How to value your FD
09-29-18, 11:20 AM
#1402
There is no way the fans who love the Supra can sustain the undeserved pricing. The Supra is simply not anywhere near the performance, quality, or collectibility of the FD. The only areas where it is better than the FD is in build quality and reliability in a stock to stock comparison. And if that mattered, used Camry's would be priced at $75,000.
Record breaking brakes, the fastest of all the early 90s Japanese sports cars, Toyota reliability and quality. The engine is legendary and the factory 6 speed trans and rear diff are bulletproof up to 800 wheel hp. Guys have taken this car into the high 7s on the stock trans while driving the car to the track. It's also more rare, especially the turbo models in the US with half the number produced as FDs. Once again, you sound foolish saying it doesn't compare in performance, quality and collectibility. Actually you don't sound foolish, it truly doesn't compare to the FD, it surpasse it in all those categories. The FD has better looks and overall driving experience. I've owned both and I still prefer the FD. That doesn't change the facts about each car though. The Supra is the true collector of the 90s Japanese cars.
09-29-18, 11:26 AM
#1404
The FD is great but it's not the only impressive car to come out of Japan in the 90s.
09-29-18, 11:34 AM
#1405
I don't know the surpa market well but likely typical price for 93 auto with 70k miles
DJ, what are the details on the supra for 150k? Give it 10 years the FD is going by the supra
TRUST THIS........it's the better car in every way shape and form that matter to collectors. Reliability and build quality don't mean anything to a collector or there is nothing practical about the collector market.
DJ, what are the details on the supra for 150k? Give it 10 years the FD is going by the supra
TRUST THIS........it's the better car in every way shape and form that matter to collectors. Reliability and build quality don't mean anything to a collector or there is nothing practical about the collector market.
09-29-18, 11:44 AM
#1406
Yeah. I remember 10 years ago thinking my friend was stupid when he bought a 97TT 6 speed with 120k miles on it for $26k. It's worth at least $50k now.
Not much comparable to it, disable fuel cut, turn boost to 18psi, install front mount intercooler and exhaust, and BAMMM 420whp all day long, on stock twins, ECU, coils, and fuel system. That can be done for less than $1k.
Awesome brakes, add some good coil overs and it handles just fine.
I love my FD but wouldn't mind a Supra too.
Not much comparable to it, disable fuel cut, turn boost to 18psi, install front mount intercooler and exhaust, and BAMMM 420whp all day long, on stock twins, ECU, coils, and fuel system. That can be done for less than $1k.
Awesome brakes, add some good coil overs and it handles just fine.
I love my FD but wouldn't mind a Supra too.
09-29-18, 12:03 PM
#1407
Yeah. I remember 10 years ago thinking my friend was stupid when he bought a 97TT 6 speed with 120k miles on it for $26k. It's worth at least $50k now.
Not much comparable to it, disable fuel cut, turn boost to 18psi, install front mount intercooler and exhaust, and BAMMM 420whp all day long, on stock twins, ECU, coils, and fuel system. That can be done for less than $1k.
Awesome brakes, add some good coil overs and it handles just fine.
I love my FD but wouldn't mind a Supra too.
Not much comparable to it, disable fuel cut, turn boost to 18psi, install front mount intercooler and exhaust, and BAMMM 420whp all day long, on stock twins, ECU, coils, and fuel system. That can be done for less than $1k.
Awesome brakes, add some good coil overs and it handles just fine.
I love my FD but wouldn't mind a Supra too.
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gmonsen (09-29-18)
09-29-18, 02:43 PM
#1409
The Ancient
Supras are fast, well made cars that are currently worth a lot of money and a lot of people like them. A lot of people want them. Just not for me.
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09-29-18, 03:02 PM
#1410
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Here's the infamous Leh Keen (currently a very successful pro road racer) running his Supra back in 2006 at Road atlanta. That lap time would be considered slow today. If he had driven an FD with 1/2 the money he had invested in the supra he would have been in the 20s or instead a of 1.33 he likely could have run a 1.29.
