If you had to give up your FD
04-07-11, 10:03 AM
#351
But when you say stuff like this and say NSX bottomed out and are in an arise do concerns me.. So, is your prediction also include FD pricing will arise too? Or are we just looking at completely different market because NSX's in general priced much higher and gear toward those who might not be affected by financial market??
Example, Would you pick up this 2002 yellow/blk for $58,9K
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145909
or 09 GTR for few grand more??
I just feel like, you really have to be a serious NSX enthusiast or car collector in general to make that jump. At least FD's are so cheap you could make a pretty easy decision of getting it vs. say GTR vs. NSX.
And yes, I know what some of the NSX owners will say... GTR and NSX are different.. fit and finish, etc.. But GTR is a phenomenal car with great interior, power, handling, etc.... and most consider current Japanese supercar.
04-07-11, 10:04 AM
#352
I have spent a lot of times around Supras back when I was buying and selling a lot with SpeedForSale.com. I will argue to my death the FD is a more fun car to drive and looks better. However, trying to say a RX7, NSX or 240 will stand the test of time over a Supra is a big reach. Mazda and Nissan put out great efforts with the RX7 and 300Z but Toyota really had their **** together with the MKIV Supra.
Ive yet to find another car that "does it" for me like the FD anywhere in a comparable price range. Though I will never own a MKIV Supra(its a matter of principle from all the crap I have talked over the years) I can appreciate what Toyota accomplished 20 years ago long before anyone else.
04-07-11, 10:08 AM
#353
*** Bless The USA
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saint Louis / Illinois
Posts: 7,139
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You were in a hurry to sell - all the bs about hard times and stuff, then you bought an NSX. You're old blue drag car was not worth 28k, that's an anomaly
Yes, they sell for that much
hmmmm - I'm not the "troll" smearing pics of the batmobile and even a self picture flexing in a mirror all over another forum for which he no longer owns the car
Yes, they sell for that much
hmmmm - I'm not the "troll" smearing pics of the batmobile and even a self picture flexing in a mirror all over another forum for which he no longer owns the car
Pics were related to the question, I merely did it to poke fun at myself.
Not sure what you're problem is but you're being a real jerk.
04-07-11, 10:09 AM
#354
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
I have to comment here. First off there were only roughly 6600 TURBO MKIVs that were sold in the US, half of the total number of FDs. Add the fact only 2300 were 6 speeds and you have a collectable. Turbo Supras are simply more rare than the FD.
I have spent a lot of times around Supras back when I was buying and selling a lot with SpeedForSale.com. I will argue to my death the FD is a more fun car to drive and looks better. However, trying to say a RX7, NSX or 240 will stand the test of time over a Supra is a big reach. Mazda and Nissan put out great efforts with the RX7 and 300Z but Toyota really had their **** together with the MKIV Supra.
A factory engine(with aftermarket head studs), transmission and rear diff that could handle repeat abuse from 1000+rwhp setups was unheard of back then. No one knew what that car was capable of until the late 90s except for Toyota. The over all quality of that car is leaps and bounds ahead of the FD and a good bit ahead of the 300zx. The stock computer can run about 5-6psi of boost over the factory setting safely and the car can make 420-440rwhp with exhaust, bbc, and FMIC. The braking of the Supra wasnt rivaled by many if any in its time. Here is a quote I found from a magazine source "This unique Formula One-inspired braking system allowed the Supra Turbo to record a 70 mph (110 km/h) -0 braking distance of 149 feet (45 m),[20] the best braking performance of any production car tested in 1997 by Car and Driver magazine. This record was finally broken in 2004 by 3 feet (0.91 m) by a Porsche Carrera GT."
As much as I make fun of the MKIVs and especially their owners there are really only a handful of cars that can compare to them in an all around performance test, and they are all exotics with the exception of the Viper and New Z06 which still arent cheap.
Ive yet to find another car that "does it" for me like the FD anywhere in a comparable price range. Though I will never own a MKIV Supra(its a matter of principle from all the crap I have talked over the years) I can appreciate what Toyota accomplished 20 years ago long before anyone else.
I have spent a lot of times around Supras back when I was buying and selling a lot with SpeedForSale.com. I will argue to my death the FD is a more fun car to drive and looks better. However, trying to say a RX7, NSX or 240 will stand the test of time over a Supra is a big reach. Mazda and Nissan put out great efforts with the RX7 and 300Z but Toyota really had their **** together with the MKIV Supra.
