I think we all agree on the small, lightweight, superior handling RX7, and not trying to beat Corvettes and GTRs at their own brute force game.

It seems to me we're just not sure what decade we're in. Some want a modern FB, others want a modern FD. I'm in the latter camp, I think times have changed. I like the sound of "I'd have a hard time NOT buying a 3-rotor"... I'd feel the same. I think that to bring the rotary back and be successful, you've got to make something people would lust after—not something that makes sense. Rotaries don't make sense.

 

How is this when the factory red line is 9k? The large diameter clutch that comes with the Rx8 isn't designed for that kind of rpm. A quick rev to that level isn't the same thing as building it to reliably hold up at those sustained levels. Anything that the factory builds will have to be reliable for those sustained levels. If you raise the rpm to 10k on that Rx8 and go racing, you better install a scatter shield so you don't loose a foot due to decapitation because the clutch and flywheel decenigrated. When the Rx8 was 1st introduced, it had a 10k rpm red line. As soon as the production versions came out, the red line was dropped to 9k. All syncro based transmissions have a hard time shifting reliably at 10k+. Now I'm not sure about these newer paddle shift models which Mazda could try to use. I'm all for the rotarys high revving capabilities, but not at the expense of long term durability or injury.

 

YEP, exactly, it's not about making something that competes with everything else it's about making something that's different than everything else, THAT'S COOL!!!!!

It doesn't have to be the fastest but it definitely has to stand apart in many ways and a 3 rotor would be a big leap in that direction.

If they simply put a rotary engine in a hard top miata it will likely still have S2K sales which isn't too shabby but I'd like to see a lot more car than that in 2016 especially if it's their long awaited 4th gen RX7.

 

I think the rotary's revving capability isn't necessarily about how high the number is, but how smoothly and freely it does it. Problem with using hi revs for power in a street car is you've got to wait till you get there to get any. I felt that way when I drove an S2000, you waiting a long time for those 240 horses.

 

like you said factory redline , alot of auto-xers with a cob raise the rev limiter to 10k engine and tranny both hold just fine at that level .

also the 8 shares the flywheel with the FD i learned this when I was looking for a light weight flywheel . so I'm not sure of the PP and clutch itself

 

Can't agree more,and to add to it, the majority of FD owners aren't practical or they wouldn't own an FD. The biggest unknown is what audience is Mazda targeting. I fear it's not going to be us. But we can hope.

 

Can you honestly say you would spend $50k or more on a brand new rotary powered car though, the first model year? I'm talking new, not used cars. Seems like most of the people clamoring for another FD-like car all picked up theirs used for $15k. If somebody doesn't buy it new, you end up like the Viper. How many Vipers are getting sold now. Granted, it's twice the cost of what we're talking about here, but still.

 

Many folks, including Pete, on this forum that bought their FD for 15k, bought it 15 years ago so 50k may not be a big financial hurdle to them.

If it's 90% as good looking as an FD (which means I will stand in awe for 15 minutes with a puddle of drool at my feet) and has a 3 rotor I'm a buyer at 75k if it has that much performance value or competes with other cars at that price mark.

PS Those viper ACRs at 20k off retail are starting to call my name LOL

 

Total agreement with Fritz and Pete, nothing to add!

 

Maybe I'm wrong but, as far as the gearbog itself is concerned, wouldn't it be enough to change the initial reduction ratio to address the high rpm problem? I mean, in a conventional manual transmission, the input shaft transmits its power to the countershaft via a pair of gears. Then the actual shifting hardware sits between the countershaft and the output shaft. If one were to change the reduction ratio of the initial gear pair, the rest of the transmission would see ordinary rpm levels throughout.

The clutch is more difficult, but a dual plate clutch could work (if a standard single plate clutch can't be made to work) IMHO.

One of the strong points of the rotary is the high and smooth revving capability. It only makes sense to capitalize on that strength.

Andrea.

 

That's the nice thing about a larger displacement 3rotor. You don't have to wait for the power because of the extra torque down low. Now I'm not saying the torque is world beating by any means. With a 13b, on only get about 100 lbs off idle. 20b you get about 150lbs. 150 may not sound like alot but it gets a 2,800lb car moving very easily. The car acceletates with the minimalist of throttle inputs. When you drop the hammer, the throttle response is unreal.

