A high hp light weight car is what it's all about. Most people don't realize how much weight effects a cars performance. But a little bit goes a long way.

A small aerodynamic car is harder to balance. . That's where the rotary engines small size and hi power to weight can really make a difference.

That's why I want mazda to build a simple uncompromised car THAT TAKES FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE WANKLE DESIGN.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

As nice at it was in a lot of respects the RX-8 car was still a major compromise. I know the engine had problems but I think those issues would be overlooked if the RX-8 had been closer to what most wanted.

 

Now that you posted it, I think I read it as well, but I dismissed it as impossible. If you think about it, even with a carbon fiber chassis and a fixed roof, the Alfa 4C weighs 200lbs more than that target (gee, I keep bringing up Alfa Romeo even though I don't like them... ). But again, I hope I'm proven wrong.

Then an Rx based on that chassis cannot be much heavier than the Miata. Some weight could be saved by the switch to an aluminium rotary versus a piston engine. The added structural strength required to handle the additional power could easily come by the fact that the roof will be fixed (unless there is a convertible model). The only thing that may add significant amount of weight could be the chassis stretch to fit two (wannabe) rear seats. As far as I know, the FD had either two small rear seats or some compartments behind the front seats, and I can see that arrangement remaining in the 4th gen.

Andrea.

 

No problem... titanium "close-coupled" (as the Brits say) uni-body with aluminum outer shell and suspension. McLaren as chief designer.

 

1760 lbs for a fairly low end car may be ambitious, but I love that they are trying. This tells me they get it. Remember all of the obsessive work that went into getting the FD weight down? Yes, safety requirements/equipment and chassis stiffness requirements have gone up, but construction and material techniques have improved too.

Who would have thought when the 2800 lb FD was built that stock vehicles from major manufacturers would come with titanium exhausts, magnesium and carbon fiber major components. That was stuff for the 2700 lb. McLaren F1. Now Chevy's have them

 

That weight is Lotus Elise territory. Getting it that light would make everyone forget about the lack of power of the Miata everyone complains about.

...that is unless they decide that a 70hp engine is enough in such a light chassis

 

1760lbs aint happening without a body full of carbon fiber and an even smaller foot print. Definitely not gonna happen at the Miata's price point either. If Mazda can get to 2,200lbs (which was the weight of the 1st Miata) then that would be a great feat considering all the eletronics and saftly gear modern cars have today.

 

Well, the Mazda2 weights 2300 lbs...

using modern chassis design and high strength steel like on the Mazda6 and CX-5 and making it a 2 seater could lower that weight imo.

 

I think you fail to noticed that when you say "most", you only account for die hard rotary enthusiast, which make up a minuscule percentile of sales.

 

Speaking of hybrids... Aston Martin has announced it will both debut and campaign a hydrogen-powered Rapide S at this year's ADAC Zurich 24 Hours of Nürburgring. The company wants to be the first to manage a zero carbon dioxide emission lap in mainstream racing, and the racecar should be the first hydrogen-powered machine to compete in an international event. The Hybrid Hydrogen Rapide S will continue to use a twin-turbocharged 6.0-liter V12 engine for propulsion, though the prototype engine can be fed on either pure gasoline, pure hydrogen or any combination of the two.

Did Mazda give up on hydrogen??? If not, what would be wrong with a 3 or 4 rotor hydrogen powered next gen RX-7 ??? Want to pass emissions and ditch those cats 8^) Yea, I know that the infrastructure is not out there yet... But, I would pay 50k to 75K for a next gen hydrogen platform (with 350hp or more) and another 50k to 75k for a personal hydrogen cracking unit (some solar panels and a refer size box in my garage)... Around town run from my own hydrogen... Out on the open road hydrogen plus gas mix or worst case just gas... Mazda, what are you guys waiting for???

 

The weights gonna come down, just not anywhere close to the 1,700 range. Base Miata weighs 2,400 lbs. Loosing 600+ lbs to reach that articles 1,760 just isn't feasable in the Miata's price range. Hell the engine and tranny combo weighs around 450lbs. Removing weight is much harder than most people think.

 

Interesting; have you run the numbers? How many solar panels would it take (or rather how many kilowatt-hours) to crack H2 from H20 in a sufficient amount to run a vehicle at 70 mph for, say, 6 hours?

 

This line got me interested and I tried to do the math.

I used data from here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water.

70mph for 6 hours means 420 miles or roughly 700km.

The hidrogen Rx-8 managed 100km with 2.4kg of hydrogen, so 16.8kg would be needed to cover 700km.

The energy density of hydrogen is 123MJ/kg, so 16.8 kilos of it contain about 2GJ of energy.