A factory engine(with aftermarket head studs), transmission and rear diff that could handle repeat abuse from 1000+rwhp setups was unheard of back then. No one knew what that car was capable of until the late 90s except for Toyota. The over all quality of that car is leaps and bounds ahead of the FD and a good bit ahead of the 300zx. The stock computer can run about 5-6psi of boost over the factory setting safely and the car can make 420-440rwhp with exhaust, bbc, and FMIC. The braking of the Supra wasnt rivaled by many if any in its time. Here is a quote I found from a magazine source "This unique Formula One-inspired braking system allowed the Supra Turbo to record a 70 mph (110 km/h) -0 braking distance of 149 feet (45 m),[20] the best braking performance of any production car tested in 1997 by Car and Driver magazine. This record was finally broken in 2004 by 3 feet (0.91 m) by a Porsche Carrera GT."
As much as I make fun of the MKIVs and especially their owners there are really only a handful of cars that can compare to them in an all around performance test, and they are all exotics with the exception of the Viper and New Z06 which still arent cheap.
Ive yet to find another car that "does it" for me like the FD anywhere in a comparable price range. Though I will never own a MKIV Supra(its a matter of principle from all the crap I have talked over the years) I can appreciate what Toyota accomplished 20 years ago long before anyone else.
The only thing that's kept the crazy prices of the Surpa so high is the lack of available cars. Imagine if there were only 5k FDs and of those 5k only 2k were manuals. I would absolutely pay 30k plus for a decent FD if I couldn't find one for 15. I think it's the value that has a lot of people fooled when it comes to the FD. Just because the supra commands a high price people give it much more respect than it deserves.
Regarding the performance level of the supra I have to laugh because they are not performers in any way shape or form on a road course with out HUGE investments in every single part of the car and the brakes are the worst part. It's a 3400 pound car that will easily make 400 hp so you have to practically run 19" wheels with 17" rotors to stop the damn thing. The FD will absolutely demolish it with half the investment and look so much better doing it. I understand that it's a hole different story on a drag strip so I'll happily give the supra that victory.
No doubt in the GT race Toyota beat everybody back in the 90s and the supra is a very cool GT car even today but in my view the looks no longer do anything for me so I'd rather just buy a new m3, Audi or 10 other nice GT cars made today that make big power, have nice interiors and are comfortable to drive. However if you want to compete with the FD you'll need to drop 100k on one of today's late model cars to find the same joy. I'm not talking #s I'm talking fun cars to drive which in a nut shell is what a sports car is and the FD had that in the 90s and still has it today
The 240 and NSX may be hard for the FD to beat but I seriously think it will. The supra doesn't belong in the same sentence
PS In 10 or 20 years I'll be happy to eat my words and I'm clearly biased but it's hard for me to remain quiet when this topic comes up
04-07-11, 12:03 PM
#356
his time should be limited ONCE again. I have done my deed for this forum as well as others. Now its just a matter of time.
04-07-11, 12:23 PM
#357
David,
The only thing that's kept the crazy prices of the Surpa so high is the lack of available cars. Imagine if there were only 5k FDs and of those 5k only 2k were manuals. I would absolutely pay 30k plus for a decent FD if I couldn't find one for 15. I think it's the value that has a lot of people fooled when it comes to the FD. Just because the supra commands a high price people give it much more respect than it deserves.
Regarding the performance level of the supra I have to laugh because they are not performers in any way shape or form on a road course with out HUGE investments in every single part of the car and the brakes are the worst part. It's a 3400 pound car that will easily make 400 hp so you have to practically run 19" wheels with 17" rotors to stop the damn thing. The FD will absolutely demolish it with half the investment and look so much better doing it. I understand that it's a hole different story on a drag strip so I'll happily give the supra that victory.
