Wanting to get into a "cheap" FD?
12-01-21, 01:09 PM
#1
Wanting to get into a "cheap" FD?
After reading this listing on BaT, I think this might be the right opportunity for someone looking into getting into a relatively cheap FD. Car has some rust spots and inoperable gauges which I would assume would drive the price down. Link down below.
1994 Mazda RX-7 5-Speed for sale on BaT Auctions - ending December 6 (Lot #60,966) | Bring a Trailer
1994 Mazda RX-7 5-Speed for sale on BaT Auctions - ending December 6 (Lot #60,966) | Bring a Trailer
12-01-21, 01:45 PM
#3
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
I think it has a Greddy SP exhaust, one of the old-school "gentlemanly" exhausts out there. @djseven would approve 
This would definitely be a solid car for someone - put some TLC into it and you'd have a great reliable fun car.
Dale
This would definitely be a solid car for someone - put some TLC into it and you'd have a great reliable fun car.
Dale
12-02-21, 07:46 AM
#4
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
"The seller reports the presence of smoke coming from the engine bay when the car is up to temperature." 
Any car from Long Island is going to have surface oxidation and rust reminiscent of many of the JDM cars we see come over from the Motherland. An island is an island
I didn't look too hard at the ad, but that rear wheel fitment is something else...... in one shot it looks like the car might just tilt over they're tucked in so much.
Any car from Long Island is going to have surface oxidation and rust reminiscent of many of the JDM cars we see come over from the Motherland. An island is an island
I didn't look too hard at the ad, but that rear wheel fitment is something else...... in one shot it looks like the car might just tilt over they're tucked in so much.
12-02-21, 01:36 PM
#5
"The seller reports the presence of smoke coming from the engine bay when the car is up to temperature."
Any car from Long Island is going to have surface oxidation and rust reminiscent of many of the JDM cars we see come over from the Motherland. An island is an island
I didn't look too hard at the ad, but that rear wheel fitment is something else...... in one shot it looks like the car might just tilt over they're tucked in so much.
Any car from Long Island is going to have surface oxidation and rust reminiscent of many of the JDM cars we see come over from the Motherland. An island is an island
I didn't look too hard at the ad, but that rear wheel fitment is something else...... in one shot it looks like the car might just tilt over they're tucked in so much.
She's definitely rough for certain. At the price I believe this car will end up going for (mid-low 20s), I think is a lot of peoples easiest route into a FD for the foreseeable future. I'm even entertaining the idea of getting involved myself...just don't know if I'd be willing to commit that much time and money into a second FD with a new born on the way. It's literally gna need everything and then some, I believe you would agree with me on that one.
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12-06-21, 07:39 AM
#8
Right. As I am watching the auction now ($26,000 so far), I think this is the clearest picture yet that the days of the “cheap” FD are officially over..
12-06-21, 02:29 PM
#11
There are a ton of factors that have played into the hyperinflation of these (and other Japanese 'legends') over the past year and a half and most have been talked about at nauseum, but one factor I think gets overlooked is the lack of thorough understanding of the value of these cars by this new buyer pool. Those of us that have been on the forum for many years have a good grasp on the value of an FD (or any of the rotary cars really). What I think has happened over the last year is, people are jumping on the bandwagon and want to get into these cars, so they see a sale add (that may be unrealistically inflated) and just assume that is the value of that car. They don't understand that if you overpay for a "project FD," you can end up upside down REALLY fast. These cars can nickel and dime you to death (ask me how I know). What's worse is, if someone with some real knowledge comes into, say a facebook add that is overvalued, and calls the seller out, they are labeled a 'hater' or 'out of touch with the market.' Back when the forums were the main avenue for trading these cars, we could kind of keep the price gouging to a minimum, but now there are so many avenues for people to artificially inflate the prices, which in turn actually inflates the prices (if that makes sense).
Think of it this way, as recently as 3-4 years ago, prices on here were steadily increasing (as you would imagine). People here knew what they had, and prices were reasonable [pristine examples pulled a premium; middle of the road examples reflected the real-world cost to get them back to a top notch car; and rollers/projects were cheep (again, because it costs a lot of money to get them back to working/complete order)]. Back then, you could still find great deals outside of the forum. People have historically been scared of these cars, so the 'outsiders' were always happy to unload them. Now, it's the opposite. Prices outside of the forum seem to be much higher than the prices of cars on here, and there are VERY FEW cars listed for sale on here compared to just 2-3 years ago (again, many factors have caused the classifieds to dry up here).
