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So last year around this time I sold my clean 95 mostly stock FD (just had a JDM downpipe). It was a great car but I wasn't driving it enough and it had 60k on the original engine with only ok compression. I figured it was going to need an engine and turbos sooner or later and I'd rather quit while I was ahead. Now I'm daily driving a Tesla Model 3 non performance AWD (with the acceleration boost software, it's pretty quick, a high 11 second car). That car is awesome, handles really well for what it is (4000 pound sedan), and accelerates effortlessly. The tech is great too.
I realized though that I was missing an engaging driving experience, and part of the problem is that the cars I've had recently have had so much power and such high handling limits that it's hard to enjoy them on the street. I thought about a 2019+ Miata because it's the fastest one you can get (high 14 second car, similar to a Turbo II FC stock). A friend of mine told me to just get an older one because it would be 90% of the fun for 20% (or less) of the price.
And he was right. I'm able to have fun driving through neighborhoods with 25mph speed limits with some slight twisties (we don't have that many twisty roads where I live in the Detroit suburbs). It's basically the handling and acceleration of a nonturbo FC Rx-7 (I had an 88 GTU) with the fuel economy and cost of ownership of a Corolla. This car cost me $5200 and it only has 80k miles on it, which isn't that much for a Miata. It also has some features that are basic on new cars now, like keyless entry and cruise control. I will install a Bluetooth audio module to the Bose factory radio in a couple days.
This is a 2002 NB2 Miata. It's really not THAT slow, it's like a high 15 second car on a good day. You can basically floor it off every stop light and shift gears at 7000rpm where it makes peak power. I'm really liking this car so far. I think you need to own fast cars for a while to fully appreciate a fun slow one. So my recent cars:
FD (mostly stock) - great high revving powerband, love the turbo boost, but stiff stock suspension doesn't do well on beat up roads and in the back of my mind I know I'm ticking closer to it needing major and costly work
Model 3 AWD - instant acceleration, totally effortless point and shoot driving with the unique regenerative braking feel, but still the limits are too high on the street.
NB2 Miata - requires work and engaging driving, can be enjoyed at low speeds on normal streets, great open top feeling and cheap to own, just barely enough acceleration to be fun.
Challenger 5.7 manual trans - smooth ride, good manual transmission, a total boat in the handling department, torquey but feels slow compared to a Tesla. Bit of a 1 trick pony with the V8 rumble and torque.
Mustang Ecoboost manual - nice all around car with decent handling, decent amentities, medium level of power. It's a good jack of all trades sporty coupe.
I agree, the RX-7 is an amazing car but sometimes it's just too much. A Miata like that you can drive like nuts and won't draw any attention to yourself or get in any trouble.
Yep. The Miatas are fun. You can truly drive them close to 10/10ths and not be afraid of going to jail or running out of road like with faster cars. If you overcook it, you're still going slow-ish enough to recover more easily thanks to physics and such. I feel cramped in a street car NA and NB but YMMV. They are a lot roomier as a race car with the interior stripped out, the seat lowered to the floor and doors gutted. If I were to have a Miata for a street car, it would have to be an NC or ND since they are roomier.
On the flip side, It's nice to have a bit power like with the FD but there are so few times that one can use that power on the road. Unless you live somewhere that isn't very populous anyway... I can't bring myself to sell mine. It's a blast to drive and pretty to look at.
I have a TM3 long range. The power is great but it is not all that engaging to drive. The suspension starts feeling a bit odd as you get closer to it's limits. Not super confidence inspiring. It's a great DD though.
Thanks for posting your experience, I've thought about selling my 95 CW locally after receiving a very tempting offer. I was looking into a beater NA Miata as a replacement for a fun weekend driver at a fraction of the cost of an FD. I understand the miata may not be as "fast" as an FD (as well as turning heads) but if it can replace 90% of the fun aspect of an FD, I'd consider it. Hoping to get some more feedback from other FD owners who have driven/owned an NA/NB miata.