No doubt in the GT race Toyota beat everybody back in the 90s and the supra is a very cool GT car even today but in my view the looks no longer do anything for me so I'd rather just buy a new m3, Audi or 10 other nice GT cars made today that make big power, have nice interiors and are comfortable to drive. However if you want to compete with the FD you'll need to drop 100k on one of today's late model cars to find the same joy. I'm not talking #s I'm talking fun cars to drive which in a nut shell is what a sports car is and the FD had that in the 90s and still has it today
The 240 and NSX may be hard for the FD to beat but I seriously think it will. The supra doesn't belong in the same sentence
PS In 10 or 20 years I'll be happy to eat my words and I'm clearly biased but it's hard for me to remain quiet when this topic comes up
The only thing that's kept the crazy prices of the Surpa so high is the lack of available cars. Imagine if there were only 5k FDs and of those 5k only 2k were manuals. I would absolutely pay 30k plus for a decent FD if I couldn't find one for 15. I think it's the value that has a lot of people fooled when it comes to the FD. Just because the supra commands a high price people give it much more respect than it deserves.
Regarding the performance level of the supra I have to laugh because they are not performers in any way shape or form on a road course with out HUGE investments in every single part of the car and the brakes are the worst part. It's a 3400 pound car that will easily make 400 hp so you have to practically run 19" wheels with 17" rotors to stop the damn thing. The FD will absolutely demolish it with half the investment and look so much better doing it. I understand that it's a hole different story on a drag strip so I'll happily give the supra that victory.
No doubt in the GT race Toyota beat everybody back in the 90s and the supra is a very cool GT car even today but in my view the looks no longer do anything for me so I'd rather just buy a new m3, Audi or 10 other nice GT cars made today that make big power, have nice interiors and are comfortable to drive. However if you want to compete with the FD you'll need to drop 100k on one of today's late model cars to find the same joy. I'm not talking #s I'm talking fun cars to drive which in a nut shell is what a sports car is and the FD had that in the 90s and still has it today
The 240 and NSX may be hard for the FD to beat but I seriously think it will. The supra doesn't belong in the same sentence
PS In 10 or 20 years I'll be happy to eat my words and I'm clearly biased but it's hard for me to remain quiet when this topic comes up
You are a rare bread though. 90% of car enthusiasts will never run a road coarse, or not more than a couple times a year. If you look at the time attacks in Japan it is the FD and NSX that are still competitive behind the STI and EVO. However, you couldnt make me buy an NSX for the going rate of one. Beautiful car but when I drove one it did nothing for me(keeping price in mind).
The Supra is one of the few imports that gets any respect from the American muscle car guys. Im a FD guy all the way and never see myself spending the money for a Supra to keep, however, it is still a very impressive and capable machine.
I know you are comparing cost for road coarse racing but look at maintenance cost of an FD vs a Supra. The FD isnt much cheaper if you own it more than a couple years and actually drive it. Plus Mazda parts are FN ridiculous, you would think we are working on Ferraris for what we pay to replace stuff on these cars.
04-07-11, 01:01 PM
#359
*** Bless The USA
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saint Louis / Illinois
Posts: 7,139
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hammer... I didn't really want to post again on the NSX, since it can be somewhat like visiting the New York Times online and reading the comments without Quaaludes. But, hey. There are a lot of cars that have been suggested here as alternatives to an FD and many are attractive in various ways. The NSX is a special car, like the FD.
Both are the ultimate enthusiast products of their respective and hugely capable Japanese auto manufacturers. Both were built in relatively small numbers. The FD is the more beautiful car, but the NSX is a conservative exotic design that in more than one way manages to hold its own in the looks department and especially the early cars with the contrasting black canopy. Both have extremely high revving engines that have high specific outputs of about 100 hp per liter and the Honda's wail with the right exhaust is soulful whereas the 13b sounds, well, zoom, zoom, hmmm, hmmm. Both cars are handling masterpieces, but the NSX has the more refined and mature ride, while still being able to lap with the higher hp cars.
Anyway, the NSX, like the FD, is a collectible Japanese supercar, whereas, say, the Supra or S2000 will never be more than among the "better" and more desirable sports cars of their day. The NSX is a deeply appealing choice that would be a good investment if conservatively modified or stock-ish.
Gordon
Both are the ultimate enthusiast products of their respective and hugely capable Japanese auto manufacturers. Both were built in relatively small numbers. The FD is the more beautiful car, but the NSX is a conservative exotic design that in more than one way manages to hold its own in the looks department and especially the early cars with the contrasting black canopy. Both have extremely high revving engines that have high specific outputs of about 100 hp per liter and the Honda's wail with the right exhaust is soulful whereas the 13b sounds, well, zoom, zoom, hmmm, hmmm. Both cars are handling masterpieces, but the NSX has the more refined and mature ride, while still being able to lap with the higher hp cars.