Assuming a (very conservative from what I gather) electrolysis efficiency of 50%, it would take 4GJ (or 1.1MWh) of electrocal energy to get the amount of hydrogen needed.

A 200kW power plant could generate that energy in 5 and a half hours.

The best current commercial solar panels have an efficiency of about 20% and we can assume an average peak sun irradiaton of 1kW/m2, so 1000 square meters of solar panels would be needed, equating to a square with a side of 31 meters (a tad more than 100 feet).

This completely ignores a factor called "night" though

Andrea.

 

i agree, and i think this is likely. the FD and Rx8 are actually great examples of this, the Rx8 crowd is reluctant to even do the normal maintenance, while the FD crowd is willing to spend huge money rebuilding things.

there does seem to be some kind of formula to it, and the Germans do really well at it, and Mazda does not. my BMW friends just take for granted that the thing will need about $3000 for stuff(cooling system, brakes, oil leaks...) every 60,000 miles, which is close to the same money as an Rx8, but the Rx8 is perceived as some unreliable money pit, and the BMW is the ultimate driving machine

 

And storage. Assuming we can get our released gaseous hydrogen compressed into liquid form, a 5000psi brute steel tank doesn't weigh nothing or take up no space, and fuel leakage due to the shear size of the h2 molecule is a real concern. I doubt FRP's will be allowed as storage because you definitely don't want any escaping in a crash where there may be an ignition source.
Hydrogen has great potential as a fuel, completely impervious to knock and it's its own aftercooler - no more heavy intercoolers - but it struggles to move from concept to theory.

 

Yes, thanks Gordon.

Looks are key and can cover some other flaws. But if it does not capture the eye and create that "I have to own that car" felling like an FD or Porsche 993 (for me) than nothing else really matters except to the few of us that might buy it simply for the engine/trans/handling.

 

Since I bought an RX-8 I have found that it has the "I have to have that car" pull for 35-50 year old women!

I get some random young male stalkers in my FD and ofc the car scene guys appreciate, but I wasn't prepared for how many middle age ladies were going to be complimenting the RX-8.

I know its hard to swallow because we love the FD more than any other car on earth, but I keep reading you guys saying Mazda has to avoid making another mistake like the RX-8 and I have to say-

The FD was a failure to the point of disaster for Mazda in the US market and the RX-8 was a success.

 

^^From a production numbers standpoint, yes, the RX-8 was a success. However due to the fact that more than half of the early production run cars had their engines replaced, I think you could argue that there's a lot of room for improvement!

I never understood why after 2005 Mazda "rarely" advertised the car and NEVER included it in their dealership sales events.

The later model with the electronic OMP was greatly improved, but too late to the dance.

 

Is this in fact, a fact (50% of S1 engines replaced?)? Where did you get this number?

 

I did not run any numbers... However, it looks like Andrea did... Thanks... And just for kicks, lets say those numbers are close enough... I don't think we will be needing to crack 420 miles worth of hydrogen every day... I would think more like 50 to 100 miles worth per day with storage up to maybe 2 "tanks" full... Also, nothing is stopping you from using your homes power to continue cracking during "off" solar hours...

The idea is to sell a hydrogen hybrid super car along with your own personal hydrogen cracker to make up for the lack of infrastructure... And the bonus is that by burning hydrogen you have much less to worry about emissions... As far as in car tanks go, I think that there are other tank materials available beside heavy metal... I'm just tossing this idea out there... Mazda, BMW, Mercedes and now Aston have been looking at hydrogen burners... So whats up Mazda ???

 

I've heard it from several people, but have never seen any "official numbers". The early '04s were especially problemmatic. Owners in the Phoenix/Vegas area were very hard hit.

 

Same thing they did with the RX7 3rd gen.
I hope the new RX7 is an RX9 unless it's some kind of beast the carries the FD tradition. Mazda does need to figure out a way to sell these things and make them reliable enough to erase the bad name of the FD and early RX8s.... I'm CONSTANTLY bombarded with negative RXx comments based on lack of reliability and the RX8 being slow and kinda ugly.

 

I just sold my miata and it was the same deal. What you are saying is it will continue with my 8 I have on its way. I personally don't mind the attention from the ladies though. . The FD just gets me stalked by teenage boys who almost wreck taking photos.

 

People that say it's "slow" are only looking at straight line performance. The incredibly rigid chassis combined with excellent braking and driving feel make it one of the best handling "touring" cars of the past decade. Tell the haters to borrow one and go for a 10 mile drive through the twisties. I guarantee you it will change how they feel about the RX-8. Hey, non of us are haters. Quite to the contrary, we've lovers of rotary performance and want to see Mazda succeed!!

Lookswise, I'm OK with the car, but definitely prefer the facelift in the'08-'09 timeframe to the earlier models.