Like I said, this isn't the only factor in the value increase. The thirty-somethings gaining wealth, the youtube/instagram hype, the speculator/collector market, and (possibly most notably) nostalgia all compound into the inflation. And I'm not saying that these cars shouldn't be worth more than they were a few years ago, but I'm curious what others here think of this notion I'm proposing. I've been watching the FD market (cars and parts) over the last 10 years, and I really do think there is price gouging going on lately.
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Toadman (12-11-21)
12-06-21, 03:59 PM
#13
What I think has happened over the last year is, people are jumping on the bandwagon and want to get into these cars, so they see a sale add (that may be unrealistically inflated) and just assume that is the value of that car. They don't understand that if you overpay for a "project FD," you can end up upside down REALLY fast. These cars can nickel and dime you to death (ask me how I know). What's worse is, if someone with some real knowledge comes into, say a facebook add that is overvalued, and calls the seller out, they are labeled a 'hater' or 'out of touch with the market.' Back when the forums were the main avenue for trading these cars, we could kind of keep the price gouging to a minimum, but now there are so many avenues for people to artificially inflate the prices, which in turn actually inflates the prices (if that makes sense).
The social media factor is one I really struggle with when I meet rotary people. You'd be surprised how many of them buy just for the social media aspect. Don't know the first or last thing about them, only god knows when it last had an oil change, but has bags, wide stancy boy wheels, and a GT wing...it drives me up a wall, but hey what can you do? We are witnessing something that will not influence car prices, but car culture in general for the future and I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan.
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Toadman (12-11-21)
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Toadman (12-11-21)
12-07-21, 07:35 AM
#16
Ban Peak
iTrader: (49)
Think of it this way, as recently as 3-4 years ago, prices on here were steadily increasing (as you would imagine). People here knew what they had, and prices were reasonable [pristine examples pulled a premium; middle of the road examples reflected the real-world cost to get them back to a top notch car; and rollers/projects were cheep (again, because it costs a lot of money to get them back to working/complete order)]. Back then, you could still find great deals outside of the forum. People have historically been scared of these cars, so the 'outsiders' were always happy to unload them. Now, it's the opposite. Prices outside of the forum seem to be much higher than the prices of cars on here, and there are VERY FEW cars listed for sale on here compared to just 2-3 years ago (again, many factors have caused the classifieds to dry up here).
I'm not saying that these cars shouldn't be worth more than they were a few years ago, but I'm curious what others here think of this notion I'm proposing. I've been watching the FD market (cars and parts) over the last 10 years, and I really do think there is price gouging going on lately.
I'm not saying that these cars shouldn't be worth more than they were a few years ago, but I'm curious what others here think of this notion I'm proposing. I've been watching the FD market (cars and parts) over the last 10 years, and I really do think there is price gouging going on lately.
I couldn't believe the prices of the cars but was still searching for a deal to part out and found one, the most expensive one yet. After picking it and the spare parts it came with up I was in for about $22k. This car had a 7/10 body and a 6/10 black interior but it came with a lot of value in new in box parts and a freshly rebuilt crated shortblock. Eagerly, I dove into the car to make a more detailed assessment and got sick to my stomach. It was worse than presented and than my initial review after driving 8 hours and spending the night and some big ticket parts were left out. I contacted the seller and after some drawn out back and for he found and sent me the thing he left out. I felt better after that and had decided with the price of rollers lately I'd do some work to fix up the car and flip it. I began to loosely float it when people would post a WTB and got some serious interest, I explained what the situation was but some people fell off. Finally, a guy stuck and was very persuasive, I told him to give me a week to get the car ready and I'd sell it for $14k cash. He was in so I got the title sorted out and in my name and began to work on the car, he kept pushing and ended up coming at 1:00 a.m. on a weeknight and I finished up my work shortly before he arrived and turned the car over as promised. I got my cash and he left and I decided at that point I was out of parting out unless I came across a great deal. I sold the rest of the parts I had gotten with the car, netted $4k over my total investment and kept the crated shortblock.
