Glease Man

iTrader: (5)

No one should worry at all about tunability and technology in the new RX7. It will happen, no doubt. There will be trial, error, and product development, but we'll make it happen. Especially if there's a long run of the engines, or other cars with it.

I don't want to be the "old crusty carburetor guy" like so many people in the car generation before me, who insists Fuel Injection was the biggest mistake of the auto industry. Tells me how hard FI is to tune... Gotta embrace the technology and own it. I've got an EFR sitting here ready

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I just want the option to buy the damn thing

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

If mazda happens to build a really basic NA 2 rotor that's light then I may mess with it ie, 2500 pound 300 HP car. But if it's a GT type car with 350 and has a turbo and bunch of other BS and weighs 2900 pounds no thanks. It will need 400 minimum for me to get excited about a car like that especially if it's 50 to 75k.

However that said if it's a 3 rotor I'm in regardless of #s LOL

Rotor8s vision doesn't work for me. It's all over the place with creases and all the latest tricks I'm not a fan of that bangle bs, or the raised front fenders, the wide body look (big fat *** unless it's a 911) etc...etc... This new mazda vision is a big improvement on that stuff IMO. Or going back to nice clean lines that all gel together similar to the FD.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bmw+...yVguAiNEDbY%3D

ThUnDeRbErK

Hot hatch new typer is 310 hp we are talking about RX Vision future that will be produce or wish it will be in 2017-18 or 2020.

300hp isn't enough for RX Vision's concept car. It looks really luxurious and for luxurious for rich kids machine so 2016 nsx price range now 150k $ and GTR 2016 101k $ so whom gives 50 or 75k $ for 300 hp car ? If it is N/A again we see 300 hp car gives crank 260-270 whp lose in wheel horsepower and peak power again people talk same thing as renesis rx-8 we experienced it.

I think Mazda will be change the scale of that concept because it is too big and proportions will be redesign again.

In my opinion that car needs hybrid range extender and it must be for future sport cars. If that will be built in 2017-18 or 2020 then 10 year production time then new emission rules will not give any chance to fits its standarts. Wait to see what they will do.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You guys have to remember that the 20 somethings who are doing the design work were barely even born when the FD was being designed in the late 80s. They don't have institutional memory of it. The drawings are all probably on paper or old school microfilm, the supplier base and tooling is gone, that sort of thing.

felix_is_alive

this thread is awesome , i like how there are some quite knowledgeable guys here , you guys are the best and while we all seem to be disagreeing on what power it should (or want) it to make .
Most people seem to be on board with the design , i am just happy there is going to be a rotary car, and a proper 2 seater this time .
Will i buy one ...perhaps....depends on the engine , if you ask me what i want ...**** ..stick a 4 rotor twin turbo in there with 950hp !
but realistically i think (like most of you said already) it will probably be a 2 rotor , most likely 2 trims , a non turbo and a turbo model
while it might be sensible , i think in today's market its a balzy move , today if you don't have the hp numbers , you`re narrowing your buyers demographic

rtrylvr

iTrader: (2)

I just read this article that says that there are no plans to put it in production at this time. Then why build a prototype?
2015 Tokyo Motor Show: Best Concept Cars

YoshiFD3S

iTrader: (19)

The 16X engine N/A makes 300whp:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine#16X

Since FI has more-or-less been confirmed by Mazda, I think a ~400whp range is realistic.

Price-wise, I think it's gonna fall somewhere between $40-50k fully-loaded.

A ~$30k price range is simply too close to what a Miata costs (mid-high $20's) and anything above $50k would simply price-out the car in comparison to it's competition and not be in line with Mazda's general pricing strategies...even as a "flag-ship" car.

FwkUiWN

iTrader: (1)

yoshi, I think your wording is slightly off. it doesn't make 300WHP. it makes close to 300BHP.
you do make a semi-valid point though. more power is feasible with a turbo. I'm willing to bet that the near 300bhp was made using high compression. Something(ther high compression) I don't see happening on a forced induction setup. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

I just hope it's less than 60k. I'm getting one even if it's more... I'm already committed

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Here is some information for those who have not had it sink in that this is happening.

Although it has yet to provide a definitive timeline on when it will return to production in the RX-9 sportscar that is expected to be spawned from the concept car, the company's head of research and development, Kiyoshi Fujiwara, told Australian media that prototype test vehicles will begin on-road trials soon.


"Unfortunately I cannot say when [the rotary-powered sportscar] will be produced, but we have all the technical solutions all in place," he said.

"Now we need time to validate the quality issues by actual testing with prototype engine. That kind of validation is needed, because we have had bad quality issues with that engine in the past. We need to ensure we completely validate the quality issues before making this decision.

"But we have a plan and prototype testing will begin soon."

However, Fujiwara did concede, for the first time, that it will feature forced induction in a bid to maximise performance and further improve its economy saying "turbo charging is one of the big contributors for the future rotary engine."

He also indicated that Mazda's previous decision to twin the third-generation MX-5 and RX-8 off the same rear-drive architecture compromised both vehicles, and the company learnt from that lesson with the RX-9 set to be built on its own dedicated platform that will introduce new construction techniques and materials that will eventually filter down to Mazda's mainstream passenger cars.

Read more: Mazda: Turbo key to rotary engine revival
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Spalato

iTrader: (33)

So Mazda Motor Corporation is making some personnel changes as of November 1st, link:

MAZDA:Personnel Changes | News Releases

Don't know if any of this is important or even relevant to the recent news about the RX-Vision...but you guys can take a look at it and maybe extract some info out of it...for more speculation

2a+RoN

I'm pretty damn excited to see where this thing goes...

fmzambon

The 9k redline shown in the pictures points toward an NA engine, and an optimized one at that IMHO. It doesn't look like it's a turbo engine minus the turbo.
True, it may be a fake instrument fitted to the concept. The real engine may not rev that much. But it's still a clue toward a high revving NA engine.

