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How can a Mark V Supra be a good replacement for an FD if it doesn't offer a manual?
If the only thing you care about is whether it's a manual or not, several current "manuals" out there today. I'm referring to size, dimensions, handling, styling, etc.. Sure, it would be great if the MK5 had a manual option. However, there is a reason that all of the current professional GT race cars are not manual.
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
To me, and no offense to anyone, neither the Z nor the Supra would pass the "do I keep looking back and staring at it when I walk away from it" test. I've had an FD since '96. I still do it. Sometimes I just go down to the garage and look at it or sit in it. I decided I wouldn't do it with a Cayman either, or an Evora, or a Corvette.
Exige yes, GT3 yes, maybe an Ultima GTR yes. Do I have a shot at a sub-2:xx lap at VIR or WGI with any of those? Exige, prolly not, GT3 yes, Ultima yes. Can I afford those two? Yes, but not comfortably. So here we are.
The bigger question is how much would it cost to invest in an Exige to get the lap times you desire versus how much you have invested in your FD...
People will always have their own preferences. If they didn't, we wouldn't have people driving around in classics from the 1950's and 60's. They like what they like. I don't think anyone is saying people should replace their FD with something else. The topic seems to geared towards 'if you did, what would it be'. For some like yourself, it may be 'there is nothing available today that I would buy to replace my FD'. For others, that may not be the case because they have different preferences.
While my FD was never modified to the level of yours, I still don't miss it and I wouldn't miss it even if it was more modified. While my F-Type is a heavy car, the chassis is ridiculously stiff. Surprisingly so. Just off the showroom floor, it was much stiffer than my FD with the 4pt installed. I'm sure you understand I don't mean ride quality, but handling stiffness. I would say my 4C is not as stiff as the F-Type, even with it's carbon fiber tube but stiffer than the FD and every bit as maneuverable as my FD ever was (and then some)... Sure, you can throw on some super coilovers and such on the FD but the chassis/materials are still the same. My S2000 doesn't really count as it has a full cage which makes it a different beast.
Designs and materials do improve over the years. Yes, not every new car is better in that area, but many are... That being said, again, everyone has their preferences. Some will move on, some will not. That's up to each individual.
I'm seriously considering the Emira, the problem is I'd want the one with the manual transmission, and I am expecting that would be over $100k versus the $80k for the base model. I rarely feel like spending that much on a car, especially when there are still so many older cars that I would rather buy that would cost less to purchase.
I have always loved the Alfa 4C. A friend of mine got one in 2015. She asked if I'd drive it out to Palm Springs when we went out there for the local Maserati club event (I do not own a Maserati, but I tag along with them for the fun)--she wanted me to A: not show up in my German or Japanese car (lol) and B: folks in the club wanted to see the new Italian addition to her stable.
So, with 200 miles on the odometer, she handed me the keys. For that weekend I got to put about 300 miles on the lil' guy and every moment was a treat. That car is really visceral--you can hear the rocks hitting the underbody from the tires, the whoosh and blow-off from the turbos, little solenoids clicking, doing who-knows-what, you could even hear the brake pads scraping on the rotors. Being so lightweight, I never felt like it was down on power, either.
I also got stopped everywhere I went in Palm Springs by people gawking and wondering what the car was. To this day you hardly ever see them and people stare when they do.
She gave me first dibs when she sold it about a year or two later, but I don't have stable space for it. I might have convinced myself more if only for the fact that I don't truly love DCTs (gimme my stick!) Now though, I regret it as I truly want one again and the prices have gone wonky along with everything else.
As a replacement for the RX-7, the lack of a stick is the only big problem I see, otherwise, look at all the ways it maps directly to our FDs:
1. Shitty stock stereo
2. Two-seater with no place to store a phone
3. Beautiful exterior design
4. Lightweight, turbocharged
5. Almost certain to be unreliable (lol actually the drivetrain and engine have been proven to be solid so far)
6. You never see them on the road
7. People stare at it all the time
8. The trunk is completely impractical
9. It would be challenging to have sex inside
That car is really visceral--you can hear the rocks hitting the underbody from the tires, the whoosh and blow-off from the turbos, little solenoids clicking, doing who-knows-what, you could even hear the brake pads scraping on the rotors. Being so lightweight, I never felt like it was down on power, either.
when i was 16 or something, one of my dads friends took me for a ride in his Ferrari 512bb, and it was like that too, all these noises. ive still never been in another car quite like it. you could hear the valves ticking, and the timing chains. there was some electronic whine from somewhere, and then the carb noise, and the exhaust. at low speeds they all were quite distinct, but rev it up, and they all blended together and it just sounded great.
it was also the first car that i had been in where you had to look UP at the door handle of the honda next to you!
so um yeah Ferrari 512bb, its like a good looking Testarossa
The F-Type is a completely different car (as one would expect) from the RX-7. It's surprisingly wide for a 2-seater and it is heavy. Definitely in a realm of not being a "sports car" heavy. I specifically bought the V6S instead of the V8 model. Not because of costs, but because of two main reasons..
1/ I wanted something my wife would feel comfortable driving.
2/ I wanted the center exhaust.