Thanks for posting your experience, I've thought about selling my 95 CW locally after receiving a very tempting offer. I was looking into a beater NA Miata as a replacement for a fun weekend driver at a fraction of the cost of an FD. I understand the miata may not be as "fast" as an FD (as well as turning heads) but if it can replace 90% of the fun aspect of an FD, I'd consider it. Hoping to get some more feedback from other FD owners who have driven/owned an NA/NB miata.
you should look at the new Miata, the ND's it feels like an FD but without the crazy engine.
the older miata are like 110% of the fun of an FD, it handles the same or better (i have a 92, its 2100lbs...), gas mileage more than doubles, they don't break, but its a 90's car with a timing belt, so you get to drive it with no issues for 60K, and then its like a mini restoration. it doesn't ride like a truck, it doesn't slowly cook you. it is slow in a straight line, but on the street you can drive it as hard as you want, and in the turns you can keep up with a surprising amount of stuff
the bad is that the miata is harder to work on than the FD, the FD is the best packaged car ever, and the miata is a parts bin special, so there are some things that are hard to get too. if you did mod the miata the hp/$ is abysmal
Well I have a 12 srt8 Great cars on the wide open roads,comfortable and makes a good noise. Pathfinder le 4x4 great truck fits my family plus some. Rx7 fd just perfect. Cost to run is expensive plenty of power at 420ish rwhp, sounds amazing and easy to work on. Simple car that does everything well. I live in Fl so there are many roads to enjoy these fast cars on. A miata where I live at is just boring. If there were some tight roads the miata would be a blast. With that said I would love to buy a spec miata one day and go racing.
I test drove a 2019 MX-5 RF last year ("Retractable Fastback", basically a power Targa top), with manual trans and grand touring trim. I liked it a lot. I think I'd get the soft top for the simplicity and full open air experience, but the RF looks better with the top up. The engine revs out to over 7k which is rare these days. Most engines run out of breath by 5500-6000rpm due to a low revving, fuel efficient ethos.
Biggest thing I notice doing twisty back road driving on an NB Miata vs an FD is that on the FD you have to manage the power. You're watching your speed, gear position, and brakes more carefully if you want to stay relatively safe and legal. It's a more intense drive on the FD than the Miata, and definitely less forgiving. Also, poorly maintained back roads do better on the Miata's suspension, because it doesn't get unsettled by the bumps so much.
When it comes to cruising city streets with traffic, well you can't go too fast with either the Miata or the FD. The Miata has the nice open air feeling (when weather is cooperating). A/C and heat are better on the Miata, clutch is lighter. Acceleration is a lot better on the FD, so you're sort of banging through 1st and 2nd quickly and then you probably need to slow down. The NB2 Miata I have revs out to 7k and doesn't have much below 4k, so you're feeling rev out.
People bash on the NC Miata all the time, but I had a NC with the power retractable hardtop and I loved that car (first manual), and would/will get another one when the opportunity comes up.
The retractable fastback on the NDs is really nice too, but I personally liked the NC version better because it drops the top completely when its down.
That said, the ND has more power and does drive a bit better than the NC.
There's also the turbocharged Fiata and the mazdaspeed NB which are a ton of fun to drive too.
driving a good slow car "fast" is one of the best things
the fd is definitely sensory overload on the back roads
miata is probably easier on the conscience
less to go wrong, and less devastating in case it does
wreck it buy a new one
People bash on the NC Miata all the time, but I had a NC with the power retractable hardtop and I loved that car (first manual), and would/will get another one when the opportunity comes up.
The retractable fastback on the NDs is really nice too, but I personally liked the NC version better because it drops the top completely when its down.
That said, the ND has more power and does drive a bit better than the NC.
There's also the turbocharged Fiata and the mazdaspeed NB which are a ton of fun to drive too.
