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Once again, the RX-8 has made me re-think the FD (see my thread on Old Man's Suspension) - my RX-8 has the factory Bose stereo and HOLY SMOKES it's one of the best car stereos I've ever heard. Good low end, crisp, and gets LOUD without distortion.
The FD sounds like *** in comparison.
So, current setup in the FD -
- Alpine IDA-X001 head unit with an old iPod hooked up
- Alpine in-line amp (can't find model in 20 seconds of googling) - just plugs in between the stereo and harness and boosts output to the speakers. About the size of a brick.
- MB-Quart 6.5" separates in front with tweeters mounted in trim triangles
- Some unknown 6x8's in the back I bought at Best Buy
This whole setup was bought and installed probably 2004-2005.
The setup just sounds meh. Bass isn't great, it distorts when you turn it up, and the stereo will cut off and reboot if you crank it up too much (I think due to that add-on amp).
I'm generally happy with the head unit. For my daily, I listen to music/audiiobooks on my iPhone, the music is all downloaded files synced to the phone (I don't use a streaming service). This also serves me well going to Deal's Gap since there are a LOT of cell phone dead spots and you aren't streaming with no signal.
So, my goals -
- Keep a single din head unit. I'm fine with keeping the existing one, it would be nice if I could add Bluetooth or upgrade to the newer version (the IDA-X305) but that's not a deal breaker. The stereo has a solid interface, looks good, and has a ton of RCA jacks on the back to hook up amps (I think it has 6 - 2 front, 2 rear, 2 subwoofer)
- Probably need a good external amp. I want something SMALL and LIGHT though. I don't want some mammoth amp.
- Not big on giant subwoofers, again this is a gentleman's system. If I could get decent bass from the speakers that would be great. If I do need one, something small and light that doesn't impact storage space (that's a big ask).
- Get good, clean, crisp sound that sounds good when you turn it up
- Doing it myself of course
- Not costing some crazy amount of money
Not much to contribute, but just to ask whether you're running an upgraded alternator? I'm going to be having a very similar setup that doesn't require too much power. RotaryExtreme showed me his setup just running modern speakers with the same power rating that doesn't require an amp and it sounds amazing in the FD cabin.
You could add one of those amps with subwoofer built in (ie. JBL Basspro). My Buddy’s FD had something like that. Sounded good. Are you trying to do stealth??
The previous owner of my car put the 6x9s where the Bose protruded as the typical spot behind the seats has the pockets. I added 6.5” in the door and tweeters on the door triangles. Center speaker is gone. I have a 10” Bazooka tube for sub. The sub is a bit large for the car but I’ll probably change it one day when I go through the car…the head unit is old and needs to be updated. I think my car sounds clean. Not crazy bass.
I plan to quite the car down with a resonator or three. The drone on a long cruise is not fun. This will help with the audio.
I used to rock the alpine decks with the inline baby amp - it just wasnt cutting it. The amp could only amplify whatever signal it got and if it was a flat signal then it amplified only a flat signal.
I think the most important part of my budget build was the high quality stereo head unit with it having a really good sound controls built in like zone control, position seating, several band eq... you have to have a good foundation for sound processing for what ever aftermarket amp to build on. Personally I know that you buy speakers designed for head units that do not need amps, they will have a damn good output off a good powered head unit. My kenwood is 4x50w but as you know whats more important is the rms which was 4x25ish. I went with alpine speakers designed to run off the deck. I do not have the rear interior but i put 2 6x9's in separate wood boxes. For the bass I am using a powered built in amp 50w 8inch bazoka tube. All I can say it is a damn nice balanced system. Most of the voice and sound comes front the front speakers, I use the rears to help with the voice and instrumentals as there is zero bass coming from them. I have it tuned so that it sounds like I am wearing head phones, the sound is very centered. Since the car is a hatch we know it does not take much to get bass. I really wish you could hear it. The whole system does not draw alot of power and it was affordable. But... I would def make sure you have a really good head unit with a good sound processor and controls, 4x50w and speakers meant to be run off stereo. Good luck in what ever way you go. And yes I miss my 8, the handling, radio... rotary mpg... lol
My plan is to keep the OEM head-unit and move to a full digital and wireless setup.
I mainly play music from my phone anyway so i might as well just skip the entire head-unit and keep the car looking OEM.
Also, using a class-D amp, you can get them inn all sizes, down to a Raspberry-Pi box.
