3 Mod Rule?
09-03-02, 09:39 AM
#1
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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3 Mod Rule?
A little advice needed...
just want to know if following the 3 mod rule you should have a FC when the 3rd mod goes on or you can have the 3rd mod and no FC....so far I have Apexi Intake & DP...I want to add the racing beat CB eahaust but don't know if it is safe to run that setup (Exhaust, DP, Intake) with out a FC.
Currently I am running a 11-9-10 boost pattern.
What do you think?
just want to know if following the 3 mod rule you should have a FC when the 3rd mod goes on or you can have the 3rd mod and no FC....so far I have Apexi Intake & DP...I want to add the racing beat CB eahaust but don't know if it is safe to run that setup (Exhaust, DP, Intake) with out a FC.
Currently I am running a 11-9-10 boost pattern.
What do you think?
09-03-02, 09:59 AM
#3
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I have the intake, Downpipe, and Hi-flow cat with the stock cat-back. What Chris at Rotary Performance told me was that as long as you have the stock cat or cat-back, it will restrict exhaust flow enough to be OK without upgrading the ECU.
09-03-02, 10:08 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JUSTgotMINE
[B]I'm not quite at the same point, but have done a lot of searching on that subject. I found that it should be ok as long as you are running the stock cat.
What about RB CB and DP? some people advise that is OK.
Thank you in advance
Alex Kuipers
[B]I'm not quite at the same point, but have done a lot of searching on that subject. I found that it should be ok as long as you are running the stock cat.
What about RB CB and DP? some people advise that is OK.
Thank you in advance
Alex Kuipers
09-03-02, 10:17 AM
#6
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what other mods are you planning in the future??? i would go with the fc or a full ems first...better safe then sorry...chances are you won't stop with cb and you will need one in the future anyway....
09-03-02, 10:37 AM
#7
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Well, I am at the point where I know i will get the PFC either next or after the RB Catback...but didn't know which order to get them in...since i would have to wait a few months (yes finances are an issue) to get the PFC I figured go ahead and get the CatBack for some enjoyment while I collect the cash for the PFC...but the mods planned are;
CB, or PFC next
MP
Fluiding radiator
Large SMIC
Clutch and flywheel
then go singel sometime next year.
Basically that's it...then you know all the cosmetic stuff last like FM-10s, some side skirtz and fuzzy dice
CB, or PFC next
MP
Fluiding radiator
Large SMIC
Clutch and flywheel
then go singel sometime next year.
Basically that's it...then you know all the cosmetic stuff last like FM-10s, some side skirtz and fuzzy dice
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09-03-02, 11:15 AM
#10
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You guys should pm Wade about the 3 mod rule. He has done extensive testing on this and will tell you it's hogwash. Personally I ran a dp, intake, cb and a hi flow cat on a STREETPORTED motor at 12psi and had no problems. When I went mid-pipe I also added the upgraded ECU and ran 14 psi.
Andrew
Andrew
09-03-02, 11:31 AM
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yeah, everyone is going to tell you this and so am i 
,
every car is different no matter what mods etc. In the end you want to put you car on a real wideband and see what fuel mixture you are seeing. There are many factors including mods, condition of injectors/spark so on and so on. I say forget the 3-mod rule, and if you go to wades website it basically turns into the "don't go over 10psi" rule.
Danny
,every car is different no matter what mods etc. In the end you want to put you car on a real wideband and see what fuel mixture you are seeing. There are many factors including mods, condition of injectors/spark so on and so on. I say forget the 3-mod rule, and if you go to wades website it basically turns into the "don't go over 10psi" rule.
Danny
09-03-02, 11:45 AM
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Wade's page:
http://www.wvinter.net/~flanham/wlanham/
The best bet is to put on the cat-back if you're going to and go to a dyno and wideband it. I would definitely worry about hitting fuel-cut without some form of boost control, especially on cold days.
BTW, I have a downpipe and RB cat-back and my A/F at WOT above 5000 rpm is below 10:1. My boost levels are similar to yours.
http://www.wvinter.net/~flanham/wlanham/
The best bet is to put on the cat-back if you're going to and go to a dyno and wideband it. I would definitely worry about hitting fuel-cut without some form of boost control, especially on cold days.
BTW, I have a downpipe and RB cat-back and my A/F at WOT above 5000 rpm is below 10:1. My boost levels are similar to yours.
