my friend parted out a 95 miata, and as soon as the engine was out of the car, i grabbed an FC center iron, oil pan and engine mounts, and the results were disappointing. i think a 13B miata, might be harder than the 20B FD.

the easy 13B miata swap is the NC, as they share so many parts, i think the MSP is a bolt in. wiring is the adventure there

 

looking at the new Miata with 2250 lbs and 155hp so only a slight improvement on power to weight from the outgoing model I can imagine Mazda doing something similar with the supposed new RX-7...

the 2002 FD had 280 hp on a 2750lbs car or aprox 10 lbs per hp so they will probably use a stretched NC Miata chassis, in coupe form, 2600 lbs and 300hp 16x naturally aspirated

 

looking at the new Miata with 2250 lbs and 155hp so only a slight improvement on power to weight from the outgoing model I can imagine Mazda doing something similar with the supposed new RX-7...

the 2002 FD had 280 hp on a 2750lbs car or aprox 10 lbs per hp so they will probably use a stretched NC Miata chassis, in coupe form, 2600 lbs and 300hp 16x naturally aspirated

Probably, but...

Each generation Miata has been built to be as close to the spirit of the original Miata formula as possible. Let us hope they do the same for the new RX-7.

The FD was a car that as fast as its "Japanese muscle" brethren- Supra, Skyline, NSX.

Lets hope they stick to that formula.

If not with the "50 years of Wankel" MX-5 based RX-7 they release in 2017 then with the "100 years of Mazda" RX-8 based RX-9 supercar they release in 2020.

 

I've driven a buddies first gen Miata with a Jackson racing Supercharger and some other bits. More horsepower and less weight than the new one and my feeling was even that was in no way "excessive"... more like "about right" or "just enough"... my Dad's stock one was positively anemic.

All I'm saying is, Mazda is a chronic over promiser/under deliverer in the gonads department, so a 440+ hp RX7 out of the blue after they were talking about a (no-doubt under-powered) BRZ competitor seems a bit far-fetched.

 

i agree. 440hp Rx7 seems pie in the sky. i guess we'll see though.

BTW you should go for a ride in my buddies 340rwhp miata, its faster than stupid fast, so its right between a great idea and terrifying

 

Yep

If it's low on power it will be low on sales and fail miserably.

The new miata doesn't stand a chance at 2200 pounds and 175 HP it needed at least 200 and even then it's a week early 2000s sports car.

No thanks I'll go buy a used dime a dozen boxster or S2k with better looks and performance.

I predict the new miata will be the least sold of all the miata models

http://www.carmax.com/search?search=...results%20page

http://www.carmax.com/search?search=...results%20page

 

The new miata doesn't stand a chance at 2200 pounds and 175 HP it needed at least 200 and even then it's a week early 2000s sports car.

I think the declining sales of Miatas are largely due to the fact that when it was released there was NOTHING to buy in the segment so sales were huge.

Once the Miata was an established sales success and later generations were heavier and heavier perspective Miata buyers could choose between an older more pure Miata for less $ or a new Miata OR one of the competitor cars that jumped onto the Miata bandwagon like the S2000.

I predict the new miata will be the least sold of all the miata models

Perhaps, but it is the 1st Miata I am interested in despite my hate of convertables (please please make a coupe Mazda). Finally it looks some nice long travel suspension like NC Miata without the ugly looks and weight of its RX-8 heritage.

Engines/power are the easiest things to fix- chassis fundamentals the hardest.

If the new RX-7 sucks and has a 300hp motor that doesn't suck, the obvious choice is slam that motor into a ND Miata which also doesn't suck for 300hp/2,200lbs fun machine.

If Mazda does make a RX-9 high power "supercar" you do realize how big the chances are it will suck like the 20B JC Cosmo did don't you?

Oh, it costs $65,000?

Better add 1,000lbs of luxury/convenience/comfortable seating for whole family the buyers in that segment will demand of an expensive Japanese car.

Great, its 3,600lbs and 450hp. You going to race that hog or steal the engine and put it the 2,600lb Miata based RX-7 or 2,200lb Miata?

Familiar sounding scenario isn't it?

 

the original Miata was a really great car. its FUN.

its been a while since i drove an NC. on paper its quite good, but in the flesh it is not fun.

its interesting, i though the miata had an empty market segment too, but Alfa had actually just revised the spider, and mercury had the capri. the capri misses the mark, its essentially what Mazda was playing with in 83, and the Spider being from 1967 was perhaps past it.

a second point, i bought an MGB a few weeks ago, and its a 1980 model, with all of its emission gear on it, which takes it from 95hp to like 70. so it is asthmatic, but it still does have this certain something, it is nice to drive it. it does put into perspective how amazing the 79 Rx7 was though, the Rx7 must have seemed like it was from the 24th and a half century

 

I agree the 1st gen miata had great timing. The 3rd gen came out 10 years too soon and this miata is 10 years too late LOL

I need to see it in person but on paper I'm confused or things just aren't all working together for me. Is it a bmw, an s2k....even the front fenders don't work for me I'm thinking ewww like 1970s tr7 or something. I don't know I'm just not feeling it.

However even if it is a looker it's power to weight is anemic (just read the power is 155 wow) to say the least.

 

Honestly I think it all depends on what roles such a car would have to fulfill. I don't think that Mazda ever intended the 20b cosmo as a sports car (or even as a supercar). Merely as a powerful luxury car.
The closest thing to a supercar that Mazda ever made was the FD, and I don't think that it came out that bad.