Hey Dale, my sound system requirements are very similar to yours, except that my FD started with nothing - no head unit, no speakers, nada. So I was open to getting a 2DIN format touchscreen head unit, as that would be best for supporting Android Auto/Apple Carplay phone integration. The system I ended up with was a Kenwood Excelon DMX706S with USB wired Android Auto/Carplay support. I mounted that in the dash with a Pioneer ADT-VA133 double DIN install kit/cage, which made the installation simple & clean. For front speakers, I installed Infinity Reference series 6-1/2" round two way speakers using mounting adapters found on Amazon. For the rears I mounted 6x8" Infinity Reference 3-ways using DIY speaker brackets that I fabricated, and DIY speaker grills that repurposed the old Bose cubby bins. The whole enchilada cost me about $600, between black Friday sales at Crutchfield for all the audio gear + other places for the incidental bits.
For the most part, this setup scratched my itch for "good enough" sound quality & volume for me. Great sound stage imaging and sounds clean at volume levels high enough to clearly hear above the normal FD din at speed, and it doesn't distort or otherwise sound like crap when I really crank it up, though the bass could be a bit stronger/better. I think a powered sub woofer or perhaps a pair of larger (6x9) rear speakers that are just as efficient and have as clean a frequency response as my existing Infinity Reference 6x8's might fix that one limitation. Though it only bothers me if I'm listening to a jazz or blues number that has lots of complex standup bass going on. For most of the stuff I listen to, it's fine as-is..
As for advice for your case, here's how I would prioritize bang for the buck sound improvements for your FD:
1. If you haven't done so already, go all in on NVH/noise reduction steps - when I had my door panels & interior panels/bins apart for refinishing & wiring the ECU, I lined everything I can with an equivalent Dynamat sound reduction mat. Though there's still some pesky squeaks & rattles, this made the ambient noise while driving much quieter. Good audio quality is all about signal-to-noise; if your audio system is competing with a crap load of noise, it will never sound good.
2. Shop for replacement speakers that have high efficiency ratings and a flat full-range frequency response. Meaning they'll be able to produce high volume sound without distortion at low RMS power levels. This is where places like Crutchfield come in, because you can deep-dive all the nit-noid specs to find something suitable; that's how I chose my Infinity Reference speakers, as they are a great match for my head unit with its puny 14 or so watts/channel RMS output.
3. If the new speakers & NVH/noise reduction steps satisfy you, you're done. Otherwise, you may want to look into a head unit with a bit more RMS output power and/or an added amp & sub woofer as the next steps.
That's small enough to be mounted up out of the way.
I'll see how that does and if I need to upgrade speakers. I think the root of the problem right now is I don't have clean power to feed the speakers.
Once that's done I may look into something bass-wise. I've played around with doing a sub that goes where the spare tire once was or in the back passenger corner where the power antenna assembly would live. I don't want to give up any trunk space, with a Deal's Gap trip and 2 passengers that uses all available space for luggage and whatnot.
Dale, I went with the Kicker HS8 Hideaway for Bass. I also didn't want to give up much space and wanted to be able to easily remove it. This fit the bill as it can be mounted with straps and has a single connector to disconnect the wires. I am pleased with the sound.
I would highly recommend the JVC KD-X350BTS (The current model is KD-X370BTS). This is what I used on my previous FD. I chose it for the following reasons:
1) It is only a media player without a CD. I only listen to FM and stream from my phone or USB anyways.
2) It is only 1/2 the depth of a standard single DIN which makes installation much easier.
3) 4 volt pre-outs. I think the 370 is now 5 volts.
4) Configurable colors so you can match the FD lighting.
5) I liked the interface/controls/look/etc.
6) Price. Snagged mine for $50 at Best Buy!
My scenario was a bit different as I had a touring model. I used a small Alpine Power Pack and hid it behind the radio (KTP-445U).
2 Channels were routed to the front speakers. I just used Infinity 6.5 coax speakers (Nothing fancy). I would not change you MB Quarts unless you find they are damaged or blown. Those were good speakers in the day and were made to last so I would focus the the amp/head unit first and see how they sound. Like anything else change once piece at a time and re-test
The other 2 channel were routed through the sub out of the head unit directly to the Bose subs. I ran new wires and bypassed the amps and connected directly to the subs. In your case you can just route to the rears.
I also hid the microphone for the phone behind the center channel speaker grill (after removing the speaker and making a cardboard template). It worked OK but the FD is generally too noisy for phone calls!
In the end I was pretty surprised on how good it sounded. The bass was actually decent and I was happy with the overall sound quality as the Alpine amp is quite good. The controls for the subwoofer level/crossover etc was easy to use in the JVC. I felt better making use of the snake in the trunk rather than just taking up space.
On my current R1 I actually restored the original radio and put it back in. Doesn't sound great but I'm going to take my time figuring out what to do next. I'm thinking about hooking up a power pack up to it and see what happens and building an AUX in through the CD input. I just like the look of the OEM radio and wanted to play around with it a bit before I put it back in storage.