I like the NC the most. You can fit a lot of tire under it. The price is what's holding me back from buying one because, up here in Canada, they are very expensive. The cheapest one that I've seen was a salvage titled NC with an asking price of $10k. Most go in the $12-$20k range since they are only driven during the few summer months that we have and all have low mileage.
Owners seem to ask a lot for NC Miata's here too. I think it's an older crowd that owns them, who garage them more. So the people who sell them want more, and the people who buy them have more money to pay. The problem is that you can get a used 2016 or 2017 ND Miata for only a couple grand more than what people are asking for 10 year old NC Miata's.
Owners seem to ask a lot for NC Miata's here too. I think it's an older crowd that owns them, who garage them more. So the people who sell them want more, and the people who buy them have more money to pay. The problem is that you can get a used 2016 or 2017 ND Miata for only a couple grand more than what people are asking for 10 year old NC Miata's.
I just checked ND prices on Kijiji. $25k for an early used one here. New ones are $40-$50k. Crazy. At least the NA is still affordable.
Had an NB2 for a while as well. It was an insurance buy back (cosmetic damage) that I bought from a friend for $500. I loved that car dearly and it was sooo fun to drive. Once I fixed it up it was time to get rid of something in the stable and the FD sure as hell wasn't it.
I'm surprised you wanted to get out of the FD just because of a potential rebuild in the future. With all your knowledge I would think pulling off a rebuild or new engine would be a piece of cake.
For me I've always just assumed if something goes wrong I will either rebuild or buy a new engine depending on the damage. If I don't have the time I will farm out the work. I've put so much work into getting this thing dialed I can't imagine starting over again on another car.
I'm surprised you wanted to get out of the FD just because of a potential rebuild in the future. With all your knowledge I would think pulling off a rebuild or new engine would be a piece of cake.
Rebuild is more of a been there, done that scenario after rebuilding the engine on my FC. It gobbled up my weekends for a long time as the inevitable stuff pops up. It worked out though, it was a strong motor. I've got a 4 month old kid now so it's more about stepping out for an hour or two here and there for a fun drive. I priced out rebuilt engine + new turbos and clutch at a reputable shop and it was about $8k parts and labor, which isn't that bad actually (same cost as self driving software on a Tesla). Problem was I wasn't driving it enough to justify the cost. It was better to get out while everything was running well.
Originally Posted by H_M
I just checked ND prices on Kijiji. $25k for an early used one here. New ones are $40-$50k. Crazy. At least the NA is still affordable.
Funny you mention that. I looked up the original price of a 1990 NA model, as mentioned in this Car and Driver article. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
It was $13,800 , and that's with crank windows and probably no A/C. Optioned out it was about $16,000 (USD here). I think an Rx-7 was low-mid 20's non turbo at the time and a Turbo II was high 20's.
Pop it into an inflation calculator and you get $27331 for a base model (crank windows!) and $31689 for loaded without a hard top in today's US Dollars. Well let's look at Mazda's MSRP (USD) now.
$26580 for a base model which has way more power (70 more hp), way more safety, better sound system, A/C, cruise control, and almost same weight with more refined handling.
$31670 for Grand Touring which will get an even better sound system, Apple Carplay, power leather seats, and LSD (standard on Grand Touring in 2020, optional/not available in previous years).
Now throw in 0% financing that they offer (no way they had that in the early 90s, interest rates way higher) and a new Miata is equally affordable or even more affordable than a Miata was when it came out the first year. Of course we are leaving out discounts, document fees, sales tax, destination fees, etc, but my point still stands.
Average transaction price for a new vehicle is around $35k now with a 5 or 6 year loan courtesy of low interest rates.
Rebuild is more of a been there, done that scenario after rebuilding the engine on my FC. It gobbled up my weekends for a long time as the inevitable stuff pops up. It worked out though, it was a strong motor. I've got a 4 month old kid now so it's more about stepping out for an hour or two here and there for a fun drive.
I can relate to that. I have a 5 month old and a 3 year old. As they get older and more fun that time will get more and more valuable too. Priorities do change.