Honestly, if I were at the head of ANY company that was about to turn 100 years old, I'd make DAMN sure to celebrate that achievement properly. In the case of a car company, that would mean making the best car in the history of the company. For Mazda that means doing something better than the FD, which is no small feat.

Andrea.

 

A new RX-7 *in the spirit of the original* would be perfect!
In 1979 the RX-7 was ~80% the price, weight, and horsepower of a Z, slightly quicker in a straight line, and significantly quicker around the track.
A new one at the same price/weight/power relative to the current Z would be ~$26,500, 265hp, 2650 lb.
I tell you the world NEEDS such a sports car now! I know I do, anyway...

 

I dont doubt that on bit however, if their using direct injection (in conjunction with that little combustion chamber pocket), that could have a huge effect on lowing the knock potential. Only time will tell. Using forced induction to make 450hp out of what's essentially a 3.2l engine while having to also be able to run 87octane is a stretch. Now if Mazda surprises everyone and offeres 2 engine options, that would be nothing but a + for all buyers. We'll see what happens.

 

I totally agree from an entry level perspective however, at this stage, there's no way I would call that car an Rx7. That should be an Rx3 or 5. The 7 should be up market at 50k plus.

 

No it needs 365 and Porsche pretty much already did it with the GT4 90k for a nice sports car isn't crazy or it's like 50k back in 93 or so and that's with a really low inflation rate of 2.5% which is about right. Even nice trucks today are 50k plus.

So the new RX7 would need 400 and weigh 2800 pounds or less to compete with the cayman, corvette, 911 etc...... I'm betting the Cayman has 420 HP in 2017. Hell the engine they are putting in is the exact same one in the 911 making 405.

I don't know about you but I want something better than my FD. It's been 25 years. you can't build a car that's similar to what we already have and equal to what they've already achieved (well mazda can). It must be able to compete against the other elite sports cars just as it did in 93. More importantly in 93 the FD didn't just compete it kicked ***

I believe they already made the power to weight mistake with the current miata so I'm guessing if there is another rx7 chances are you'll get your wish. Which means you'll keep your S2k and Pete and I will keep our FDs.

 

i would be happy with that too. remember SA>FB>FC>FD!

 

I would say that it goes more like FD>SA=FB>FC

 

That is too funny

One day you need to ride shot gun at the track with me

 

, i would too!

 

Yeah. Except the 370Z impresses nobody, and sells like stale bread.

 

The door handle just broke off of mine. I seriously need a shiney new 2017 FF RX-7 with 300 rwhp @ 2500 lbs. soaking wet--and for traditions sake you can dis the cupholder. Oh, and the lines must be more glorious and ageless than the current one.

 

YEP

Otherwise don't even bother because there are plenty of light weight 10 to 1 cars out there already like the S2k, FD, boxster, cayman, elise.

There is no light weight 7 to 1 car (2800/400) though and that's what we want and it would sell because we are not the only ones that want that car.

 

Honestly I think it all depends on what roles such a car would have to fulfill. I don't think that Mazda ever intended the 20b cosmo as a sports car (or even as a supercar). Merely as a powerful luxury car.
The closest thing to a supercar that Mazda ever made was the FD, and I don't think that it came out that bad.

That is truth, but you have to look at the context as well.

If the FD did not exist the 20B JC cosmo would have fit in very well with its '90s Japanese company of Supra, Skyline, 3000GT, SVX Alcyone with just the NSX standing alone as pure sportscar.


Yes, Mazda produced the FD and stole the "pure sports" mantle (and indeed made it their advertising moto) from the NSX.

The only thing the FD really lacked IMO was a NA 20B for real simple "pure sports" like the NSX, but with its lower price and turbo potential it easily bested the NSX in the tuning world.

Remember, Top Gear preferred the 3000GT to the FD RX-7 despite their performance gap- that was the '90s market. Every contemporary English review I have read on the FD says it was too performance focused.

Now we have people again calling for Mazda to abandon the "pure sports" concept they do so well to make a "Japanese muscle" rotary.

I am just pointing out if Mazda builds another "Japanese muscle" rotary car I believe it has more chance of being another 20B JC Cosmo experience than anything else. And we really don't want that.

Again, I say better they refine "pure sports" further and make a Lotus like 2,000lb 300hp rotary Miata...

But, I am guessing once again that will be up to us because I think the reviews and sales of such a refined "pure sports" rotary would show it to be just like the FD-

A failure

FD was a failure

We all want Mazda to build another awesome failure like the FD RX-7 and hopefully they do just for the sake of their pride.

 

I don't like the tail light on the new MX-5, but I can live with the rest of the features- which is saying a lot for a modern car and my taste.

 

Disagree that you can assume that an "FD like" car would be a failure today. It's a completely different market now.

The FD was ahead of it's time, the cars being sold today are much more hardcore performance oriented or extreme today. Track days are more prevalent. The FD may have failed, and it did so for many more reasons than because it was too performance oriented, and failure or not has inspired a lot of what's followed it.

There are also many more young people with disposable income that can and do buy higher end cars today. The FD was targeted to and bought originally by the guys who bought Corvette's and Porsches... guys in their 50's and 60's. The guy I bought mine from was a retired MP, and only took it to the golf club. He couldn't fit his golf bag in it, so he wrapped all his clubs in towels... and he said the car was too tight and uncomfortable.

You aren't going to sell "slow cheap fun" much above 25k, and that's just not an "RX7" anymore... that's a suped-up economy car or a Miata.

 

Another issue, today's cars are built like Mattel toys. Use them until they break then throw them away. Basic serviceability went away in the 90's.

What's the likely hood that a new RX-x will be anything like the FD, in that you can take it apart and reassemble it almost indefinitely?