To me, a "long time" community member, we have reached insanity an I missed my opportunity to buy and store a nice low mile car. The great deals are gone and we are left in an environment where an ate up decent runner with a 6/10 interior and high mileage engine sells for $30k+ after fees. I don't even feel comfortable saying "sell high while you can folks" because I feel like the current market is a now normalized.
Enjoy what you have and if you're feeling price out past the point of enjoyment sell it.
I was getting way better deal with $12k in 2011, all with less than 1/2 the mileage
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Gear2078 (01-03-22)
12-07-21, 11:12 PM
#20
BaT just reflects the overall market. If there were a magical place to buy cheaper FDs, there would be no shortage of people buying them for resale on BaT.
Remember, lots of interesting older cars have increased in value by 30-50% in the last 12 months. FD prices are simply reflecting that trend (and are probably at the lower end of that trend compared to some cars).
I really don't understand any of the malarkey above about people being clueless and somehow overpaying out of cluelessness. Even a casual look at various classified sites over a few weeks will reveal that there is a tiny supply of these cars (particularly non-trashed ones) and there are lots of people who really want one.
Remember, lots of interesting older cars have increased in value by 30-50% in the last 12 months. FD prices are simply reflecting that trend (and are probably at the lower end of that trend compared to some cars).
I really don't understand any of the malarkey above about people being clueless and somehow overpaying out of cluelessness. Even a casual look at various classified sites over a few weeks will reveal that there is a tiny supply of these cars (particularly non-trashed ones) and there are lots of people who really want one.
12-08-21, 12:10 AM
#21
So you want our cars to remain inexpensive? Since you already own an FD, I am really curious on your reasoning and so could you please expand on that? Cheaper parts maybe (because they are through the roof as well)
Last edited by Montego; 12-08-21 at 12:13 AM.
12-08-21, 07:31 PM
#22
I believe BaT to be mostly speculators cashing-in on markets for inflation-resistant assets (I'm talking more about the air cooled Porsches and the like on BaT), which raises everything else and makes it all less fun and affordable. It's good business, but I rather the speculators wreak havoc on the mechanical watch market and leave the cars alone. I really do not care if the cars would remain inexpensive, honestly. Mine is not in the category as those on BaT. At least I don't think it is.
I'm starting to get more interested in something I can drive on track that is more affordable to maintain and get parts for. That is the effect BaT has on my car.
12-09-21, 10:46 AM
#23
So this is something my dad pointed out when he witnessed the most recent prices for Supra's (he didn't believe me when I told him you could buy a new Supra cheaper than the old one). Back when they were new (and this goes for the FD as well) he said dealerships couldn't give them away. Now the kids of that era have money and they're fighting over them. And I get it because there are a lot of cars I'd buy if money was no object, for no better reason that they were in my Hot Wheels set back in 1997. Is it a good car? Who cares if you have the money.
The social media factor is one I really struggle with when I meet rotary people. You'd be surprised how many of them buy just for the social media aspect. Don't know the first or last thing about them, only god knows when it last had an oil change, but has bags, wide stancy boy wheels, and a GT wing...it drives me up a wall, but hey what can you do? We are witnessing something that will not influence car prices, but car culture in general for the future and I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan.
The social media factor is one I really struggle with when I meet rotary people. You'd be surprised how many of them buy just for the social media aspect. Don't know the first or last thing about them, only god knows when it last had an oil change, but has bags, wide stancy boy wheels, and a GT wing...it drives me up a wall, but hey what can you do? We are witnessing something that will not influence car prices, but car culture in general for the future and I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan.
I like that you brought up Supra prices, because I really think you can draw a line back to about 3-4 years ago when the A80 prices started to creep into the $80K range at auction. I believe that's really when the 90s Japanese car boom began. Then the 25 year cars coming to market just poured gas on the fire. I figured this boom would come, but it has happened WAY sooner than I had anticipated. I assumed I'd be in my 40s or 50s when it happened.
Then something happened, Facebook added shipping to Marketplace and monetized it which crushed local listings and changed the "for sale" group algorithms. The groups stopped showing up in peoples news feeds regularly and the result was less exposure. The lower exposure stagnated parts sales and prices but started to drive prices of the cars up because they were no longer common to see, then we got the Biden bucks and prices of all used things jumped. A $15k roller was no longer trash talked but praised as being a good deal, a $20k piece of crap with a beat tan interior and bad paint was now a decent buy because it was "complete".
