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So my low mileage almost factory fd is probably needing a rebuild and coolant seal issues.
local rebuilder estimates possibly $5k for the rebuild minimum. Parts labor new bearings (4 of them) etc
That’s just getting it back to factory engine...
not including single turbo fuel system etc.
in this state, are there other options for a rebuild? I read a short block new is $2500? Does that bypass a lot of the rebuild costs? Coolant seal can be replaced then?
Just starting to get different options for rebuild..
i wouldn’t go ls swap lol just not my taste...
2jz would be cool too if it’s similar or cheaper.. but 2jz engines have gone up a ton in price also
So my low mileage almost factory fd is probably needing a rebuild and coolant seal issues.
local rebuilder estimates possibly $5k for the rebuild minimum. Parts labor new bearings (4 of them) etc
That’s just getting it back to factory engine...
not including single turbo fuel system etc.
in this state, are there other options for a rebuild? I read a short block new is $2500? Does that bypass a lot of the rebuild costs? Coolant seal can be replaced then?
Just starting to get different options for rebuild..
i wouldn’t go ls swap lol just not my taste...
2jz would be cool too if it’s similar or cheaper.. but 2jz engines have gone up a ton in price also
$5k seems a little steep in my opinion for a local rebuilder. If it was a well known shop with a good reputation then I'd say ok.
Brand new motor can be purchased for around 5k yes, but this doesn't make much sense unless you want a spare engine. You'll still have to pay for removal of current engine and install of new one; it wouldn't make financial sense to get a new crate motor ported either (assuming you don't do the work yourself).
You can run a single turbo with stock porting no problem, but later down the road you might find that you want more power than you're able to get out of your stock ports and guess where that leads....another rebuild. Unless you're aiming to keep the car at its stock power levels, I see no reason to not have porting done while it's already apart.
All things considered you have one estimate, if there's others around you that can rebuild your engine try getting a quote from them as well before you make your decision.
Last edited by tikkitokki; Feb 24, 2021 at 02:30 PM.
Parts alone to do a proper rebuild with all the oem seals, springs, gaskets, bearings, etc you should be replacing is $2500+ alone. Add labor, fluids, hoses, etc and it adds up quickly. Once you take all the accessories off a twin turbo motor they often will not go back together as hoses will be too brittle and original paper gaskets cracked. Those guys doing it cheaper are reusing parts or are using inferior aftermarket stuff. This is assuming all your hard parts (rotors, housings, plates , eshaft, etc) are in good reusable condition. If some of them are not often it is more cost effective to start with a brand new motor. Plan a minimum of $6000-8000 for a reputable shop to rebuild them motor and get the car back on the road or more depending on what it needs. Remember its a 25-28 year old semi-exotic car with a unique motor that rivaled Porsche performance for a Mazda price. The cars and parts have gone up in price.
Parts alone to do a proper rebuild with all the oem seals, springs, gaskets, bearings, etc you should be replacing is $2500+ alone. Add labor, fluids, hoses, etc and it adds up quickly. Once you take all the accessories off a twin turbo motor they often will not go back together as hoses will be too brittle and original paper gaskets cracked. Those guys doing it cheaper are reusing parts or are using inferior aftermarket stuff. This is assuming all your hard parts (rotors, housings, plates , eshaft, etc) are in good reusable condition. If some of them are not often it is more cost effective to start with a brand new motor. Plan a minimum of $6000-8000 for a reputable shop to rebuild them motor and get the car back on the road or more depending on what it needs. Remember its a 25-28 year old semi-exotic car with a unique motor that rivaled Porsche performance for a Mazda price. The cars and parts have gone up in price.
Can't argue with what IRP said.....if $6000-8000 scares you then another alternative is to remove and install the engine yourself with the help of a friend and drop the motor off at whatever shop you choose.
That's not to say a local engine builder won't do good work for less. Not having to question the quality of work a reputable shop will do comes with a price.
5k for a reputable shop isn't bad imo. Rebuild vs new depends on the condition of the housings and other parts..... may be cheaper to buy new. If your capable to do the work, buy new install and sell old usable or re buildable parts to offset cost.
There a lot of options, just don't get scammed. Do research with your "re builder".
Big thing to start with here is make a scope of work. It's VERY VERY easy to get into "while I'm in there" and end up with a car that never runs again or just run up a ridiculous tab.
