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I don't disagree with you regarding the benifits of owning an appreciating asset, but just for conversations sake, I'd like to rebut that notion and hear your thoughts:
Since neither of us ever plan on selling (and gaining profits that way), in order for this sentiment to be true, we should be using the FD as a wealth asset within our financial portfolio (per say). And I'm assuming you are in the same boat as me with paying more and more each year in insurance to protect that asset.....So, does the wealth the FD adds overcome the added costs to protect it each year? I would argue no.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong (logic would dictate you are correct), and as an enthusiast I don't care one way or another....I'm going to own these things cause I want to. There's nothing rational about my affinity for these cars. If all this conversation proves is: "It doesn't matter what the general valuation of an FD is, we love the cars, so we will own them." I still think it's a fun discussion.
Oh, thank you for listening!
I agree with you completely. The car is appreciating but, you’re right, it doesn’t “really” matter when you consider the money put into gas/oil, insurance, maintenance, and the like. Nah, the FD doesn’t add wealth in my opinion. Not enough to really move the needle. Especially if you are an individual who actually uses it.
Maybe it will work out for my kids who won’t have to pay anything for them LOL, but I suspect over a 30+ year span I personally wouldn’t come out “on top” by any means. I would imagine that it is quite the contrary actually. These cars will likely get exponentially more expensive to run and maintain as time goes on.
I was pointing out a potential “pro” of the current situation along with the other examples. Having a car that appreciates in value isn’t inherently a “bad” thing if you are going to own one anyway. If anything it’s 50% psychological and 50% justifying another car purchase to your spouse when the opportunity presents itself at the right price! “At least this one isn’t worthless like the other cars I bought!”
The car “appreciating” in value doesn’t meant that I’m gaining wealth though because I, like you, value driving above all. That is, unless we are measuring wealth in smiles per gallon!
BUT it's a double edge sword. If they stayed relatively cheep, then any kid could grab them up and ruin them or blow them up.....then we'd probably be in this same situation, so it's a loose-loose. Just kind of a bummer cause I started down this rotary rabbit hole over 20 years ago, and I'd want to have the cars I have whether they were "popular" or not, but had I not gotten my FD and JC when I did, I wouldn't be able to afford them now. I've used the analogy of finding an underground band you really like. You want to tell everyone about them, and want everyone to listen to them...but when they get popular, you're almost resentful haha. I'm not resentful of the rotary getting all this attention it's gotten over the past few years....but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for the days when the rotary community was a small niche of the automotive community as a whole.
Apart from the ability to buy cheap USED parts, I see nothing but downside to cheap FDs. FD were very cheap from ~2000 to ~2015 and they were scrapped at an astonishing rate. Looking at registration data, by 2005 over 4000 FD were already off the road (from an initial ~13k); in the next 10 years, another 4000 disappeared - over one per day. This attrition rate appears to have dramatically slowed down after 2015 when prices started increasing - and kids with no money stopped being able to afford them.
Every car gone reduces the market size and decreases Mazda's incentive to continue producing parts (like new engines!), decreases the supply of good rotary engine rebuilders, and reduces aftermarket development of cool new parts. I love that companies like Sake Bomb Garage exists and have web pages with an array of FD products like this. Or that there are a decent number of companies in the US that can rebuild and upgrade engines.
And these cars are not that expensive. A loaded new Camry is about $40k now.
Thank you for answering and providing your points of view. They have merit, I must add.
Originally Posted by bossbattleRX7
...am somewhat dismayed to see the popularity of these cars explode this way. I didn’t buy them to turn a profit or make a buck, nor did I want to get a “hyped” car for “fame.” I am simply a massive fan of these cars.
Now I found this part of your post quite interesting. From a long time owner's perspective (98'), these cars have been rather popular since 2001 (right after F&F came out). It is just that finally, the kids that revered these cars have reached the point in their life where they can truly afford one. And because of the demand the prices are increasing.
Seriously, pre-F&F people used to constantly ask me what kind of car it was as hardly anybody ever saw one nor heard of them either. Back then the FD stood out like crazy because if you think about what was available in the 90's, the FD was (is) a style masterpiece with nothing (IMO) other than a supercar coming close to being as beautiful. So it truly felt like belonging to a secret club. Sure the FDs would get featured from time to time on sport compact car magazines and what not but nothing like it became after F&F. Because after that the FD was everywhere, video games, magazines, ect. And since then only a handful of people have asked me what my car is but instead they recognize it and so I get people that wave, smile, ask to shake hands, and some have even followed me to take a pic. So from my perspective the popularity has been there for quite some time. The only difference now is the long over due prices for these cars is finally arriving.
Now I found this part of your post quite interesting. From a long time owner's perspective (98'), these cars have been rather popular since 2001 (right after F&F came out). It is just that finally, the kids that revered these cars have reached the point in their life where they can truly afford one. And because of the demand the prices are increasing.
