How to value your FD
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Production of the FD was a little over 68,000 worldwide. 15,000 of which were American for 3 years. The NSX had a grand total of 18,000 sold over 15 years worldwide. That's why the price is around 75k for the NSX even though it should be 7.78 times more expensive based solely off production rarity and price of FD (aka 233,400). People are getting those things 66% off!!!
You want to talk about rare, that is rare.
You want to talk about rare, that is rare.
Here's a pretty cool chart for US production: 3rd Gen Mazda RX-7 Production Numbers
I think most everyone on this forum is fully aware the car was built through 2002 in other countries. Thank god because it keeps parts pricing way down especially on the driveline.
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From: South Carolina
I'm just focusing on US production
Here's a pretty cool chart for US production: 3rd Gen Mazda RX-7 Production Numbers
I think most everyone on this forum is fully aware the car was built through 2002 in other countries. Thank god because it keeps parts pricing way down especially on the driveline.
Here's a pretty cool chart for US production: 3rd Gen Mazda RX-7 Production Numbers
I think most everyone on this forum is fully aware the car was built through 2002 in other countries. Thank god because it keeps parts pricing way down especially on the driveline.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
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From: Charlottesville VA 22901
I was focused on that as well. 15,000 USDM for 93, 94, 95 FD. 9636 NSX North America for all 15 years. So 5,000 FD per year compared to 642.4 NSX. If these were the only versions of each car the current prices are pretty accurate. But with JDM being a viable option now we have to give some leeway to the fact there were still 3.78 FD for every 1 NSX worldwide. Truly the FD, NSX, and Supra market is going to be volatile until at least 2030 when all FD, NSX, and Supra are available to our (USA) market. You never know this could be one of the dips or could be the uptrend, no knowing until future us finds out.
Yep and I'm very thankful that the world FD market is huge because I enjoy driving it not collecting it and those parts/cars are favoring my needs.
I don't think RHD cars will effect the price of nice LHD cars. People with money want what they want and 10k won't persuade them to drive a RHD car. It will absolutely persuade folks to buy a RHD car with 40k miles vs a LHD car with 150k though. Or maybe they'll buy both and swap the parts over.
My prediction is the price is just starting to move higher at a good pace and guys like you looking for a decent FD will be spending 25k not 15k in 5 years. What do you think?
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From: South Carolina
Gotcha!
Yep and I'm very thankful that the world FD market is huge because I enjoy driving it not collecting it and those parts/cars are favoring my needs.
I don't think RHD cars will effect the price of nice LHD cars. People with money want what they want and 10k won't persuade them to drive a RHD car. It will absolutely persuade folks to buy a RHD car with 40k miles vs a LHD car with 150k though. Or maybe they'll buy both and swap the parts over.
My prediction is the price is just starting to move higher at a good pace and guys like you looking for a decent FD will be spending 25k not 15k in 5 years. What do you think?
Yep and I'm very thankful that the world FD market is huge because I enjoy driving it not collecting it and those parts/cars are favoring my needs.
I don't think RHD cars will effect the price of nice LHD cars. People with money want what they want and 10k won't persuade them to drive a RHD car. It will absolutely persuade folks to buy a RHD car with 40k miles vs a LHD car with 150k though. Or maybe they'll buy both and swap the parts over.
My prediction is the price is just starting to move higher at a good pace and guys like you looking for a decent FD will be spending 25k not 15k in 5 years. What do you think?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
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From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Indeed the people will buy what they want no denying that. I think the more people modify their FDs the more the stock collectors will go up, I don't think the modified ones will raise much if any in 5 years. It would be a safe bet that the RHD will be seen in the same group as modded cars. The closest ones I've seen to 15k in decent condition aka need paint, higher end of milage talking flirting with 100k+, not a desirable color combo were going for 18-24. The ones you say should be 25k are 28+ and get upset when you offer 25. And then there's the guys posting cars for 36, even saw one for 46.
To me any FD that needs paint work is immediately worth 5k less. If it needs paint and has 100k miles that's pretty much a parts car in my book. Or it's going up on jack stands and I'll take what I need and sell the rest.
To me a decent FD is:
typically under 100k miles
clean title/no paint work/never been wrecked
doesn't need paint
runs and drives well (boost working, no 5th grind, bushings aren't clunking, etc...)
blah blah
There are very few of these (deal type) cars available and I'll keep pointing to the MB on autotrader because that's a great example. In 5 years that's a 25k FD because there won't be any more DEALS!
I think the SSM r2 originally listed for 46 sold for 30 or 32 (which is about right for a buyer that's going to put it on a shelf). It's my understanding the compression was 95 PSI (not the best) and the paint was good but not excellent etc...