Next is to assess what is your comfort level and skill level with the mechanical end of things. You can definitely save money if you do some of the work yourself, but to be honest all the crap that bolts to the engine is far more complicated and is where people run into problems. You can ship/tow'/drive the car to a shop and have them do everything soup to nuts, you can pull the engine and send the long block (manifolds, wiring, etc.) for a rebuild, or pull the motor and swap the short block or send it for a rebuild.
If you end up doing some of the work yourself, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. That means pictures, movies, labelling things with tape and marker, bagging and labelling bolts and small parts, etc. It's really easy to get excited and just start unbolting junk and throwing bolts in a box. When you do that you end up with a car that isn't going to run again.
I would also hesitate to change too much during the process. It's also easy to have so many new things that it makes troubleshooting after the fact a massive pain in the ***.
All that said, options for you -
- Rebuild it yourself. By far the cheapest but the most fraught with potential problems. It also needs the most of your time. On the surface, rebuilding a rotary isn't that hard, but there's lots of small things that makes the difference between a motor that's awesome and a motor that's going to need to come out again in 6 months. Only go this route if you are up to the task, have friends that can help, and you aren't afraid of having to do EVERYTHING again because you screwed up.
- Send the short block to a shop for rebuild. This will require you to pull the motor and break it down to the short block. It's hard to say if this will be cheaper than a new Mazda engine, it depends on the condition of the components in your engine.
- Get a new Mazda crate engine and swap in. Definitely an easier option and you can possibly sell the old motor as a whole or parts to recoup some costs.
- Send the long block to a shop for rebuild. Some shops many not want to do this, however.
- Send the whole car to a shop for everything. Most expensive, but requires no work on your end except writing a check.
I'm not sure if there are shops near Vegas, I seem to remember a rotary shop in Arizona at some point. SoCal isn't far of a drive, and there's shops like Mazdatrix there.
Again, the big thing is figuring out scope of work. Let us know what you're planning, what you want to use the car for, what is your goal for power, and we can give some pointers.
From what I've seen of new crate engines, it is worthwhile getting opened up to check and reseal (and possibly ported while you're at it if that's your thing) because the factory tolerances are not great. The major advantage of the crate engine is that you're starting with 100% fresh plates, housings and rotors.
The engines at the factory are built to an assembly line tolerance. Side seal clearances aren't as tight as a good engine builder can do, but that's about it. You can always improve upon it, but whether taking the whole thing apart and going through it is worth it for you is a tricky call to make.
There's a ton of people that have run these engines as-is dropped in the car and they're great. It's as close as you can get to what the engine would have been when the car was new. That also has the "bad" of a production line engine, a hand-built engine with carefully clearanced side seals can make better compression, but with all new parts you will have amazing compression to begin with. If "perfect" is 100, the stock engine is probably in the 90's, with an engine with all new parts with clearanced seals being like a 98 or 99.
Side seals are really the only thing in the engine that's fit. Everything else is take seal A, drop in groove B.
I've sold more new 13brew motors that probably anyone. We take many of them apart for upgrades. In my experience I have found them to be very good for a factory built motor. Mazda has pretty broad tolerances so of course a professional builder can make them more consistent. They are still the best deal in many cases as getting into replacing hard parts such as housings and rotors often is not cost effective.
Low mileage is a relative term. How low are you talking about. Is the compression good? If truly all you need are seals, replacing the entire engine seems like overkill. That said, the cost of a new engine is probably comparable to the cost of someone replacing your seals (if you replace the new engine yourself). If you want to take a shot at rebuilding it yourself, you may only be into it for $1500, but if it doesn't work out (you do something wrong or there's other engine damage) you're back to where you are now less $1500 (or whatever the price of new seals is these days)
So my low mileage almost factory fd is probably needing a rebuild and coolant seal issues....
Originally Posted by TomU
Low mileage is a relative term. How low are you talking about. Is the compression good? If truly all you need are seals, replacing the entire engine seems like overkill. That said, the cost of a new engine is probably comparable to the cost of someone replacing your seals (if you replace the new engine yourself). If you want to take a shot at rebuilding it yourself, you may only be into it for $1500, but if it doesn't work out (you do something wrong or there's other engine damage) you're back to where you are now less $1500 (or whatever the price of new seals is these days)
Thinking it just needs new seals is not necessarily a good assumption. If the engine did not have regular coolant changes it's likely that the thin rails that hold the coolant seals in place have corroded through, in which case seals alone won't fix it.
