How to value your FD
08-15-17, 09:00 AM
#401
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Kid in our group says he just sold his 92 rhd for c$17,000. Buyer is a private dealer intending to sell to the us. Sales price is likely Close to auction prices in Japan adjusted for import cost. The price level would indicate a perhaps 80 % jump since 2015 for equivalent car.
On nice cars here in the states I think we've seen a 25 percent jump this year alone. Or a 25k car last year is selling for 30k this year.
What's becoming more and more important is year, color, sunroof vs not.
The most difficult FD/least valuable is a 93 VR/tan touring and 93 MB/tan touring.
The most sought after FD is without question a 95 CW base. If anyone is selling please let me know
08-15-17, 02:46 PM
#402
Mark up to Market
Kid in our group says he just sold his 92 rhd for c$17,000. Buyer is a private dealer intending to sell to the us. Sales price is likely Close to auction prices in Japan adjusted for import cost. The price level would indicate a perhaps 80 % jump since 2015 for equivalent car.
If the broker is paying C$17,000 here what is his target selling price?
C$17,000
Province Sales Tax (5%): $850
Transport to US West: $1000
VI/Documentaiton (?) at destination: $1000.
Total before margin: C$19,850.
Target margin (25%?):C$4962
Target selling price: C$24,802
In US$ (divide by 1.30): US$19,078.
The broker seems to be happy and he/she looking for other cars here.
Last edited by Redbul; 08-15-17 at 02:49 PM. Reason: spelling
08-15-17, 03:26 PM
#403
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these cars are just going in circles within the RX7 community? It seems like it's a very niche market even though the exterior has a very broad appeal, I wouldn't expect most to know the minute details on what makes one more expensive than the other, other than mileage and transmission. I would think trim and color would be less important to a first-time RX-7 buyer than a more seasoned one. For example, if it was my first FD, I wouldn't hold out and pay 10k more for a 30k mile 95 R2 vs a 130k mile 93 Touring.
08-15-17, 03:34 PM
#404
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these cars are just going in circles within the RX7 community? It seems like it's a very niche market even though the exterior has a very broad appeal, I wouldn't expect most to know the minute details on what makes one more expensive than the other, other than mileage and transmission. I would think trim and color would be less important to a first-time RX-7 buyer than a more seasoned one. For example, if it was my first FD, I wouldn't hold out and pay 10k more for a 30k mile 95 R2 vs a 130k mile 93 Touring.
If someone were to offer me $33K for my car I would seriously consider it.
08-15-17, 07:33 PM
#405
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Low interest rates... Couple of points on this. First, as I said, rates are rising and will continue to rise over the next several years, though I suspect the 10 year benchmark will end up around 4% and not the historic 6%... Second, while you look at the "benefit" of low rates, you are actually forgetting the great damage they have done to the economy. An enormous number of people are totally dependent on fixed income funds for their retirement or to augment their current incomes. During the Obama era of low rates, these people did not earn a dime. Nothing. Nada. Savings accounts paid nothing. Fixed income funds paid nothing. Soooo, these people spent nothing. Bought nothing and effectively lowered the GDP.
Failing middle class... Complicated and hard to solve. Biggest reason is decades of automation of all types eliminating so many factory and accounting and administration jobs combined with colleges churning out millions of people with communications and African midwifery majors that have absolutely no value in the workplace.We need to emphasize vocational education. A welder in North Dakota makes $150,000 a year, but the elite snicker at the job title. There is no such thing as an American education system anymore. Young people pay colleges to brainwash them and put them into the misery of long term debt. (Actually, the college debt is the parting shot of the brainwashing. Anyone with that kind of debt and no job and living in their parents basement is bound to hate the American system even more...)
Failing middle class... Complicated and hard to solve. Biggest reason is decades of automation of all types eliminating so many factory and accounting and administration jobs combined with colleges churning out millions of people with communications and African midwifery majors that have absolutely no value in the workplace.We need to emphasize vocational education. A welder in North Dakota makes $150,000 a year, but the elite snicker at the job title. There is no such thing as an American education system anymore. Young people pay colleges to brainwash them and put them into the misery of long term debt. (Actually, the college debt is the parting shot of the brainwashing. Anyone with that kind of debt and no job and living in their parents basement is bound to hate the American system even more...)