It was a 98 black 6 speed with around 3500 miles. Wasn't even a hard top or coveted Quicksilver or RSP. Collectors care about availability. I see it in the bourbon market all the time. When you tell a man with money he can't have something he will spend foolishly to get his hands on it. The Supra is more rare, especially the turbo models. NA Auto supras are selling close to $30k now. Auto TTs are in the $40s. It's near impossible to touch an original 6speed Supra under $50k even with 100k+ miles on it.
09-29-18, 04:09 PM
#1412
This home-built MKIV driven by its amateur owner on the Nordschleife seemed to put its power down, and turn pretty well.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NosGPJm0ApE[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NosGPJm0ApE[/ame]
09-29-18, 04:47 PM
#1414
Wow, it has to have been 8 years since we've had a good RX7 vs. Supra argument on here. Fun.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
09-29-18, 05:57 PM
#1415
Wow, it has to have been 8 years since we've had a good RX7 vs. Supra argument on here. Fun.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
The over-engineering Toyota applied to the drivetrain is also what makes the car so easily upgradeable to high HP levels. I have my doubts how easily a 2-rotor FD could be made to have the endurance to run a couple of laps of the Nurburgring like the Supra above did, at the power levels necessary to get a comparable time. Short time-attacks and the FD's sharp handling are another matter.
About the Supra not being unique, I would have to strongly disagree. The car was modifiable like no other at the time, and in modified form just destroyed other cars on the street. Although I'm sure plenty will roll their eyes about how not-so-cool straight-line street racing is, nevertheless there was a constant stream of videos in the early 00s showing Supras laying waste to drivers who had no clue a Toyota could perform the way they did. I think this is were the Supra mystique in this country really came about, and what even today continues to drive pricing. It used to be that the most collectible cars had some sort of racing history. The Supra formally has almost none (other than JGTC, which almost does not count). But somehow, all those street-racing/dyno videos and stories about xxxx-HP Supras probably made up for that.
Last edited by Aristo; 09-29-18 at 06:12 PM.
09-29-18, 06:18 PM
#1416
The very little I watch old muscle car auctions the cars bringing the most money are factory or factory restored, the fastest/most powerful of their generation and rare. Cue the Hemi Cuda. My dad still talks about them from his HS days. That's the Supra. It was the faster on the drag strip and road coarse stock for stock with the FD, better built, its more rare and every single body panel is vin tagged along with the engine. It is the true collector, I'm confident in my statement the most sought after US spec FD will struggle to fetch 1/2 the price of the most sought after Supra in 5,10,15 or 20 years. This is a hilarious argument for me because I sold my Supra due to lack of excitement I felt when I got in it and turned the key. Once again that doesn't change the facts.
09-29-18, 06:36 PM
#1417
?
09-30-18, 08:50 AM
#1418
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Wow, it has to have been 8 years since we've had a good RX7 vs. Supra argument on here. Fun.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
We're talking in black and white about shades of grey. Saying a Supra "doesn't turn" in an absolute sense isn't true... but, it doesn't turn like an RX7. Sorry. Almost nothing does. Just like an RX7 accelerates, but it doesn't accelerate like a Supra. It's like arguing over whether cats are dogs are better. The cars were designed after two different molds, for two different sensibilities. I spent plenty of time envying my buddies 800hp Supra, but I didn't buy one for a reason.
I also don't think anyone who bought a Supra is really saying "they just don't make anything like this now" like we are about the RX7... because they do, it's called a GTR or a Z06. Those cars are exactly in the mold as the Supra. And, I don't think the Supra really noteworthy in the sense that it was some big departure or noteworthy concept relative to its contemporaries like the RX7 was, and that may influence collectability in the future.
Here's a great example of the disrespect the FD gets: Top 14 Most Iconic Sports Cars Of All Time - Carophile
I'd have to agree with this statement. These cars were introduced over 25 years ago, and the highest price paid for an FD is ONE-THIRD of that paid for the highest selling MKIV. That gap might close some, but I have no doubt the MKIV will always fetch more than the FD. Sorry Fritz, maybe the RX-7 will catch the Supra sometime in the mid-23rd century ?