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From: South Carolina
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 39
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From: South Carolina
Yes the modding thing will always devalue the car UNLESS it's done tastefully and by that I mean correctly with quality parts that actually enhance the cars driving experience and sometimes even make it more reliable.
To me any FD that needs paint work is immediately worth 5k less. If it needs paint and has 100k miles that's pretty much a parts car in my book. Or it's going up on jack stands and I'll take what I need and sell the rest.
To me a decent FD is:
typically under 100k miles
clean title/no paint work/never been wrecked
doesn't need paint
runs and drives well (boost working, no 5th grind, bushings aren't clunking, etc...)
blah blah
There are very few of these (deal type) cars available and I'll keep pointing to the MB on autotrader because that's a great example. In 5 years that's a 25k FD because there won't be any more DEALS!
I think the SSM r2 originally listed for 46 sold for 30 or 32 (which is about right for a buyer that's going to put it on a shelf). It's my understanding the compression was 95 PSI (not the best) and the paint was good but not excellent etc...
To me any FD that needs paint work is immediately worth 5k less. If it needs paint and has 100k miles that's pretty much a parts car in my book. Or it's going up on jack stands and I'll take what I need and sell the rest.
To me a decent FD is:
typically under 100k miles
clean title/no paint work/never been wrecked
doesn't need paint
runs and drives well (boost working, no 5th grind, bushings aren't clunking, etc...)
blah blah
There are very few of these (deal type) cars available and I'll keep pointing to the MB on autotrader because that's a great example. In 5 years that's a 25k FD because there won't be any more DEALS!
I think the SSM r2 originally listed for 46 sold for 30 or 32 (which is about right for a buyer that's going to put it on a shelf). It's my understanding the compression was 95 PSI (not the best) and the paint was good but not excellent etc...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
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From: Charlottesville VA 22901
I've inquired about that one, not being the ideal one but still an FD regardless and no response. Considering I'm only a few hours away I'm still not going to drive there and not know if the guy even still has it. And what you described as decent is definitely what everyone is trying to pass off for 28k
Here's another decent FD on this forum. It's been for sale for at least 6 months. He started a new thread here recently. Make him an offer
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...socal-1112062/
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From: South Carolina
My guess is that one is sold.
Here's another decent FD on this forum. It's been for sale for at least 6 months. He started a new thread here recently. Make him an offer
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...socal-1112062/
Here's another decent FD on this forum. It's been for sale for at least 6 months. He started a new thread here recently. Make him an offer
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...socal-1112062/
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
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From: South Carolina
The 13 the same place that was posted on this forum. I had actually forgotten where I got 15 from myself, turns out it was one of the posts after that linked site. That would mean there were 1200 less FD at least bought, I'm sure some extra were produced unless all USDM were required to be pre-order only. If they were not pre-order only a 100% purchase of a model 3 years in a row would have surely made Mazda continue US production as nobody has managed this without already having buyers set before their car was made.
Either way we are talking fewer than 10% difference in those numbers. That means instead of 3.78 FD to 1 NSX per year of production for US it's 2.08. Still 3.8:1 world wide. That's why I say collector cars (unmolested USDM) will rise, but not everyone will look this far into it and base their cars value off the trend for a different car that was already $10,000 more expensive when produced. But if you did you would have to factor, giving bias to the FD, 75% of 50% of the average NSX price. If you had the Type R it would be 80% of a little more than 25% of the average NSX since worldwide number would be in play then. Is anyone understanding why this isn't so cut a dry yet? And then you add in special editions on top of that.
At any rate I'm pretty sure the car Fritz says is worth 25, I say is worth 22, forum members say 26-28, and dealers 30+. Why does everyone get bent out if shape over 4-6k when insurance companies and sites like NADA and KBB value these cars at 15 tops? Someone put their car on Barrett Jackson that's when we will get accurate numbers I think.
Either way we are talking fewer than 10% difference in those numbers. That means instead of 3.78 FD to 1 NSX per year of production for US it's 2.08. Still 3.8:1 world wide. That's why I say collector cars (unmolested USDM) will rise, but not everyone will look this far into it and base their cars value off the trend for a different car that was already $10,000 more expensive when produced. But if you did you would have to factor, giving bias to the FD, 75% of 50% of the average NSX price. If you had the Type R it would be 80% of a little more than 25% of the average NSX since worldwide number would be in play then. Is anyone understanding why this isn't so cut a dry yet? And then you add in special editions on top of that.
At any rate I'm pretty sure the car Fritz says is worth 25, I say is worth 22, forum members say 26-28, and dealers 30+. Why does everyone get bent out if shape over 4-6k when insurance companies and sites like NADA and KBB value these cars at 15 tops? Someone put their car on Barrett Jackson that's when we will get accurate numbers I think.