Thinking it just needs new seals is not necessarily a good assumption. If the engine did not have regular coolant changes it's likely that the thin rails that hold the coolant seals in place have corroded through, in which case seals alone won't fix it.
^Truth. If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd just buy a new crate motor for the roughly $5k, then tear down the old short block, clean & inspect its parts, and sell all the marketable parts. If he's lucky, and it was JUST a coolant seal, and all the expensive hard parts (housings, plates, rotors, etc.) are in great shape, those parts will sell quickly. If he does the engine remove & re-install work himself, the sale of the old engine parts can reduce the net cost of the new block substantially.
I have used Rotary Resurrection in the past. If you are willing to pull the motor, remove everything to the short block and ship it to Kevin, he will do a standard rebuild for $1800. You can see the pricing and what it covers on his website. I had to get my engine rebuild because I had a coolant seal failure. I have been running on this rebuild for 30K with no problems.
OP are you going to change the turbos / go single turbo or not? That affects your budget allocation. Unless the pool of money expands, you need to scale your ambitions for the turbo(s) and supporting mods to go along with the engine. What are the goals for the car? If it's keeping it close to stock, maybe you get a set of new turbos and a reman engine and just put them all back in. If you're talking about a big single, can you afford expensive build + single turbo stuff? you could easily end up way over $10k as the costs accumulate.
As for porting, the larger you port the engine the less low end and mid range power you have ("big cam" vs stockish cam on a pushrod muscle car). You don't get something for nothing, so you've got to assess the goals for the car.
the importance of this thread is paramount. the common assumptions people make about rebuilds are all being squashed and clarified and by heavy hitters no less. "a rebuild is not just seals" is probably the most important statement here.
So with it being as is.. it is recommended to Not drive this much or if at all till a rebuild or replacement is in order?
it started up fine again the day after it’s been sitting. Or if it cools off for over an hour I think it starts back up ok. Just when I turn it off and let it sit for maybe 5-15 min... if I restart it right after I shut it off then it can restart usually ok.
my end goal is to go single turbo for sure. Maybe something in the 400-500whp. Because I’d like to clear up the rats nest, simplify the turbo systems etc and upgrade stuff as I am replacing stock original parts... Engine bay as is currently Just got some fikse fm5 on the fd Eventually I’d like to sandblast or take off the yellow paint off of the wheels..
I would drive it but lightly and not on a long car trip or something. The damage is done at this point, but you want to keep things going so the engine doesn't sit in a puddle of water. It's also just good to exercise the car - keep the brakes moving, trans moving, etc.
Single turbo making that power sounds fun, but most anything over 400hp is going to be pretty traction limited. I'm probably 350hp with my twins and took it out on a 40 degree day - had ZERO traction in any gear, that's with good 255 width tires on the back. When warm it's better but still something to think about.
The other big thing is that power level is going to require a good tune to be drivable and reliable - do you have someone that can tune?
Finally the other consideration is cost. Going to big power means big fuel, big clutch, etc. etc. - that's more money and more money. Personally I'd get everything you can out of the twins then look at going single.
Wow that’s good 350whp out of stock twins? Is that maxed out? I saw some oil leaking on the stock twins so I thought if I took the motor out might as well replace
400whp is possible out of a 62-66mn turbo at medium boost right like under 25psi
Might be a silly question.. but I got invited to my first track day and I’d rather take the fd out vs the Supra. Supra is pretty much all stock and not as fast or fun as the fd 😅
but in the current state if I do a few laps on the fd hard would it kill the coolant seal faster or worse?
it has been starting a little better than a few weeks back... maybe changing the plugs and or oil would help too..?
I don't recommend it. If you overheat the motor you can warp a rotor housing which will lead to a more expensive rebuild. If you plan to go with a brand new motor then go for it.
Might be a silly question.. but I got invited to my first track day and I’d rather take the fd out vs the Supra. Supra is pretty much all stock and not as fast or fun as the fd 😅
but in the current state if I do a few laps on the fd hard would it kill the coolant seal faster or worse?
it has been starting a little better than a few weeks back... maybe changing the plugs and or oil would help too..?
If you plan to rebuild, then no. If you plan to replace, than yes. I've gotten several track days out of essentially a dead motor. They all got me home (twice), but were trashed. If you go for it, best to trailer it just in case
Also even if you plan on swapping, if you turn the current motor into a junk pile that means you can't recoup some costs selling irons, rotors, housings, etc. Each main hard part of a motor can fetch $150-300 if it's in useable shape.