6 years later, and I'm stuck insuring my car for an agreed value over $30K because I know what it would take to reproduce in today's market, even though if I evaluated my car honestly, it would probably only be worth $10-12K as it sits in a pre-boom economy. I'm to the point now where I'm not hesitant to drive the car....but I am nervous if anything ever happened, I'd never be able to afford some of the 'cool' parts I've put onto the car (if I could event find them again).
BUT it's a double edge sword. If they stayed relatively cheep, then any kid could grab them up and ruin them or blow them up.....then we'd probably be in this same situation, so it's a loose-loose. Just kind of a bummer cause I started down this rotary rabbit hole over 20 years ago, and I'd want to have the cars I have whether they were "popular" or not, but had I not gotten my FD and JC when I did, I wouldn't be able to afford them now. I've used the analogy of finding an underground band you really like. You want to tell everyone about them, and want everyone to listen to them...but when they get popular, you're almost resentful haha. I'm not resentful of the rotary getting all this attention it's gotten over the past few years....but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for the days when the rotary community was a small niche of the automotive community as a whole.
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12-09-21, 11:25 AM
#24
Yep, and this is really not a new phenomenon. The same thing happened back when the baby boomers got older and the prices of classic muscle cars went through the roof (the cars they lusted after during their younger and high school days became the hot commodity when they got older). I think you can draw a direct correlation from that to what's happening now. Again, I'm certainly not the first to bring this stuff up, but I think the situation goes a lot deeper than this surface level correlation. Social media (and the internet in general) is a huge variable this time around. I think this variable has speed up the entire nostalgia cycle (not just in the automotive world), though throughout recent history times of civil/social/financial unrest have also speed up the nostalgia cycle, so there's that factor as well (but that may be going a bit deeper than necessary for this discussion haha).
I like that you brought up Supra prices, because I really think you can draw a line back to about 3-4 years ago when the A80 prices started to creep into the $80K range at auction. I believe that's really when the 90s Japanese car boom began. Then the 25 year cars coming to market just poured gas on the fire. I figured this boom would come, but it has happened WAY sooner than I had anticipated. I assumed I'd be in my 40s or 50s when it happened.
I agree with your entire post, but I wanted to bring this point up specifically. Thank you for pointing this out. In all the scrutinizing I've done within the market for these cars over the past 10 or more years.....I never factored this in (if I'm honest, I never really knew of this phenomenon). The scarcity (whether perceived or real) has certainly effected pricing of parts and cars. That's a great point. I'll have to go back and adjust my theory to accommodate this new info.
Speaking only for myself, I am bummed at how high the market has gone for these cars. I actually sought after a less than ideal car to buy. Of course, one of the reasons was that's all I could afford at the time....But the main reason was, I didn't want to get a car so nice and pristine that would make me second guess doing all the mods I wanted to do to the car. Or worse, was such a nice car I would hesitate to drive it, let alone track the car.
6 years later, and I'm stuck insuring my car for an agreed value over $30K because I know what it would take to reproduce in today's market, even though if I evaluated my car honestly, it would probably only be worth $10-12K as it sits in a pre-boom economy. I'm to the point now where I'm not hesitant to drive the car....but I am nervous if anything ever happened, I'd never be able to afford some of the 'cool' parts I've put onto the car (if I could event find them again).
BUT it's a double edge sword. If they stayed relatively cheep, then any kid could grab them up and ruin them or blow them up.....then we'd probably be in this same situation, so it's a loose-loose. Just kind of a bummer cause I started down this rotary rabbit hole over 20 years ago, and I'd want to have the cars I have whether they were "popular" or not, but had I not gotten my FD and JC when I did, I wouldn't be able to afford them now. I've used the analogy of finding an underground band you really like. You want to tell everyone about them, and want everyone to listen to them...but when they get popular, you're almost resentful haha. I'm not resentful of the rotary getting all this attention it's gotten over the past few years....but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for the days when the rotary community was a small niche of the automotive community as a whole.
I like that you brought up Supra prices, because I really think you can draw a line back to about 3-4 years ago when the A80 prices started to creep into the $80K range at auction. I believe that's really when the 90s Japanese car boom began. Then the 25 year cars coming to market just poured gas on the fire. I figured this boom would come, but it has happened WAY sooner than I had anticipated. I assumed I'd be in my 40s or 50s when it happened.