I don't know what else we can possibly tell you. If you want a top mark rx7 you're looking at $25k+ and rising. You can get a "good" FD at $18k, give or take. Anything under that is a steal or a basket case. Fritz is an old school wholesaler(and a reputable one). He's not a collector, or partial to any particular car like buyers may be.
Here's a variety of rx7's that actually sold at public auction, with commentary.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
37k-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring | Bring a Trailer
Original Owner 1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
33K-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring | Bring a Trailer
I realize you can't tell any of those apart(because your more interested in blowing hot air than actually learning about them). But, there you go.
Lord help this newb...
Here's a variety of rx7's that actually sold at public auction, with commentary.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
37k-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring | Bring a Trailer
Original Owner 1993 Mazda RX-7 | Bring a Trailer
33K-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring | Bring a Trailer
I realize you can't tell any of those apart(because your more interested in blowing hot air than actually learning about them). But, there you go.
Lord help this newb...
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 39
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From: South Carolina
I don't know what else we can possibly tell you. If you want a top mark rx7 you're looking at $25k+ and rising. You can get a "good" FD at $18k, give or take. Anything under that is a steal or a basket case. Fritz is an old school wholesaler(and a reputable one). He's not a collector, or partial to any particular car like buyers may be.
Here's a variety of rx7's that actually sold at public auction, with commentary.
1995 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
37k-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring Bring a Trailer
Original Owner 1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
33K-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring Bring a Trailer
I realize you can't tell any of those apart(because your more interested in blowing hot air than actually learning about them). But, there you go.
Lord help this newb...
Here's a variety of rx7's that actually sold at public auction, with commentary.
1995 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
37k-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring Bring a Trailer
Original Owner 1993 Mazda RX-7 Bring a Trailer
33K-Mile 1993 Mazda RX-7 Touring Bring a Trailer
I realize you can't tell any of those apart(because your more interested in blowing hot air than actually learning about them). But, there you go.
Lord help this newb...
Any way congrats you put up auctions where the prices were sporadic at best. The one for 15.5 was to me not worth buying to have stained seats and carpet in a second rate color combo 77k miles. The Red on Tan, 26 and the carpet yet again stained with looked like it could have been oil. Sure it was what 37k miles. I just don't buy that going from Blue to Red and dropping half the miles is worth 10k.
I'm no longer seriously interested in buying on of these, but I do enjoy seeing that there's quite a few people upset their FD isn't ringing the same price as Supras. I saw a poll earlier today where there was 4 times the interest is skylines (bleh) and 3 times the interest in Supras over the FD. Guess your buyers would rather spend their money elsewhere.
So because he's not partial means 30 is acceptable?
Any way congrats you put up auctions where the prices were sporadic at best. The one for 15.5 was to me not worth buying to have stained seats and carpet in a second rate color combo 77k miles. The Red on Tan, 26 and the carpet yet again stained with looked like it could have been oil. Sure it was what 37k miles. I just don't buy that going from Blue to Red and dropping half the miles is worth 10k.
I'm no longer seriously interested in buying on of these, but I do enjoy seeing that there's quite a few people upset their FD isn't ringing the same price as Supras. I saw a poll earlier today where there was 4 times the interest is skylines (bleh) and 3 times the interest in Supras over the FD. Guess your buyers would rather spend their money elsewhere.
Any way congrats you put up auctions where the prices were sporadic at best. The one for 15.5 was to me not worth buying to have stained seats and carpet in a second rate color combo 77k miles. The Red on Tan, 26 and the carpet yet again stained with looked like it could have been oil. Sure it was what 37k miles. I just don't buy that going from Blue to Red and dropping half the miles is worth 10k.
I'm no longer seriously interested in buying on of these, but I do enjoy seeing that there's quite a few people upset their FD isn't ringing the same price as Supras. I saw a poll earlier today where there was 4 times the interest is skylines (bleh) and 3 times the interest in Supras over the FD. Guess your buyers would rather spend their money elsewhere.
And those sporadic prices relate to the state and options of the cars. Just goes to show you don't know your *** from your elbow.
But, you keep right on talking. Pretty amusing, really.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 39
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From: South Carolina
While it would be nice if my FD was suddenly worth $80k, I'm just happy to have one. It appreciating in value is just a bonus.
And those sporadic prices relate to the state and options of the cars. Just goes to show you don't know your *** from your elbow.
But, you keep right on talking. Pretty amusing, really.
And those sporadic prices relate to the state and options of the cars. Just goes to show you don't know your *** from your elbow.
But, you keep right on talking. Pretty amusing, really.
The missing Canadians.
