-17-02, 04:19 PM
#171
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Originally posted by gmonsen
93 R1: you are 19 years old and have lived long enough to have the right to say whatever you want here or anywhere else. you live near ryan and know him and his car. that's all great. (i even liked your original avatar.)
but, to come on flailing away in the face of a bunch of very knowledgeable and older (and often wiser from experience) guys needs to be thought through. certainly, calling us "********" is not an adroit way of gaining respect or having anyone think much of your comments. (it can also get you booted from the forum, though you may well not care.) but, ignoring the pugnacious appelation, your points were that you could understand rikki not wanting to share (ahem) with us, because he was, what?, a racer? and it would be giving away a competitive edge? well, while i won't even bother discussing how intense a racer rikki may or may not be, it was not his call to with hold the coveted air fuel information. it was peter farrell's call. peter did not want the AFR's disclosed.
that dealt with, "who the ****" are we? well, i am someone who bought his new rx7 in march of 1996 right around your 13th birthday and who has successfully modified it and had it in national magazines as an example of a reasonably nice rx7. i have participated in the big list since 1996 and the forum since it started. i have listened and learned a great deal from everyone in all these groups and never ever been accused of claiming anything that was outlandlish or unproven. i have shared all of my experiences with everyone in turn, just as have most of the others you have called ********. i appreciate being grouped with them.
-gordon
93 R1: you are 19 years old and have lived long enough to have the right to say whatever you want here or anywhere else. you live near ryan and know him and his car. that's all great. (i even liked your original avatar.)
but, to come on flailing away in the face of a bunch of very knowledgeable and older (and often wiser from experience) guys needs to be thought through. certainly, calling us "********" is not an adroit way of gaining respect or having anyone think much of your comments. (it can also get you booted from the forum, though you may well not care.) but, ignoring the pugnacious appelation, your points were that you could understand rikki not wanting to share (ahem) with us, because he was, what?, a racer? and it would be giving away a competitive edge? well, while i won't even bother discussing how intense a racer rikki may or may not be, it was not his call to with hold the coveted air fuel information. it was peter farrell's call. peter did not want the AFR's disclosed.
that dealt with, "who the ****" are we? well, i am someone who bought his new rx7 in march of 1996 right around your 13th birthday and who has successfully modified it and had it in national magazines as an example of a reasonably nice rx7. i have participated in the big list since 1996 and the forum since it started. i have listened and learned a great deal from everyone in all these groups and never ever been accused of claiming anything that was outlandlish or unproven. i have shared all of my experiences with everyone in turn, just as have most of the others you have called ********. i appreciate being grouped with them.
-gordon
I'm leaving now.
08-17-02, 04:37 PM
#172
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Man this thread has turned to ****. Ryan was just posting out of excitement, and others that are truely dedicated FD fans (Gordon etc.) were just wondering how he achieved such strong numbers, THAT IS ALL. I know Ryan and he is a great guy, and very good with FD's, and so is Gordon amongst others. Like Gordon pointed out I think this thread has answered a lot of questions, and maybe in due time Rikki will release his secret, but until he is ready, he is not an ******* for doing so, and Gordon and other interested members are not ******** for wanting to gain more knowledge. All I have to say is that tomorrow at MIR the times will not lie. Good luck Ryan, YOU CAN DO IT, YOU CAN DO IT ALL DAY LONG
08-17-02, 05:21 PM
#173
Lurking..................
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Originally posted by 93 R1
Well you won't be posting any graphs for anyone to see because you don't have an RX7 anymore. I didn't have any problems with you specifically but if you want to say that I or we marylanders are stupid or gullible them keep your *** up in southern PA with all those inbreeds.
Well you won't be posting any graphs for anyone to see because you don't have an RX7 anymore. I didn't have any problems with you specifically but if you want to say that I or we marylanders are stupid or gullible them keep your *** up in southern PA with all those inbreeds.
You totally missed my point. The point was not that I had an rx7 that makes 400rwhp.
My point was that if I post a dyno graph with nothing on it but hp and torque #'s and tell someone it came from stock twins, 10 psi, etc. And it's PFS built and tuned. This time let's I post one that says say 356rwhp. Then alot of people who don't do research on how much is possible on stock twins at 10 psi won't question it because they think that it's possible and/or they're just excited that their friend or another forum member made that hp.
There would also be people that were the naysayers that would question it. For whatever reason be it they have dynoed their car with the same mods , read graphs of other cars with the same mods and not near that hp or that they just don't trust that PFS did this legit or see why Ryans was the first car ever to come out of PFS with these numbers. Then lets say I never ever gave out any more info to those naysayers. You have all those naysayers convincing other people that somethings up.
I was not saying that "Marylanders are gullible". But that you guys don't question the dyno because you guys know Ryan well not because you know anymore info than us(except Wargasm, he was there so he does know a little more).
Alot of you guys that hang out together blindly take up for each other(Not Wargasm though and usually not 93 R1 though which is why you comments suprised me). You have always been laid back and cool for the most part. And I'm sorry to tell you that most of your posts both of Ryans threads were as bad as Ryan's brother gets sometime. Assanine, Inmature, and prove nothing comments like "Ryans car is faster than yours". I have to say if you look back at the thread there are lots of posts like this from people all across DC and Maryland, that's why I made my comment about you guys blindly taking up for each other. Stop acting like an *** and I won't treat you as one.
Wargasm is friends with Rikki and he simply stated what he knew. There was no flaming towards him and no rude comments from him directed at anyone else. I actually think it's awesome that he's not getting in the middle of all this, merely stating what he knows.
Oh I am not originally from PA by the way. Originally lived in Westminster just like you.
Last edited by black99; 08-17-02 at 05:29 PM.
08-17-02, 05:54 PM
#174
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Originally posted by 93 R1
When I said "who the **** are you" I was talking to "rynberg". He has no knowledge of me or anyone else on the east coast. How is he going to say we are posting blindly and know nothing.
When I said "who the **** are you" I was talking to "rynberg". He has no knowledge of me or anyone else on the east coast. How is he going to say we are posting blindly and know nothing.
Also, I felt inclined to comment because all of the Rikki supporters have taken this personally for some reason. The rest of us are just trying to get straight answers, that's all. Some of us have done it more tactfully than others, but we are all just curious as to how the power was achieved. What is so wrong about that?
Oh by the way, the last line of your sig is not only immature, but ridiculous. There are many forum members making more power on the twins and are probably tuned more streetable to boot. I won't even mention any of the dozens of single turbo owners.
Last edited by rynberg; 08-17-02 at 05:57 PM.