Seriously, pre-F&F people used to constantly ask me what kind of car it was as hardly anybody ever saw one nor heard of them either. Back then the FD stood out like crazy because if you think about what was available in the 90's, the FD was (is) a style masterpiece with nothing (IMO) other than a supercar coming close to being as beautiful. So it truly felt like belonging to a secret club. Sure the FDs would get featured from time to time on sport compact car magazines and what not but nothing like it became after F&F. Because after that the FD was everywhere, video games, magazines, ect. And since then only a handful of people have asked me what my car is but instead they recognize it and so I get people that wave, smile, ask to shake hands, and some have even followed me to take a pic. So from my perspective the popularity has been there for quite some time. The only difference now is the long over due prices for these cars is finally arriving.
I appreciate your perspective. I agree with your post. I am a kid of the Fast & Furious generation and you are absolutely correct. In 7th or 8th grade I received a F&F themed “Zip Zap” remote control car kit. The kit included the Eclipse and RX-7. That is where my interest began (circa 2001).
I joined RX-7 club a couple of years later (old account) and remember folks such as yourself, GoodfellaFD3S, the wonderful Icemark (may he RIP), and so many more.
There is a second wave of popularity though. This second wave is driven by social media. While the Fast & Furious (+ Best Motoring, Initial D, video games) remains a subtext, the popularity on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, etc. has really taken a life of its own.
Every now and then, I go for a drive and encounter kids who yell “RX-7.” These kids, usually on bikes, cannot be older than 14 years old. I find that utterly fascinating. These kids aren’t buying cars, but they are certainly driving social media excitement.
How does that affect prices?
There are a lot of content creators who own RX-7s. Their fans, often on the younger side, watch this content and drive engagement. Folks like TJ Hunt, AdamLZ, and our own Rob Dahm are examples of really popular RX-7 owners among the younger crowd.
These content creators drive awareness among the car buying public.
Like you said @Montego , I (a F&F kid) was a fan of the RX-7 for a while, but actually didn’t get an RX-7 until 2020. The pandemic stopped my “on the go” lifestyle in its tracks and made me slow down and consider my hobbies and interests for the first time in a while. I think there was also a subconscious impact of seeing RX-7s on social media over the years.
Now I am quite involved on social media myself and am witnessing firsthand the enthusiasm for these cars among the younger crowd. Actually most of the crowd seems to be younger than me—even though I am only in my early 30s!
I can imagine that owning an FD was quite arcane in the late ‘90s. I was ten at that time, so I couldn’t hope to understand those days from a car owner’s perspective.
Still, the era of RX-7 club in the early 2000s felt like a far cry from the massive amounts of popularity that the cars are seeing now. Yes, there were magazines, Hot Import Nights, and more…but the “culture” still felt quite underground compared to what we are seeing today.
Last edited by bossbattleRX7; 12-11-21 at 06:35 AM.
Every now and then, I go for a drive and encounter kids who yell “RX-7.” These kids, usually on bikes, cannot be older than 14 years old. I find that utterly fascinating. These kids aren’t buying cars, but they are certainly driving social media excitement.
I've gotten that too, from people in their 20s. Always fun!
As an owner I want prices to go up. The more they go up, the easier it is to justify spending money on it. A new short block at 70% of the cars entire value? No. A new long block at 15% of the cars value? Now it begins to make sense. Ohlins for a $40k car, vs Ohlins for a $10k car... once again, easier to rationalize. And aftermarket parts quality usually jumps with the average value, and the more they go up the more OEM parts will be reproduced by Mazda or aftermarket at an increasing quality. And more reproduction parts means lower cost, overall good for owners. Insurance premiums being the main downside.
While we're talking about valuation and reasons to own an FD........ I bought my first FD back at the end of 1998 and turned her into a show/track/street car. Only wanted to own one, she was my first love and took priority over any woman in my life back then. Culminated with winning best of show at DGRR in 2011 or 2012 which came with a Modified Mag feature (Thanks Phil!):
Shortly after that was published I totaled the car on a damp track at NJMP. Long story as it always is. Thankfully no other cars involved and no one hurt.
Ended up buying my BB '95 car (about 35k miles on chassis) from a longtime customer of my then-shop IRP (Ihor & crew still rocking to this day there) and swapped almost all parts over to it with much help from a group of great Rotorhead friends. As I get older the black suits me more than red to be honest. I remained close with that same seller over the years and he offered to sell me his other FD, a '93 MB with about 900 original miles in 2015. It had been trailered to and from the shop a few times for work so I was familiar with the car. Had also driven it during tuning sessions which was a riot on an odometer with only three digits.