Lets hope we raise rates and lower debt before we attempt to borrow mass amounts for the next economic stimulation to help the banks and insurance companies. We can also prey that china and the rest of world still like our t bills.
The kids or upcoming middle class are battling:
an elite gov that's all about corporate bail outs etc... to save the economy at the expense of the young in the form of debt
student loans
sh#tty jobs
expensive living expenses top to bottom
expensive health insurance at the expense of the young
depression from the disconnected digital society and anxiety
because of the above battle etc...
The young and middle class is who our gov should be supporting but they've been completely failing at their job for decades.
I don't mean to be all doom and gloom but that's how I see it LOL
08-16-17, 08:34 AM
#407
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Different buyers have different needs. A guy with money to burn will pay the extra, and buy the nicer car every time. A guy on a tight budget will likely be forced to go with the less expensive model, which may cost him more in the long run.
If someone were to offer me $33K for my car I would seriously consider it.
If someone were to offer me $33K for my car I would seriously consider it.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these cars are just going in circles within the RX7 community? It seems like it's a very niche market even though the exterior has a very broad appeal, I wouldn't expect most to know the minute details on what makes one more expensive than the other, other than mileage and transmission. I would think trim and color would be less important to a first-time RX-7 buyer than a more seasoned one. For example, if it was my first FD, I wouldn't hold out and pay 10k more for a 30k mile 95 R2 vs a 130k mile 93 Touring.
Which is why a touring with 130k miles sells for 15k and the R2 sells for 30k 
Anyone buying a even a 15k 25 year old sports car has a pretty good handle on the market. It's all relative to available cash.
As Adam pointed out you start out looking for the cleanest lowest mileage example that's in your price range. If you are a bargain hunter you don't worry about options. Also in the current market I'd buy now because prices will likely be higher next year.
08-16-17, 06:51 PM
#409
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Hahaha! I'd hate to read your thoughts if you WERE all doom and gloom, then...
Remember what it must have been like for the children during the depression. No money. Little food. No homes. Parents out of work and broke.
If the government was smart, it would not only try to bring back or increase manufacturing jobs, but would identify jobs that are hard or impossible to automate and focus tax breaks and stimulus on those sectors.
But, the schools are responsible for a lot of the problems. Many "middle class" technical jobs go unfilled, because there are not enough Americans trained in those areas. Schools no longer focus on reading, and writing, and arithmetic. Human rights, transgender studies, sensitivity courses, communications... All these soft and absolutely useless courses. And, this completely ignores the manual labor jobs, some of which pay very well, but so many young people have been taught that these jobs are somehow "beneath" them. We not only live in perilous times, but very, very silly times.
Remember what it must have been like for the children during the depression. No money. Little food. No homes. Parents out of work and broke.
If the government was smart, it would not only try to bring back or increase manufacturing jobs, but would identify jobs that are hard or impossible to automate and focus tax breaks and stimulus on those sectors.
But, the schools are responsible for a lot of the problems. Many "middle class" technical jobs go unfilled, because there are not enough Americans trained in those areas. Schools no longer focus on reading, and writing, and arithmetic. Human rights, transgender studies, sensitivity courses, communications... All these soft and absolutely useless courses. And, this completely ignores the manual labor jobs, some of which pay very well, but so many young people have been taught that these jobs are somehow "beneath" them. We not only live in perilous times, but very, very silly times.
Compared to ancient times people on welfare are living like kings today.
I also agree that colleges for the most part are a waste of money unless you know exactly why you are there and need the degree to move forward.