I will continue to amuse you then cause all that showed was how little interest, both initially and for how long, these things hold. I didn't even care to look at the whole "slew" of options we went on about earlier that's how uninteresting they have become and a good bit of it is contributed to ultimately you not being worthy of an iconic or classic vehicle do to your insecurity of the car's value to others to begin with. You're not living off appreciation of owning the car your just trying to convince yourself you are part of some imaginary elite group. I'll give you a little help, a true car guy says this is what my car and others like it are worth to me. They don't resort to telling someone they are full of hot air for having an unpopular opinion, that turns potential buyers off. I've been offered multiple blank checks for my car before restoration and turned them down, not because I didn't know the value of my car to others, but because to me my car is priceless. I'm not going to post it up asking 30k or 40k knowing it's worth closer to 25k. I may still get one of these in the future but I'll make damn sure it's not from someone like you.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 39
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From: South Carolina
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
Obsessing is a stretch, about a week ago I'd have agreed with you. A mental of weakness I'll call it. Doesn't change the fact that I dislike you personally. So I don't agree with you on what they are worth, you're still insecure and nobody is or should waste their time being envious of you. I know that's what you're fishing for, predictable.
Though I do have to thank you since you single handedly saved me 26k!
Though I do have to thank you since you single handedly saved me 26k!
MC90,
Don't let Narfle get to you. It's what he does.... But
Your statements about how you think these cars aren't really much come off as disingenuous. Because:
1) Why would you be in the market to buy a 25 year old car that isn't all that? That would be asinine.
and
2) Just 6 days ago you posted that you've always drooled over the FD:
So yeah these cars aren't really anything special but yet you drool over them. Come on... Now if it is the price point that is bothering you, then you should look at it on the bright side. Meaning that if anything the rising prices should help in making the decision about the purchase since they are going up in value.
Edit- Now I love my FD and I am never getting rid of it so the rising prices don't really affect me directly. Well other than telling people 'I told you so'
Agree, especially about the job market. Yes the unemployment is down overall, but under-employment is up.
Don't let Narfle get to you. It's what he does.... But
I'm no longer seriously interested in buying on of these, but I do enjoy seeing that there's quite a few people upset their FD isn't ringing the same price as Supras. I saw a poll earlier today where there was 4 times the interest is skylines (bleh) and 3 times the interest in Supras over the FD. Guess your buyers would rather spend their money elsewhere.
1) Why would you be in the market to buy a 25 year old car that isn't all that? That would be asinine.
and
2) Just 6 days ago you posted that you've always drooled over the FD:
Edit- Now I love my FD and I am never getting rid of it so the rising prices don't really affect me directly. Well other than telling people 'I told you so'
The question, therefore, is whether more people will want and buy FD's as the economy actually improves as it seems to be now. Consumer confidence has skyrocketed, more good-paying jobs are being created and, hopefully, we will see a more traditional recovery in the next few years. I believe that when and if this happens we may well see FD prices go up very quickly. What do you guys think?
G
G
Agree, especially about the job market. Yes the unemployment is down overall, but under-employment is up.
Last edited by Montego; Mar 27, 2017 at 02:56 PM.
To refocus on pricing a bit, perhaps we might think about demographic and economic effects that could be at play here right now. It has been said that we have come out of the recession that began around 2008-2009. Many of us do not believe we have ever come out of the recession. Certainly, GDP growth of an alleged 1.5% or so on average does not suggest any great improvement, like we had post 1991 or earlier post 1984, which saw improvements of 4%+ for several years. Also, while unemployment is allegedly below or at 5%, the Obama Administration rather arbitrarily reclassified millions of unemployed as being out of the workforce and, so, they were not counted in the unemployment numbers. In addition, the jobs that were added during the Obama years were largely service and part time jobs, which paid very little. Family incomes declined gradually during the entire 8 years. The young and especially Millennials may have been the hardest hit in terms of unemployment and income. Some estimates suggest 30-40% unemployment. Black Millennials were the hardest hit with unemployment over 50%. So, a large percentage of potential buyers may have been, and may still be, unable to buy cars they want. Middle aged buyers quite often are married and have children and may be saving or more cautious in their buying habits. They may be buying just the family car and may not be able to afford a sports car. Older buyers have the money, but may not have the interest. Many older Americans buy muscle cars and some buy Porsches or other exotics. Some buy FD's, but it is likely a small percentage.
The question, therefore, is whether more people will want and buy FD's as the economy actually improves as it seems to be now. Consumer confidence has skyrocketed, more good-paying jobs are being created and, hopefully, we will see a more traditional recovery in the next few years. I believe that when and if this happens we may well see FD prices go up very quickly. What do you guys think?
G
The question, therefore, is whether more people will want and buy FD's as the economy actually improves as it seems to be now. Consumer confidence has skyrocketed, more good-paying jobs are being created and, hopefully, we will see a more traditional recovery in the next few years. I believe that when and if this happens we may well see FD prices go up very quickly. What do you guys think?
G