Next time I'm over there I'll show you my setup. It's very minimal and setup for sound quality over just being loud aside from the double din head unit which came with the car, been looking to replace that. But the Amp and sub are tiny and the door speakers are co-axial Focal which are simple but the Foam speaker rings and dynamat make them sound more expensive than they actually are. Installation is more important than the speaker quality itself.
I use a tiny Rockford Fosgate powersports amplifier for my subwoofer and front speakers.The single amp is a Rockford Fosgate punch 400watt x4, which gives me 100 watts for the two front channels and 200 bridged for the sub. It's the perfect setup for the FD. Rear fill is absolutely not necessary and in most cases detrimental to a car this size in a SQ setup as it detracts from the front stage. The really good news is that this system was very inexpensive. Total investment in the speakers, sub and amp is less than 500 and it sounds GREAT. I do a lot of car audio and have built probably 20 system for different cars over the years. This one is my favorite because of the value it provides while stacking up against systems I've invested way more money and time into.
Parts used:
1x Focal 165CA1 $ 149
1x Rockford Fosgate Punch PBR400x4d - $200
1x Kenwood Excelon P-XW804B 8inch subwoofer - $125
Plus good quality wiring/speaker wire and door speaker mounts, FAST speaker rings etc.
JBL BassPro Nano powered subwoofer
Blaupunkt Bremen SQR 46 DAB head unit (so excited for this)
Pioneer TS-G680 2 front, 2 rear
Rear speaker brackets from JP3 (have a touring)
JBL BassPro Nano powered subwoofer
Blaupunkt Bremen SQR 46 DAB head unit (so excited for this)
Pioneer TS-G680 2 front, 2 rear
Rear speaker brackets from JP3 (have a touring)
Excited.
That stereo deck is so awesome and should fit perfect with the 7's interior. I love buttons !!!!!! Awesome pick bro.
That stereo deck is so awesome and should fit perfect with the 7's interior. I love buttons !!!!!! Awesome pick bro.
That's what sold me. Most head units that are decent, for a mid range price, are sold out. Either super expensive and overkill, or really cheap and underwhelming. Think it was justified getting this given the specs, and how amazing it will look. Love the buttons as well.
Will be really cool, can't wait to hear how it sounds. Will make a recording.
For some time I ran a pair of Kicker subs inside the bose snake with a separate amp for them, everything else stock Bose. To me it sounded amazing, I could really crank the volume up with no distortions.
Now I want to do away with the snake to reclaim the space and add new door and rear speakers and replace the stock stereo with something modern with touchscreen and Android Auto and rear camera... Hopefully it sounds good without the subs in the rear.
Got the Soundstream amp I referenced earlier in the thread - so far I'm pleased with it, very nice design, everything feels and looks quality, and the size is great.
My best friend Matt came to town this weekend and we installed it. He had a killer idea - I have a 94 with the passenger air bag and I've gutted the air bag (actually the whole air bag system) some time back. We mounted the amp inside the shell of the passenger air bag. Made running wiring to/from the head unit easy as it's a short run and there's a good amount of room inside the module.
Results? Sound is much better and crisper, when I crank it up the amp/head unit doesn't reboot (that old setup was just marginal on power handling), everything works and sounds good. But I'm going to need a sub of some kind, there's no low end or punch to the sound at all. I would also like to properly dynomat the doors and put the speaker foam rings in, that needs to be done.
I like that the amp is out of the way and in an unused dead space. If I need to get to it, it's 2 screws to drop the glove box and 2 screws holding that assembly in place.
How many of yall have run new wires to your speakers? I am wondering if that would make a large enough improvement. I have the same head unit as Pete's with some similarly priced Kicker speakers. My systems sounds great at low speeds, but on the highway leaves a lot to be desired. It makes a lot of noise, but is not clear.
I will say the sound in my cabin is rather noisy. I have to shout to talk to people on bluetooth, just to hear myself over the wind noise. My tires are quiet and so is my exhaust (Racing Beat muffler and Bonez cat). I have thought about replacing weather stripping to see if this would help.
Basically the smaller the wire, the less wattage it can deliver to the speakers. Due to the smaller size there is more resistance so some of the power becomes heat instead of power to drive the speaker. But for mid-range speakers this doesn't seem like enough of a problem to warrant an upgrade. You will have some loss but it's such a small percentage it's not noticeable.
Having good electrical connections everywhere will be of more benefit than upgrading wiring. If you have poor connections that will introduce far more resistance than the wires themselves.
I bought enough CCA wire to to do my entire project only to realize I had to re-buy everything in copper.
CCA is cheap - but it's cheap for a reason.
CCA needs to be a bigger AWG to carry the same current as smaller copper wire.
CCA is less efficient and creates more heat.
^Yep. I had some leftover wire from a zillion years ago that was real copper wire back when copper was cheap . I don't like that clad wire at all, that's some janky stuff.
03-01-22, 02:05 PM