In all honesty, if the higher model had the center exhaust, I would have done that regardless of concerns for my wife. I just think the center exhaust has a more classy look to it. When I took it on the track for the first time, I was shocked in a good way. I knew the car was heavy but it surprisingly doesn't "feel" heavy. I had seen all the articles and comments Jaguar made about how stiff the chassis was be it didn't mean anything until that moment. The OEM Pirelli's didn't do the car justice on the track so I eventually went with Kumho V720's. The car's nannies behave more like a race car than a grand touring car. They let me slide the car into corners and only hindered very slightly when accelerating out. The shifting can be turned fully manual so you can bounce the car off the rev limiter all you want. The only thing you cannot do is downshift when you want as there is downshift protection. I will say, it is overly protective as I know there are times when I can downshift without the car overrevving but it won't let me.
I took a friend for a ride at an event. I was working the event so I had only a little bit of time so I jumped into the Advanced group (which is better than me terrorizing newbies, which I have done). It started raining just before the session started, but we went out anyways. While it was slippery trying to find the track areas where rubber hadn't been built up, the car handled better than I thought it would. I will also say similar to sliding I mentioned above, even with the nannies not fully disabled, it would have let me wreck the car easily. While I definitely has more experience than most of the drivers out in that session, I lapped the group 3 times in 20 minutes. The car gave me the confidence to just go flat out once I found where to put the car in the corners for the rain.
On the street, if you are used to cushy sedans, it will be a firm ride. I actually find the suspension in dynamic mode is better damped and rides better than the cushy mode. The F-Type comes with a lot of theater in the cockpit. The rising A/C center vents always wows people. Just a great all around grand tourer.
The 4C is every bit of what @eslai posted above. The exhaust is loud, the intake is loud by default, you hear all of the road noise as there is no sound deadening. Aside from the lack of a manual, it has a majority of the characteristics of owning a mildly modified FD3S. You are literally sitting almost on the pavement when inside of the car. You get a good view of just about every vehicle's differential setup when driving behind them.
It's super wide (just about a half inch more narrow than the F-Type which itself is wide). It's almost as wide as it is long. The short wheel base makes it very darty. Most YouTube reviews complain that the car tramlines like no other. My FD tramlined quite a bit so it wasn't that big of a deal to me. A lot of that can be dialed out with suspension adjustments and/or adding suspension plates. IMO, you never get something for nothing so I would be concerned that trying to address that behavior will also have an affect on responsiveness. Some claim it doesn't but rarely is there get without a give.
On the track, the 4C takes a little bit to get used to... With a rear-mid engine car, there is some amount of throttle understeer. The rear will squat under power which brings the nose up but there is no motor in the front to help keep the nose down. Cars like the Audi R8 (and likely McLarens as well) have some anti-squat built into them to combat that where as the 4C is at a price point that it won't have mitigations for it. It can be improved with aftermarket suspension setups but I instead just find it as another trait to work around on the track. Similar to the F-Type, the OEM Pirelli's don't do the car justice on the track. I have yet to trade them out, but that is next on the list. However, unlike the F-Type, I will get a separate set of wheels for the track and leave the OEM Pirelli's on the stock wheels. I find the P-Zero's, for a summer tire, work well in cooler temperatures. The Kumho's on the F-Type sound like the tires are ripping apart if they are exposed to temperatures below 50F.
The 4C has great initial acceleration. The low weight, sitting more forward on the chassis, the short nose, and the engine just behind your head with no sound proofing really create a lot of theater that you are moving really fast in the car (even if you aren't). It does have good acceleration but the lower power will have it struggle on large tracks with lots of straights. In the end, power matters for propelling the car down a straight and it is noticeable on the track the lack of "umph" as Corvettes take off over the horizon. Thankfully, a basic ECU upgrade gives a more than handsome boost to the power. In stock form, it does not have adjustable dampening like the F-Type. However, the OEM has two offerings for their suspension setups: stiff and stiffer... My car does have the race suspension and I don't find it harsh at all. Granted, I am used to being in full race cars so my level of harshness is likely different than most. A lot of people find the ride too stiff as it's like a go-kart with a shell on it.
Brakes on both of the car performed better than I expected at the track. The F-Type is purely stock in that area where as the 4C, I did update a few things: SS brake lines, Motul fluid, and a more track focused brake pad. If you ever see a 4C in person, look at the size of the front calipers relative to the wheels and the rest of the car. They are larger than what I would expect for OEM.
All that being said, the 4C is not really the car you want to use to take your significant other out to dinner in. That would be the F-Type. However, when you have alone time on a windy road, that's where the 4C really shines. I actually attempted to buy the 4C when it was being launched. Due to the dealers, I ended up placing an order for the F-Type instead. I was lucky enough to be able to add a 4C a few years after that but that has probably also caused me to not get to work on fixing my S2000.