? You heard it here 1st LOLThe very little I watch old muscle car auctions the cars bringing the most money are factory or factory restored, the fastest/most powerful of their generation and rare. Cue the Hemi Cuda. My dad still talks about them from his HS days. That's the Supra. It was the faster on the drag strip and road coarse stock for stock with the FD, better built, its more rare and every single body panel is vin tagged along with the engine. It is the true collector, I'm confident in my statement the most sought after US spec FD will struggle to fetch 1/2 the price of the most sought after Supra in 5,10,15 or 20 years. This is a hilarious argument for me because I sold my Supra due to lack of excitement I felt when I got in it and turned the key. Once again that doesn't change the facts.
09-30-18, 09:14 AM
#1419
to think someone waiting 35-40 years to reap it when our competitors have already done so...
who would invest at that rate.... imo.. you would get more out of it by enjoying the car than watching it sit in your garage HOPING the market will catch...
the reputation of our motors will still keep the difference at bay.. as much as i would love to think otherwise...
09-30-18, 09:18 AM
#1420
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even if this is so.... supra reaching the price point much earlier still leaves a massive gap...
to think someone waiting 35-40 years to reap it when our competitors have already done so...
who would invest at that rate.... imo.. you would get more out of it by enjoying the car than watching it sit in your garage HOPING the market will catch...
the reputation of our motors will still keep the difference at bay.. as much as i would love to think otherwise...
to think someone waiting 35-40 years to reap it when our competitors have already done so...
who would invest at that rate.... imo.. you would get more out of it by enjoying the car than watching it sit in your garage HOPING the market will catch...
the reputation of our motors will still keep the difference at bay.. as much as i would love to think otherwise...
If I was a car collector I'd probably own nothing but 911s.
Speaking of 911s here's Leh again qualifying in the rain. His car control skills are sick!!!
09-30-18, 09:54 AM
#1422
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The FD will always have a place in my garage and my heart but I've recently been willing to sacrifice a spot for a GT3 as well
Maybe in a few years I'll be able to justify owning a GT3 and GT4. That would be my dream track car combo.
Maybe in a few years I'll be able to justify owning a GT3 and GT4. That would be my dream track car combo.
09-30-18, 10:44 AM
#1423
I think because the RX7 was such a departure from its contemporaries and sort of ahead of its time, it wasn't well understood and suffered mightily in the import/modding craze, where it was evaluated relative to the standards of other cars deemed "like" it that really weren't.
For it's time, the FD R7 was an exotic made by an economy brand. I used to call it "The Japanese Lotus." That's actually the concept of Gorden's build: "what if it had been made by a higher end brand?" You'll really never see anything like it again I don't think, nobody would be that that stupid (Car companies I mean, not Gorden). And I think it'll be tough for a lot of collectors to get past the brand and see if for what it is, and that may mean that it never really attains the collector value it should for it's significance. But, you're starting to see some hints.
For it's time, the FD R7 was an exotic made by an economy brand. I used to call it "The Japanese Lotus." That's actually the concept of Gorden's build: "what if it had been made by a higher end brand?" You'll really never see anything like it again I don't think, nobody would be that that stupid (Car companies I mean, not Gorden). And I think it'll be tough for a lot of collectors to get past the brand and see if for what it is, and that may mean that it never really attains the collector value it should for it's significance. But, you're starting to see some hints.
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gmonsen (10-03-18)
10-02-18, 05:53 PM
#1424
Rotary Freak
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93 SSM with 180k miles just sold for $28k with BAT auction fees. What the hell is going on ....
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mazda-rx-7-40/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mazda-rx-7-40/
10-02-18, 06:43 PM
#1425
I think because the RX7 was such a departure from its contemporaries and sort of ahead of its time, it wasn't well understood and suffered mightily in the import/modding craze, where it was evaluated relative to the standards of other cars deemed "like" it that really weren't.
Rare is the FD that was spared mods, part outs, bad service, accident history, and misguided ownership over 25+ yrs.
Not sure why collectors are getting dumped on. They're the only ones preserving these cars we love. Everyone else tore them up, parted them out, raced them, left them for dead, fixed them under a shady tree, and sold them to the next one for their own convenience.
Add $10k and you'll know the prices for the same car next summer, bet you lunch.