09-03-02, 12:44 PM
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just wondering... mods: hks hyper exhaust, dual apexi air filter... wiv stock catalytic... but i did take out the honeycomb inside... is dat still good wiv the stock ecu???
09-03-02, 01:23 PM
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Ha ha! Good luck ordering the RB dual tip! Mine's been on backorder for the past 7 weeks. I'm getting a little bit pissed... its supposed to get here in the first or second week of sept. That was after they told me it would be on back order for only three weeks. I ordered it from Rotor Motorsports. They had the best price I could find.
09-03-02, 02:57 PM
#17
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i have to agree. if i blindly follow the 3 mod rule i think i'd be in big trouble. with just a dp and cb i'm getting boost creep up to 13+ psi so there goes the 3 mod rule.
09-03-02, 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by ttb
i have to agree. if i blindly follow the 3 mod rule i think i'd be in big trouble. with just a dp and cb i'm getting boost creep up to 13+ psi so there goes the 3 mod rule.
i have to agree. if i blindly follow the 3 mod rule i think i'd be in big trouble. with just a dp and cb i'm getting boost creep up to 13+ psi so there goes the 3 mod rule.
As far as the back-ordered RB exhausts go, I got mine as part of the group buy -- took 3 MONTHS. So quit whining about waiting a few weeks. j/k
09-03-02, 03:09 PM
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yeah, like has already been said, read wade's site for real world data.
I personally ran IC, DP, CB, cold air for about a year, holding boost to 10psi, no problems.
I personally ran IC, DP, CB, cold air for about a year, holding boost to 10psi, no problems.
09-03-02, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by rynberg
That sounds like you have another issue altogether. Is your wastegate sticking or something? You should not be creeping at all with a stock cat and hitting 13 psi with just a downpipe and cat-back is pretty high.
As far as the back-ordered RB exhausts go, I got mine as part of the group buy -- took 3 MONTHS. So quit whining about waiting a few weeks. j/k
That sounds like you have another issue altogether. Is your wastegate sticking or something? You should not be creeping at all with a stock cat and hitting 13 psi with just a downpipe and cat-back is pretty high.
As far as the back-ordered RB exhausts go, I got mine as part of the group buy -- took 3 MONTHS. So quit whining about waiting a few weeks. j/k
09-03-02, 06:21 PM
#21
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Why would you risk it?! I could car less what some guys website says. I've had experience running lean with 3mods and no ecu upgrade. Do yourself and your 7 a favor. Buy the Power Fc, before anymore mods.
09-03-02, 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by ErnieT
Why would you risk it?! I could car less what some guys website says. I've had experience running lean with 3mods and no ecu upgrade. Do yourself and your 7 a favor. Buy the Power Fc, before anymore mods.
Why would you risk it?! I could car less what some guys website says. I've had experience running lean with 3mods and no ecu upgrade. Do yourself and your 7 a favor. Buy the Power Fc, before anymore mods.
even if you don't want to give his site any value, why should someone spend $1000-$1200 for an ECU, when they could rent a wideband for $50-$100 and actually see what their car is doing.
09-04-02, 02:19 AM
#24
Originally posted by ErnieT
Why would you risk it?! I could car less what some guys website says. I've had experience running lean with 3mods and no ecu upgrade. Do yourself and your 7 a favor. Buy the Power Fc, before anymore mods.
Why would you risk it?! I could car less what some guys website says. I've had experience running lean with 3mods and no ecu upgrade. Do yourself and your 7 a favor. Buy the Power Fc, before anymore mods.
Regards,
Frank
09-04-02, 03:57 AM
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I agree, I'm surprised by ErnieT's comments with his experience. Wade's data looks solid and my own recent dyno run backs it up. I mean my A/F ratio sloped down till it went off the scale (10:1) at 5000 rpm and didn't even register again until about 7500 rpm (10:1). I will allow for the fact that I appear to have a very small boost leak somewhere as I am only hitting 10.5-11 psi with a downpipe and RB cat-back.
Still, if you can control boost to 10 psi, you can certainly run three bolt-on mods safely on the stock ecu (although I wouldn't consider running a midpipe or a streetport on the stock ecu).
Still, if you can control boost to 10 psi, you can certainly run three bolt-on mods safely on the stock ecu (although I wouldn't consider running a midpipe or a streetport on the stock ecu).