How Liberal Professors Are Ruining College
08-23-17, 03:29 PM
#410
im sorry to see how some RX7 owner think that if they do a single turbo conversion that cost them 6K, that will add over 6k+ value to their cars. same as a 10K paint job will add 10K+ value. in the car business there is a limit and in high performance parts, in most cases you're up to a loss. most of the cars listed at high price don't sell at the listing price unless is really a qualifier for a hard to find like example, R1/R2 CYM, SSM, CW, and maybe BB. low miles, nearly stock, original paint, etc..
on the other end highly modify FD's like 20B or 26B even LS swapped FD's might be valued different because of the amount of work done to get it to be complete. due to its unique some buyers are willing to pay a big price for it.
My family use to own a small dealership for several years here in TX where i was very involved, that teach me a lot about how to really value a car and when to recognize a great deal.
on the other end highly modify FD's like 20B or 26B even LS swapped FD's might be valued different because of the amount of work done to get it to be complete. due to its unique some buyers are willing to pay a big price for it.
My family use to own a small dealership for several years here in TX where i was very involved, that teach me a lot about how to really value a car and when to recognize a great deal.
08-24-17, 09:32 AM
#411
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im sorry to see how some RX7 owner think that if they do a single turbo conversion that cost them 6K, that will add over 6k+ value to their cars. same as a 10K paint job will add 10K+ value. in the car business there is a limit and in high performance parts, in most cases you're up to a loss. most of the cars listed at high price don't sell at the listing price unless is really a qualifier for a hard to find like example, R1/R2 CYM, SSM, CW, and maybe BB. low miles, nearly stock, original paint, etc..
on the other end highly modify FD's like 20B or 26B even LS swapped FD's might be valued different because of the amount of work done to get it to be complete. due to its unique some buyers are willing to pay a big price for it.
My family use to own a small dealership for several years here in TX where i was very involved, that teach me a lot about how to really value a car and when to recognize a great deal.
on the other end highly modify FD's like 20B or 26B even LS swapped FD's might be valued different because of the amount of work done to get it to be complete. due to its unique some buyers are willing to pay a big price for it.
My family use to own a small dealership for several years here in TX where i was very involved, that teach me a lot about how to really value a car and when to recognize a great deal.
If the mods are the latest greatest and installed properly etc... they can and do add value at a potential 50 cents on the dollar rate. If you are adding a cheap single turbo kit, with cheap injectors etc... and the car cough cough needs a tune you have entered the deflation fast lane so buckle up for a BIG loss.
There's definitely a point of no return when it comes to modding and once the line is crossed you won't get any return and will likely devalue your car. This usually starts with removing the PS, AC, Radio, interior parts, adding a roll bar, single turbo and body kit etc...etc... At some point it becomes financially prudent to part the car out completely or return it to stock.
08-24-17, 11:05 AM
#412
That point is the very first mod you can't easily reverse when you sell. There isn't a single mod that will add value to a car exceeding the cost of the mod, cost of installation, and the original value of the car. These cars aren't even collector status and it will take some time before they are, if they ever are. Clean low mile originals are still barely worth than their sticker prices. That may change slowly over the next few years, but not enough to justify storing one and keeping the miles down...and no one is going to store a modded car, those are just drivers, and if you have $25-30k to spend on a driver, you have a lot of options besides an FD.
08-24-17, 11:32 AM
#413
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That point is the very first mod you can't easily reverse when you sell. There isn't a single mod that will add value to a car exceeding the cost of the mod, cost of installation, and the original value of the car. These cars aren't even collector status and it will take some time before they are, if they ever are. Clean low mile originals are still barely worth than their sticker prices. That may change slowly over the next few years, but not enough to justify storing one and keeping the miles down...and no one is going to store a modded car, those are just drivers, and if you have $25-30k to spend on a driver, you have a lot of options besides an FD.
Buy the FD that best suits your needs and drive it. Invest in stocks etc....
08-24-17, 12:27 PM
#414
Recovering Miataholic
There isn't a single mod that will add value to a car exceeding the cost of the mod, cost of installation, and the original value of the car.
Last edited by wstrohm; 08-24-17 at 08:22 PM.