If Mazda decides that they want more power than they can get out of the basic NA engine, I think that adding rotors may be cheaper for them than adding turbos. Adding a turbo requires all of the modifications needed for a 3 rotor (minus the thick center plate and the longer e-shaft) and then many more.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Great! Mazda really needs to make sure this thing will be reliable. Under no circumstances can Mazda repeat the nonsense that happened with the series 1 Renesis. Now I wonder how long with it take Mazda to validate the reliability of the setup once they start prototype testing?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

It's hard to fully interpret these comments, but in-vehicle testing of a new engine family before the last major design freeze/green light is a huge investment. It demonstrates that Mazda is serious about reliability. You can design an engine family and freeze most of the design before it ever goes into a mule car by trusting only simulation results (which isn't always advisable).

Typically there's about a 2 year lead time for production-level tooling on some major components. If that freeze has already occurred, then you can't expect huge changes based on their vehicle test results. You might adjust a seal design, change a tune or a turbo wheel design or something but don't expect a different displacement because they didn't like the way it drove.

You have to be pretty serious to let a proof of concept get to the point where it's being put into vehicles. That doesn't mean it can't/won't get canned, but it's no small thing to spend that kind of money and manpower.

Mazda has probably had prototype engines of their most recent design direction for at least half a year, maybe more. A tons of work has to be done in labs. A partial baseline tune has to be made on an engine dyno before it goes into a car. Some basic durability and mechanical work has to be checked to make sure the simulations they used were ok (temperature, strain, oil aeration, etc).

I mentioned in the past that Mazda was doing oil consumption development at least 2 years ago. Back in 2014 I attended a presentation at SAE World Congress on their results with a series 2 Renesis. That's where I was stunned to find out that most of the rotary oil consumption is from leakage at the oil and gas seals due to very old designs of the seals themselves and warping of the side housings.

There's a lot of fundamental rotary research going on. Also, if this new car is on its own platform, it will have to be shared with something else. Some piston engined car, or a 4 door sedan rotary or something. I don't see how you could do what they did with the FD's 100% dedicated vehicle platform (albeit mostly shared engine with the Cosmo). It's just fistfulls of money.

felix_is_alive

I agree with this , to me it seems easier for mazda to add a rotor instead of all the complexity of the turbo , however someone also stated in a reply above (sorry for not qouting you there fellow rotorhead) a very valid point , the heat generated on the exhaust side would be atomic ...... so thats a tough one
also on a nother note , if you look closely at the dash picture , the RPM gauge reads 9K , but i could be wrong here , but the redline does not go to 9k , it seems to stop at 7K , not sure if that helps or not ,

2a+RoN

Looks like the Tach goes to 10k and redline starts at ~8k...

felix_is_alive

zoom in and you can see actually 7500 , didn't certain FD`s have this and others 8K ?

L-Spec

Yeah, I agree with the 7.5k redline. I think the auto FDs have a 7k redline.

YELLOWGSLSE

iTrader: (7)

First, the car is NOT "big". Have you seen people standing next to it?? it's withing inches of the FD, but with a longer wheelbase.

Second, I think we should trust Mazda with this. They know what they're up against, and they know what act they're following (the FD). People talk negatively about the Rx-8, largely because they missed the point of the car, in my opinion. The Rx-8 was never intended to be a replacement for the Rx7. It was a true 4-door, 4 seat, PERFECTLY balanced sports car. That's what it was designed to be, and in that, they succeeded.

The new Rx-7 (that's what they'll call it) is aimed at the Cayman/S, but with the aim of being lighter, and therefore faster and with better handling. That puts it is really good company. So let's just wait and see. Have faith. They haven't messed up the Rx7 yet, I'm extremely confident that they won't this time either.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i can say definitively that they were some way into the hardware finalizing stage in August. so they have had the 6 months.

and remember that they told us they were announcing a new car at the end of 2015, in like 2013, so they have a time table, and they are right on schedule.

7krayziboi

iTrader: (15)

Right on time I'm no sure....
I don't know how it works down south but here cars usually come out 3months before the year of it...

So...let's say they are coming out with the car in 2017 like they say...that gives them less than a year to "create" a production car , which they barely just started testing the prototype

I was very sceptic about a new rotary.
And it got "made"

So....hopefully rumors are true about the
production time and release date ,

It just seems like a really short time.

But they did surprise me few days ago, hopefully they'll do it again in 12months...

7krayziboi

iTrader: (15)

.

matty

It's a 280-320 hp light weight balanced machine.

The facts are pretty clear:
1) It's been stated that the car is targeting the Cayman.
2) it's been stated that turbo charging a rotary is in the cards.
3) low weight not power is the focus. Which has always been the case for Mazda.

So this tells me it's a 16x with some turbo action. I also think Mazda learned their lesson about pricing. My guess is they will try to make this an affordable sports car. In this day in age that to me means 40-50k.

This 400hp plus talk is way outside of what's currently being telegraphed. It's nice to have high hopes but when examining the facts I am not sure how this remains a topic.

HiWire

Well, I am Rxcited.

I hope Mazda seriously considers selling the new rotary engine as a crate product... all those rotary (and previously non-rotary) applications could use some love.

Also, it would be great to see Mazda prove it on the track again – maybe a privateer build for endurance racing if a factory team is too expensive. I assume that the Pro Mazda cars would be upgraded to the new engines as well.