I'm not a guy who looks at an FD as an investment, I love the cars and the engine. The only reason I ended up with this car is because the seller was very persistent with wanting to sell me the car. It's got some mods on it, and they're all the right mods IMO for a nice driving FD. Downpipe, radiator, SBG HIDs, catback, Power FC tuned by Mr. John Renna, etc.
Point being--- as prices have exploded I've been given the advice with "put her back to stock and sell, profit, buy 911!" or some variations of that. Can't bring myself to do it. The mods serve a practical purpose (300 rwhp over 210 rwhp all day every day, plus being able to see at night) and if I was going to get into Porsches I would've done it after stuffing my VR R1 into a wall at 70+ mph.
So it's kind of odd owning a car that I really 'shouldn't' drive but I look at it as my son's future rotary steed. Here she sits with just over 1200 miles (I do take her out occasionally).... never to be seen on Bring a Trailer
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 12-11-21 at 01:33 PM.
Funny you ask, the 9000 rpm Brap-mobile is currently at IRP for a punch list of things, to include getting the ECU into the 2020s (Haltech 2500) and then have Dr. Renna perform his wizardry on the laptop. Looking to tweak the exhaust setup, replace the fuel cell, and in general get the engine bay in tip top shape. Oh, and of course the obligatory Sakebomb Garage Monster BBK front and rear along with a set of FP Spec. It's a slippery slope......
I know this is off topic but I have to ask a few questions:
Rich,
Including your previous red FD first outfitted with BNRs then with GT35R hybrid turbo, you have three FD's that are quite different from each other: Semi stock 2 rotor, large single 2 rotor, no turbo three rotor. Ignoring everything else, rarity, value, ect: From a driver's perspective which one do you prefer and why?
Do you have a picture thread? or if not can you post more pictures of the cars?
Do you still have the picture of you sitting on that chair in the palace? That one is epic and I never forgot it.
I've gotten that too, from people in their 20s. Always fun!
As an owner I want prices to go up. The more they go up, the easier it is to justify spending money on it. A new short block at 70% of the cars entire value? No. A new long block at 15% of the cars value? Now it begins to make sense. Ohlins for a $40k car, vs Ohlins for a $10k car... once again, easier to rationalize. And aftermarket parts quality usually jumps with the average value, and the more they go up the more OEM parts will be reproduced by Mazda or aftermarket at an increasing quality. And more reproduction parts means lower cost, overall good for owners. Insurance premiums being the main downside.
This is rational. Makes sense.
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
While we're talking about valuation and reasons to own an FD........ I bought my first FD back at the end of 1998 and turned her into a show/track/street car. Only wanted to own one, she was my first love and took priority over any woman in my life back then. Culminated with winning best of show at DGRR in 2011 or 2012 which came with a Modified Mag feature (Thanks Phil!):
Shortly after that was published I totaled the car on a damp track at NJMP. Long story as it always is. Thankfully no other cars involved and no one hurt.
Ended up buying my BB '95 car (about 35k miles on chassis) from a longtime customer of my then-shop IRP (Ihor & crew still rocking to this day there) and swapped almost all parts over to it with much help from a group of great Rotorhead friends. As I get older the black suits me more than red to be honest. I remained close with that same seller over the years and he offered to sell me his other FD, a '93 MB with about 900 original miles in 2015. It had been trailered to and from the shop a few times for work so I was familiar with the car. Had also driven it during tuning sessions which was a riot on an odometer with only three digits.
I'm not a guy who looks at an FD as an investment, I love the cars and the engine. The only reason I ended up with this car is because the seller was very persistent with wanting to sell me the car. It's got some mods on it, and they're all the right mods IMO for a nice driving FD. Downpipe, radiator, SBG HIDs, catback, Power FC tuned by Mr. John Renna, etc.
Point being--- as prices have exploded I've been given the advice with "put her back to stock and sell, profit, buy 911!" or some variations of that. Can't bring myself to do it. The mods serve a practical purpose (300 rwhp over 210 rwhp all day every day, plus being able to see at night) and if I was going to get into Porsches I would've done it after stuffing my VR R1 into a wall at 70+ mph.
So it's kind of odd owning a car that I really 'shouldn't' drive but I look at it as my son's future rotary steed. Here she sits with just over 1200 miles (I do take her out occasionally).... never to be seen on Bring a Trailer
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Funny you ask, the 9000 rpm Brap-mobile is currently at IRP for a punch list of things, to include getting the ECU into the 2020s (Haltech 2500) and then have Dr. Renna perform his wizardry on the laptop. Looking to tweak the exhaust setup, replace the fuel cell, and in general get the engine bay in tip top shape. Oh, and of course the obligatory Sakebomb Garage Monster BBK front and rear along with a set of FP Spec. It's a slippery slope......
Well said on both posts! Hopefully I get to see these cars in person some day in the not too distant future.
12-09-21, 05:22 PM
“At least this one isn’t worthless like the other cars I bought!”