08-24-17, 12:31 PM
#415
I've always thought of my FD the way Jerry Seinfeld describes his 1973 Porsche Carrera RS, I think it's actually one of the nicest compliments you can give a car:
“I bought it from a dead guy, and it’s not getting sold again until I’m dead. This car doesn’t change hands without someone dying.”
– Jerry Seinfeld
“I bought it from a dead guy, and it’s not getting sold again until I’m dead. This car doesn’t change hands without someone dying.”
– Jerry Seinfeld
08-25-17, 10:05 PM
#417
Exactly. But too bad most people are hung up on the idea of thier car holding value and afraid to do much or let alone drive it .. then what's the point =_= like. If all of a sudden FDs market value cuts in half across the board what are you gonna do ?
08-26-17, 08:28 PM
#419
Or second year card.
So is this the FD Mickey Mantle Rookie Card equivalent, or second year card equivalent? What would make an FD like this worth more than $50,000? What is the nearest known comparable?
Does Jay Leono have an FD yet?
Does Jay Leono have an FD yet?
Last edited by Redbul; 08-26-17 at 08:32 PM.
08-27-17, 05:55 AM
#420
That point is the very first mod you can't easily reverse when you sell. There isn't a single mod that will add value to a car exceeding the cost of the mod, cost of installation, and the original value of the car. These cars aren't even collector status and it will take some time before they are, if they ever are. Clean low mile originals are still barely worth than their sticker prices. That may change slowly over the next few years, but not enough to justify storing one and keeping the miles down...and no one is going to store a modded car, those are just drivers, and if you have $25-30k to spend on a driver, you have a lot of options besides an FD.
I was so happy to get my current VR R1 for the price I did just a few months ago but I've already spent so much money modding and fixing things, the possible return is irrelevant now. No turning back now, this car will never be for sale. I would imagine a lot of guys in this thread have spent much more than the value of their cars and thus would not let it go even at a very high offer. The vast majority of FDs we see for sale are pretty messed up or have some odd story, so the truly clean examples are not leaving our hands, and if they do, they're likely going around in our own community by word of mouth.
I'm starting to regret selling my 94 CW last year after reading this thread though...don't miss my 93 VR touring much though.
08-27-17, 09:19 AM
#421
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I've always thought of my FD the way Jerry Seinfeld describes his 1973 Porsche Carrera RS, I think it's actually one of the nicest compliments you can give a car:
“I bought it from a dead guy, and it’s not getting sold again until I’m dead. This car doesn’t change hands without someone dying.”
– Jerry Seinfeld
“I bought it from a dead guy, and it’s not getting sold again until I’m dead. This car doesn’t change hands without someone dying.”
– Jerry Seinfeld
DRIVE IT!!!! Life is uncertain.
You can buy a good roller for 12k that has less than 100k miles:
Paint it for 12k
New engine 5k
New turbos 2800
Really good trans 1200
Wiring harness 800
interior bits 4k
etc....
Still have some room to mod and end up with a much better car overall. 40k is still a crazy amount of money in the FD world. At this time If a buyer is Paying 50k or more for ANY low mileage BONE STOCK FD they should have their head examined.
There are very VERY few FDs that don't need paint. The factory paint was terrible so even extremely well cared for cars have mechanic dents, chips etc......
The engine as mentioned previously in this thread is prone to rust problems etc....etc....
Ihor Huk just posted up this Craigs List ad for a car a friend of his is selling and says its as clean as they come. 13,000 miles and 1 owner in VR with black interior. Not an R1, but has R1 lip and spoiler. Asking $50,000.
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto...274407219.html
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto...274407219.html
I kind of store mine...spend more time modding it than actually driving it but mostly because I have nowhere to go.
I was so happy to get my current VR R1 for the price I did just a few months ago but I've already spent so much money modding and fixing things, the possible return is irrelevant now. No turning back now, this car will never be for sale. I would imagine a lot of guys in this thread have spent much more than the value of their cars and thus would not let it go even at a very high offer. The vast majority of FDs we see for sale are pretty messed up or have some odd story, so the truly clean examples are not leaving our hands, and if they do, they're likely going around in our own community by word of mouth.