Mercedes-Benz is a giant company. I remember test driving a Mercedes C-Class years ago and found it thoroughly unimpressive, especially after I drove the E-Class in the same session.
when i was 16 or something, one of my dads friends took me for a ride in his Ferrari 512bb, and it was like that too, all these noises. ive still never been in another car quite like it. you could hear the valves ticking, and the timing chains. there was some electronic whine from somewhere, and then the carb noise, and the exhaust. at low speeds they all were quite distinct, but rev it up, and they all blended together and it just sounded great.
it was also the first car that i had been in where you had to look UP at the door handle of the honda next to you!
so um yeah Ferrari 512bb, its like a good looking Testarossa
having been exposed to both, I would still take the Testarossa over the 512bb. Way more aesthetically pleasing
Doesnt hurt to have the whole Miami Vice vibe too.
A Friend of mine recently bought a '95 S class with the V8. He has the window sticker. I think it was $90k back then (off the top of my head, this was a few months ago). Compare that to a $40k MSRP Rx-7 of the same year. Mercedes has gone way down market since the 90s. They're not built to last like the old ones were.
A Friend of mine recently bought a '95 S class with the V8. He has the window sticker. I think it was $90k back then (off the top of my head, this was a few months ago). Compare that to a $40k MSRP Rx-7 of the same year. Mercedes has gone way down market since the 90s. They're not built to last like the old ones were.
Not Mercedes, by my M5 with V10 with SMG had a sticker price of $92.5k, I bought it for $12k a few years ago. Values have slightly started to increase since.
Not comparable to an FD, but awesome car. Def not built to last though. Every time I go to drive it a new warning light comes on haha. But can't find 500hp V10 awesomeness for less.
A Friend of mine recently bought a '95 S class with the V8. He has the window sticker. I think it was $90k back then (off the top of my head, this was a few months ago). Compare that to a $40k MSRP Rx-7 of the same year. Mercedes has gone way down market since the 90s. They're not built to last like the old ones were.
and how much was this Benz now? $3500?
in 2009 or so my friend bought a 2003 BMW 750il for $3000, sticker was around $100k, it needed some work (they all do) and it basically ended up like new, but in 2010 it took ~6 months to sell, and i think it only brought $8k.
fastest depreciation i've ever seen (or the worst investment, take your pick, it went down as fast as Enron stock)
As a replacement for the RX-7, the lack of a stick is the only big problem I see, otherwise, look at all the ways it maps directly to our FDs:
1. Shitty stock stereo
2. Two-seater with no place to store a phone
3. Beautiful exterior design
4. Lightweight, turbocharged
5. Almost certain to be unreliable (lol actually the drivetrain and engine have been proven to be solid so far)
6. You never see them on the road
7. People stare at it all the time
8. The trunk is completely impractical
9. It would be challenging to have sex inside
A perfect match!
#9 is really where the FC was a clearly superior automobile ;-)
Oh boy, I shouldn't have seen this video. My sudden random urge to buy a 1999 corvette all thanks to good ole' Jay. Definitely wouldn't be a replacement to my FD at all, but wondering if any other FD owners have owned or driven a C5 before.
I couldn't agree more. Mercedes back in 1971 was a great, solid car. Extremely well built, quality car. I wouldn't own anything much past the 70's.
My wife’s 16 gle63s coupe is the 5th AMG we have owned. It is leaps and bounds nicer than my same year Macan Turbo with every option under the sun. The fit and finish of the Mercedes is nicer, it’s much faster and a little rowdy in Sport+ mode but very refined in comfort mode. I’m all around impressed with it. I was heavily considering an AMG GTS before prices skyrocketed 3-4 months back. Once I get bored with the Macan, which I already am, I’ll likely move to a GT63 AMG next. When it comes to the AMG models I think Mercedes is miles ahead of their competition. It’s surprising the power and comfort modern Mercedes have.
My wife’s 16 gle63s coupe is the 5th AMG we have owned. It is leaps and bounds nicer than my same year Macan Turbo with every option under the sun. The fit and finish of the Mercedes is nicer, it’s much faster and a little rowdy in Sport+ mode but very refined in comfort mode. I’m all around impressed with it. I was heavily considering an AMG GTS before prices skyrocketed 3-4 months back. Once I get bored with the Macan, which I already am, I’ll likely move to a GT63 AMG next. When it comes to the AMG models I think Mercedes is miles ahead of their competition. It’s surprising the power and comfort modern Mercedes have.
I have absolutely no idea how you’re able to drive around anything that big and modern and still be able to jump into an FD.
Jumping into my folks GLC occasionally is enough to drive me absolutely nuts. I was annoyed when they started with the GLK’s. At least in those models they weren’t so heavily computerized as the GLC’s are. Now it’s absolutely ridiculous. I basically have to go thru a pre flight checklist before I can even attempt to drive that thing. I couldn’t handle that thing on a daily bases. Big, can’t really maneuver quickly, difficult to park and always at the mercy of the computers.
I’m approaching the 1/2 century mark and I already know I will never own a Mercedes.
Im pretty sure I’ll remain with my sports cars till the end of days. I might own an ev in another 4-5yrs, but I would seriously consider restoring the RX8. Knowing all these modern vehicles are constantly connected to the mothership is very unsettling to me. Analogue for the win!
I'm referring to size, dimensions, handling, styling, etc.. Sure, it would be great if the MK5 had a manual option. However, there is a reason that all of the current professional GT race cars are not manual.