I agree with your entire post, but I wanted to bring this point up specifically. Thank you for pointing this out. In all the scrutinizing I've done within the market for these cars over the past 10 or more years.....I never factored this in (if I'm honest, I never really knew of this phenomenon). The scarcity (whether perceived or real) has certainly effected pricing of parts and cars. That's a great point. I'll have to go back and adjust my theory to accommodate this new info.
Speaking only for myself, I am bummed at how high the market has gone for these cars. I actually sought after a less than ideal car to buy. Of course, one of the reasons was that's all I could afford at the time....But the main reason was, I didn't want to get a car so nice and pristine that would make me second guess doing all the mods I wanted to do to the car. Or worse, was such a nice car I would hesitate to drive it, let alone track the car.
6 years later, and I'm stuck insuring my car for an agreed value over $30K because I know what it would take to reproduce in today's market, even though if I evaluated my car honestly, it would probably only be worth $10-12K as it sits in a pre-boom economy. I'm to the point now where I'm not hesitant to drive the car....but I am nervous if anything ever happened, I'd never be able to afford some of the 'cool' parts I've put onto the car (if I could event find them again).
BUT it's a double edge sword. If they stayed relatively cheep, then any kid could grab them up and ruin them or blow them up.....then we'd probably be in this same situation, so it's a loose-loose. Just kind of a bummer cause I started down this rotary rabbit hole over 20 years ago, and I'd want to have the cars I have whether they were "popular" or not, but had I not gotten my FD and JC when I did, I wouldn't be able to afford them now. I've used the analogy of finding an underground band you really like. You want to tell everyone about them, and want everyone to listen to them...but when they get popular, you're almost resentful haha. I'm not resentful of the rotary getting all this attention it's gotten over the past few years....but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for the days when the rotary community was a small niche of the automotive community as a whole.
There are benefits of course. For example, the popularity has led to Mazda’s heritage parts program and increased aftermarket support. It has also ensured that our favorite rotary shops will never have a slow day. Lastly—if I speak practically—it’s objectively beneficial to own a car that has appreciated in value.
I wouldn’t necessarily want to change this situation, but the “underground band” example in the above post is a perfect way to describe the mixed feelings I have.
Really well said, @REnaissance_Sle7in !
Last edited by bossbattleRX7; 12-09-21 at 11:27 AM.
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12-09-21, 02:36 PM
#25
This is an excellent post that tracks with my feelings on the matter. I feel exactly the same way. I wanted an FD for many many years, have two of them now (after a very long wait), and am somewhat dismayed to see the popularity of these cars explode this way. I didn’t buy them to turn a profit or make a buck, nor did I want to get a “hyped” car for “fame.” I am simply a massive fan of these cars.
There are benefits of course. For example, the popularity has led to Mazda’s heritage parts program and increased aftermarket support. It has also ensured that our favorite rotary shops will never have a slow day. Lastly—if I speak practically—it’s objectively beneficial to own a car that has appreciated in value.
I wouldn’t necessarily want to change this situation, but the “underground band” example in the above post is a perfect way to describe the mixed feelings I have.
Really well said, @REnaissance_Sle7in !
There are benefits of course. For example, the popularity has led to Mazda’s heritage parts program and increased aftermarket support. It has also ensured that our favorite rotary shops will never have a slow day. Lastly—if I speak practically—it’s objectively beneficial to own a car that has appreciated in value.
I wouldn’t necessarily want to change this situation, but the “underground band” example in the above post is a perfect way to describe the mixed feelings I have.
Really well said, @REnaissance_Sle7in !
I don't disagree with you regarding the benifits of owning an appreciating asset, but just for conversations sake, I'd like to rebut that notion and hear your thoughts:
Since neither of us ever plan on selling (and gaining profits that way), in order for this sentiment to be true, we should be using the FD as a wealth asset within our financial portfolio (per say). And I'm assuming you are in the same boat as me with paying more and more each year in insurance to protect that asset.....So, does the wealth the FD adds overcome the added costs to protect it each year? I would argue no.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong (logic would dictate you are correct), and as an enthusiast I don't care one way or another....I'm going to own these things cause I want to. There's nothing rational about my affinity for these cars. If all this conversation proves is: "It doesn't matter what the general valuation of an FD is, we love the cars, so we will own them." I still think it's a fun discussion.
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