Congrats on the Miata and kiddo. That is a nice specimen and I do agree they are super fun to drive.
Funny you mention that. I looked up the original price of a 1990 NA model, as mentioned in this Car and Driver article. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
It was $13,800 , and that's with crank windows and probably no A/C. Optioned out it was about $16,000 (USD here). I think an Rx-7 was low-mid 20's non turbo at the time and a Turbo II was high 20's.
Pop it into an inflation calculator and you get $27331 for a base model (crank windows!) and $31689 for loaded without a hard top in today's US Dollars. Well let's look at Mazda's MSRP (USD) now.
$26580 for a base model which has way more power (70 more hp), way more safety, better sound system, A/C, cruise control, and almost same weight with more refined handling.
$31670 for Grand Touring which will get an even better sound system, Apple Carplay, power leather seats, and LSD (standard on Grand Touring in 2020, optional/not available in previous years).
Now throw in 0% financing that they offer (no way they had that in the early 90s, interest rates way higher) and a new Miata is equally affordable or even more affordable than a Miata was when it came out the first year. Of course we are leaving out discounts, document fees, sales tax, destination fees, etc, but my point still stands.
Average transaction price for a new vehicle is around $35k now with a 5 or 6 year loan courtesy of low interest rates.
That's pretty crazy when you take inflation in to account. Almost the same price over 30 years. You get so much more bang for your buck with an NC than you did for an NA at almost the same price.
That's pretty crazy when you take inflation in to account. Almost the same price over 30 years. You get so much more bang for your buck with an NC than you did for an NA at almost the same price.
You mean ND? That's the current one, with 2016-2018 the ND1 and current 2019- as ND2. In 2019 they added 30 horsepower (basically revs another 1000+ rpm) as well as some slight suspension changes and more standard features. NC ended after 2015 MY. NC was the Rx-8 based one that was bigger and a bit softer.
ND Miata is now accelerates like a turbo Rx-7 did in 1990 and revs higher. That car costed more like $50k in today's money when new. Shows how technology changes.
I bought a used 2019 MX-5 RF last year to replace the 1996 Nissan Hardbody I drove for 16+ years as my daily driver.. no regrets. The car is a blast to drive, very capable on the back roads and autocross (throw Konis, lowering springs and sticky 245s on it and it's hard to beat), great "reasonable street" speed, warranty, beautiful (minus all the rock chips it already has..), modern creature comforts and I can get 40mpg cruising on the highway. The RF is quieter on the highway and looks better than the soft top, IMO, but you can't really go wrong with either. I like previous generations of the Miata, as well, but didn't have the fuel efficiency or modern comforts I wanted in a daily driver. I'm sad Mazda doesn't have any rotaries out there but glad they still have a sports car.
The Miata sometimes feels like a "toy" after driving the FD as the steering, clutch, shifter, etc. are so light, however, it doesn't bug me (in fact, I appreciate it in a daily driver). I love that I can just romp on the thing and not worry about something breaking, overheating, etc. You have less to worry about, in general, when driving aggressively as there is no turbo lag, turbo transition, etc. If owning two small, two-seater Mazda sports cars isn't too much for you, the FD and ND is a great combo!
This is something that has crossed my mind recently, after stuffing so much money into my FD. It's very stressful to drive, worrying about every little thing that could happen to it mechanically, but I enjoy it SOOOO MUCH!! I live near a mountain range with awesome roads so selling the FD isn't in the cards now, but I'm definitely thankful that I'm not the only one who feels the same way you guys do. Often times I feel like I'm taking my car for granted, after I've spent so much time and money on it. The local car group LOVES this car though, and it often reminds me of why I bought it in the first place.
Also, for you guys looking for NC Miata's, my coworker is currently trying to unload his so he can go buy this S2000 he can't stop talking about. It has low mileage, and its in great condition so I'm sure he'd give you a hell of a deal so he can buy what he really wants
06-29-20, 06:43 AM