 

I can honestly say I'd consider it IF it's fantastic. I'd be a lot more likely to cough up $50k for fantastic than $30k for average.

It's true, I bought my first FD in 1997 for $18k, and my current one for $16k in 1998 when that was a good amount of money for me. I've thought about replacing it many times over the years for cars costing much more, including Corvettes, M-Coupes, S2000's, Lotus Elise/Exiges, and Cayman's.

Sooner or later something will excite me enough to pull the trigger, but so far, I haven't driven it. That's the crazy thing about FD's, after all these years, you're spending $50k + (even used) for anything in the ballpark.

 

Regarding revs, since there's no reciprocating or eccentric motion in the trans, it's not a huge deal. It's the engine that will have more issues with revs, not the trans. Of course if it's a 10k engine the clutch and flywheel and transmission will have to be designed and tested for beyond that, but it's not going to be a big deal.

 

If the performance/styling is there it wont be only rotary enthusiasts buying the car at that price. Look at the GTR for example. I didnt think I would see the day a $90k nissan weighing 4000lbs would be a hot commodity but it delivered and made exotic owners get out their check books for a "cheap nissan" that would destroy their Lambos/Ferraris. Great performance from the factory and responds extremely well to modifications. Turbo and tuning technology/education has come along way since the late 80s and early 90s. I think there is a market for $50-60K Japanese cars that run in the low 12s from the factory with the assistance of turbos. Arent EVOs and STIs near $40K new and seem to sell?

If Mazda is in it to make money the price would have to be in the $30k range. The car I want them to build wont be sold under $50k so I believe all this argument/discussion is a waste of time. It will be a 2 door revised RX8 NA that will disappoint in power but outperform and outclass the BRZ/FRS cars.

 

Yep

Dream crusher

 

I wouldn't assume assume the $30k BRZ competitor is the way to go if they're "in it to make money", judging by how those cars are selling.

 

The rx8s and 350Zs sold like crazy so they were on the right track. The rotary had its issues as usual that's why I laugh at the idea of a 3 rotor.

 

about the BRZ , I went to a meet this last friday .and every other car was a BRZ or FRS and they all did a burn out on their little prius tires as they left. LOL

I think the BRZ is a neat car back to basics approach to sports cars for broke people LOL .

 

The FR-S/BRZ is a decent car for the price. The 2015 Mustang might be a game-changer when it arrives, though.

I like the build quality on the late-model RX-8 – I hope they keep the high quality fit and finish on the next car.

Regarding halo cars: I hope Mazda doesn't do what Toyota did with their LFA – manufacture and market an unobtainable car. I'm pretty sure that's why Mazda executives have been saying they want to make a sell car, not a show car.

 

Unless the $50k+ FD is sweet enough that it causes lots of people who can't afford one to buy a miata or a mazda 3.... It's hard to predict the 'halo' effect, but I think it is agreed that there is one.

 

So what have we decided?

New RX7 could be awesome but probably won't be. Yeah Mazda. We're your most loyal fans.

 

Its true, it's all about social media with them. But that doesn't make them smarter, kids these days live through their phones and tablets. While life around them keeps passing them by...

I don't know about you but my car exhilarates me 100X more than a $500 phone ever could.

 

Not sure if your aware of this or not but the series 1 Rx8 had all the issues. The series 2 had some major improvements and has been far more reliable.

1.The omp setup was completely redesigned to have 3 omp injection nozzles with 2 stages of delivery with 2 totally new pumps mounted on top of the block.

2. The front cover and oil pump was completely redesigned and runs much higher oil pressure.

3. The rotors have a special coating to help eliminate excessive carbon buildup.

I'm sure all these improvements will find there way into the next engine be it a 2 and or 3 rotor since obviously Mazda would rather put a product on the market that's actually very reliable this time around.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure there are no plans to manufacture anything resembling a mid 6 figures exotic. There is, however, a good middle ground between 30 and 450K, and a super 7 doesn't have to scratch the 100 mark; and it shouldn't.

 

PRECISELY , I Bought my NB( second gen ) miata BECAUSE it shared alot of the lines and suspension from the FD.