Anyway, the NSX, like the FD, is a collectible Japanese supercar, whereas, say, the Supra or S2000 will never be more than among the "better" and more desirable sports cars of their day. The NSX is a deeply appealing choice that would be a good investment if conservatively modified or stock-ish.
Gordon
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
04-07-11, 01:03 PM
#360
Gordon,
I think you need to get the GTR as your in between car between your 850 and FD... as of now, you have too many cars in the 90s... Unless you have something else we don't know about
Joking aside... I would of bought an NSX if it wasn't for people I have met.. Who knows, If I have money to blow or see a great deal on one, I might jump in.. But definitely not as an FD replacement.. Its more like, "I bought one.. I'll drive it and see... tell people I had one... and I'll get rid of it for the GTR"
I think you need to get the GTR as your in between car between your 850 and FD... as of now, you have too many cars in the 90s... Unless you have something else we don't know about
Joking aside... I would of bought an NSX if it wasn't for people I have met.. Who knows, If I have money to blow or see a great deal on one, I might jump in.. But definitely not as an FD replacement.. Its more like, "I bought one.. I'll drive it and see... tell people I had one... and I'll get rid of it for the GTR"
04-07-11, 01:10 PM
#361
Thanks for the reply Gordon, yeah I realize I’m making trouble in the lions den by posting here. I don’t mean to talk down on the RX7, I had a lot of fun with mine over the years. I didn’t know anything about cars until I bought my first FD back in 99. I got a real quick crash course in becoming a mechanic. That’s the good thing about owning a RX7. Now, I find myself not knowing a thing about my current car or where to begin with learning piston engines, Ha.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
That being said, I know I been giving you a hard time about NSX... but deep inside somewhere,.... after eliminating all the idiots I've dealt with, I still would like to own one. Maybe for a year, maybe longer, but part of me did love this car and have came close to owning it couple of times. We'll see.... After the new home (3 car garage with a lift) and my old one sells, and after my 20B FD project (getting much closer), I might be able to buy something....
04-07-11, 01:29 PM
#363
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by non-qwik7
his time should be limited ONCE again. I have done my deed for this forum as well as others. Now its just a matter of time.
Last edited by yzf-r1; 04-07-11 at 01:32 PM.
04-07-11, 01:42 PM
#364
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that's a given. Honda has neutered and/or entirely eliminated sports cars for some time now, perhaps Toyota's foray back into the sports car market convinced them they need to improve brand image - let's hope so; however, Acura styling as of late has been truly horrid
04-07-11, 02:56 PM
#366
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
Thanks for the reply Gordon, yeah I realize I’m making trouble in the lions den by posting here. I don’t mean to talk down on the RX7, I had a lot of fun with mine over the years. I didn’t know anything about cars until I bought my first FD back in 99. I got a real quick crash course in becoming a mechanic. That’s the good thing about owning a RX7. Now, I find myself not knowing a thing about my current car or where to begin with learning piston engines, Ha.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
04-07-11, 02:58 PM
#367
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
Fritz... Are you sure we're not related in some way? I agree with your assessment of the Supra completely.
Hammer... Some people are just nasty and not too smart in the judicious sense. Judgement is at a premium in this life. Like global warming alarmists, there are some here who would ignore nice cars selling for $28,000 as a mistake since it doesn't support their belief that the FD is not a collectible or valuable car that should sell for that kind of money.
Gordon
Hammer... Some people are just nasty and not too smart in the judicious sense. Judgement is at a premium in this life. Like global warming alarmists, there are some here who would ignore nice cars selling for $28,000 as a mistake since it doesn't support their belief that the FD is not a collectible or valuable car that should sell for that kind of money.
Gordon
04-07-11, 03:37 PM
#369
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
You are a rare bread though. 90% of car enthusiasts will never run a road coarse, or not more than a couple times a year. If you look at the time attacks in Japan it is the FD and NSX that are still competitive behind the STI and EVO. However, you couldnt make me buy an NSX for the going rate of one. Beautiful car but when I drove one it did nothing for me(keeping price in mind).
The Supra is one of the few imports that gets any respect from the American muscle car guys. Im a FD guy all the way and never see myself spending the money for a Supra to keep, however, it is still a very impressive and capable machine.