I'm starting to regret selling my 94 CW last year after reading this thread though...don't miss my 93 VR touring much though.
I was so happy to get my current VR R1 for the price I did just a few months ago but I've already spent so much money modding and fixing things, the possible return is irrelevant now. No turning back now, this car will never be for sale. I would imagine a lot of guys in this thread have spent much more than the value of their cars and thus would not let it go even at a very high offer. The vast majority of FDs we see for sale are pretty messed up or have some odd story, so the truly clean examples are not leaving our hands, and if they do, they're likely going around in our own community by word of mouth.
I'm starting to regret selling my 94 CW last year after reading this thread though...don't miss my 93 VR touring much though.
When we start seeing low mile stock cars priced at $35-40,000, its not a stretch to think there are going to be cars priced at $50,000? Many -- or several -- of us have been predicting that FD pricing would take off and I was one of those who thought it would have happened sooner. Lord knows, Supras were never inherently worth as much as an FD and look at their pricing. This car is no unicorn, but a precursor.
BOTTOMLINE: there is no 93 FD on this planet that I'd pay 40k for much less 50k. CW base 95 with zero miles I'd consider 40 or 45k ....hey one can dream......LOL
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 08-27-17 at 10:03 AM.
08-27-17, 12:36 PM
#422
Recovering Miataholic
CW base 95 with zero miles I'd consider 40 or 45k ....hey one can dream......LOL
08-27-17, 02:10 PM
#423
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Biggest difference is ABS pump was updated. No EGR (which is the biggest PIA on 94s). Probably a few little things that improved the build quality but more importantly it's the last year they were available.
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08-27-17, 04:16 PM
#424
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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That point is the very first mod you can't easily reverse when you sell. There isn't a single mod that will add value to a car exceeding the cost of the mod, cost of installation, and the original value of the car. These cars aren't even collector status and it will take some time before they are, if they ever are. Clean low mile originals are still barely worth than their sticker prices. That may change slowly over the next few years, but not enough to justify storing one and keeping the miles down...and no one is going to store a modded car, those are just drivers, and if you have $25-30k to spend on a driver, you have a lot of options besides an FD.
Aluminum radiator & AST and downpipe is a pretty good start. I suppose wheels and suspension are easily reversed if need be, but I'd prefer a car with some fresh components over original old dusty/rusty/prone to crack/covered in cobwebs.
My 1000 mile MB came with some work done to it, and I've never been able to bring myself to bring it back to stock...... still has emissions and ice cold a/c, but that extra 75 rwhp, SBG HIDs, and larger and better fitting wheels and tires aren't coming off any time soon
My 2 cents
08-27-17, 05:37 PM
#425
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Disagree...... the car was not perfect stock out of the box and you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.
Aluminum radiator & AST and downpipe is a pretty good start. I suppose wheels and suspension are easily reversed if need be, but I'd prefer a car with some fresh components over original old dusty/rusty/prone to crack/covered in cobwebs.
My 1000 mile MB came with some work done to it, and I've never been able to bring myself to bring it back to stock...... still has emissions and ice cold a/c, but that extra 75 rwhp, SBG HIDs, and larger and better fitting wheels and tires aren't coming off any time soon
My 2 cents
Aluminum radiator & AST and downpipe is a pretty good start. I suppose wheels and suspension are easily reversed if need be, but I'd prefer a car with some fresh components over original old dusty/rusty/prone to crack/covered in cobwebs.
My 1000 mile MB came with some work done to it, and I've never been able to bring myself to bring it back to stock...... still has emissions and ice cold a/c, but that extra 75 rwhp, SBG HIDs, and larger and better fitting wheels and tires aren't coming off any time soon
My 2 cents
BTW that extra 75 or 300 total rwhp is perfection for this car and I will also pay extra for quality bolt ons but no more than 50 cents on the dollar if the stock parts are included