I know you are comparing cost for road coarse racing but look at maintenance cost of an FD vs a Supra. The FD isnt much cheaper if you own it more than a couple years and actually drive it. Plus Mazda parts are FN ridiculous, you would think we are working on Ferraris for what we pay to replace stuff on these cars.
The Supra is one of the few imports that gets any respect from the American muscle car guys. Im a FD guy all the way and never see myself spending the money for a Supra to keep, however, it is still a very impressive and capable machine.
I know you are comparing cost for road coarse racing but look at maintenance cost of an FD vs a Supra. The FD isnt much cheaper if you own it more than a couple years and actually drive it. Plus Mazda parts are FN ridiculous, you would think we are working on Ferraris for what we pay to replace stuff on these cars.
I may invest a little in my car to keep from being completely embarrassed in the coming months.
04-07-11, 03:59 PM
#370
Thanks for the reply Gordon, yeah I realize I’m making trouble in the lions den by posting here. I don’t mean to talk down on the RX7, I had a lot of fun with mine over the years. I didn’t know anything about cars until I bought my first FD back in 99. I got a real quick crash course in becoming a mechanic. That’s the good thing about owning a RX7. Now, I find myself not knowing a thing about my current car or where to begin with learning piston engines, Ha.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
It was just time for me to move on, with age, my priorities changed, big HP and the things associated with it wasn’t important like it once was. Plus, I just didn’t have the time or desire for the required wrenching and maintenance the rotary requires. Although it’s nice driving a car and not worrying about tinkering, I kind of miss it.
I guess all that matters is, I’m having fun and my wife stopped bitching.
The NSX, LIKE THE FD, is a purist sports car. So when you come here showing off your magazine worthy, extremely good looking nsx, some people either post out of jealousy to try to put you down, or post out of anger. Maybe because they wish they had one, or they knock you down pretending they never wanted one, just because they DONT/CANT have one lol.
What seems to be happening here is they try to discredit the car for its flaws but never look at its positives first, so when you come and try to defend it, it will seem like you're the bad guy and you wont be heard. And its to their advantage because well, this IS an rx7 forum.
Whether people like it or not. The NSX is an exotic. The GTR (now being mentioned) is a SUPERCAR.
FACT. No ifs ands or buts. Not like this is what i feel, these are facts. So people need to accept it already. Actually that PERSON needs to accept it already. But i wont mention names mahjik
lol
04-07-11, 04:16 PM
#371
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just can't let it go without getting in another shot, can ya?
Like I said before, an old roommate of mine had one - paid $23k for it - I drove it several times, and I freely admit it handles great, although it didn't wow me in the power output dept. Again, it looks dated in my opinion, and in the opinion of several "car guys" I know - regardless of what it costs or the bragging rights that goes with that - same thing goes for older cars like the Testarossa, these cars appeal to a similar audience who are more about image/nostalgia than performance for the buck. All I care about is performance for hard earned dollar invested - period. Let's put the "envy" bs to bed and fast because I'm not envious of the NSX in the least. I never drove an FD for image, although I like how it looks.
Like I said before, an old roommate of mine had one - paid $23k for it - I drove it several times, and I freely admit it handles great, although it didn't wow me in the power output dept. Again, it looks dated in my opinion, and in the opinion of several "car guys" I know - regardless of what it costs or the bragging rights that goes with that - same thing goes for older cars like the Testarossa, these cars appeal to a similar audience who are more about image/nostalgia than performance for the buck. All I care about is performance for hard earned dollar invested - period. Let's put the "envy" bs to bed and fast because I'm not envious of the NSX in the least. I never drove an FD for image, although I like how it looks.
04-07-11, 04:22 PM
#372
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me add that I firmly believe Honda ripped off many styling cues from Ferrari when they designed the NSX. The NSX is very similar to the Testarossa, minus the side strakes of course. Ferrari are the gods - everyone else follows.
04-07-11, 05:02 PM
#375
Wow, this thread went from "what would you replace your car with if you gave up your FD" to " Does the NSX fall in the supercar or Exotic category, or if it looks better".
Guys, this thread is not about comparing cars, the OP just wanted to know what car would you replace the FD with if you had to.
So just state what you would replace the FD with and that's it...
Guys, this thread is not about comparing cars, the OP just wanted to know what car would you replace the FD with if you had to.
So just state what you would replace the FD with and that's it...