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the Mx5 might only be 184hp, but it runs about the same 0-60 and quarter mile times as a stock FD, the ND2 is 14.4 at about 95mph. the drivetrain has really low losses, the ND1 was rated at 150hp at the crank and they dyno 147hp...
i mean its not fast like the other junk we're talking about, but its not as slow as you would think.
PS the MX5 cup cars run about 1:39's at Laguna, which is faster than the 60's Trans Am cars, the 60's Lemans cars (gt40's, 917's etc), and how funny would that look in real life?
Trust me when I say, I know where you're coming from. I had an NC PRHT for 10yrs. I fiddled with it within reason and was making about 190 at the wheels. It was still nowhere near as fast or as competent as the RX8. As much as I wanted the engine to behave in such a way, it wasn't really meant to rev all that freely. It struggled to get up to redline. The ND is very much the same way. The 4 cylinder is just enough to cruise around in and not really thrash it. It's willingless to rev is very unsportscar like.
Can't really compare the Cup cars to normal street cars since even gutted and fitted with all the proper safety equipment, it's significantly lighter and more rigid than a street version Miata. Since it loses even more weight, the engines ability to haul you around increases 10 fold.
Again, don't get me wrong. I do love the Miata. But can't really compare it to the FD. Even if the FD was stock.
Before I picked up the Rx8, I was seriously considering moving into an ND. I was patiently waiting for the RF version to come out. Once it did, I spec'ed it out, and the price was stupid high for a Miata. It went up 10G'scdn more than what my NC went for when I picked her up new. That wasn't going to happen.
Luckily everyone out there is super scared of the RX8. The prices on such a hidden gem are crazy cheap. I made sure though to avoid all the series 1 models. They fixed a slew of things for series 2. Slightly more if you could find an R3. Luckily for me, the RX8 R3 of choice appeared and I pounced on it.
That's about it. Nothing currently in the sweet spot of power, weight, size that the FD has... let alone the looks, driving experience, and exclusivity.
A Singer type remanufactured/reissued Rx7 would be about perfection.
Trust me when I say, I know where you're coming from. I had an NC PRHT for 10yrs. I fiddled with it within reason and was making about 190 at the wheels. It was still nowhere near as fast or as competent as the RX8. As much as I wanted the engine to behave in such a way, it wasn't really meant to rev all that freely. It struggled to get up to redline. The ND is very much the same way. The 4 cylinder is just enough to cruise around in and not really thrash it. It's willingless to rev is very unsportscar like.
Can't really compare the Cup cars to normal street cars since even gutted and fitted with all the proper safety equipment, it's significantly lighter and more rigid than a street version Miata. Since it loses even more weight, the engines ability to haul you around increases 10 fold.
Again, don't get me wrong. I do love the Miata. But can't really compare it to the FD. Even if the FD was stock.
Before I picked up the Rx8, I was seriously considering moving into an ND. I was patiently waiting for the RF version to come out. Once it did, I spec'ed it out, and the price was stupid high for a Miata. It went up 10G'scdn more than what my NC went for when I picked her up new. That wasn't going to happen.
Luckily everyone out there is super scared of the RX8. The prices on such a hidden gem are crazy cheap. I made sure though to avoid all the series 1 models. They fixed a slew of things for series 2. Slightly more if you could find an R3. Luckily for me, the RX8 R3 of choice appeared and I pounced on it.
Interesting you found the ND uneager to rev. It is no rotary, but the one I drove was very responsive for heal toe action. Really a remarkable engine as far as performance to fuel economy goes.
The R3 is an awesome car. A friend of mine summed it up really well, by saying that the R3 is the Rx-8 for serious people who know they want an Rx-8. For that reason it will always hold its value over the others and for its rarity. Me personally, with as cheap as the touring models are going, would buy a touring and put the R3 exterior goodies on it with some upgraded shocks and sway bars. I cannot stand the R3 seats and enjoy a sunroof in a sports car.
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately the signs of the times have forced any sort of "affordable lightweight sports car" to be non-existent. As you mentioned, the 4C has proper power but has a ridiculous gearbox. Not to mention its price tag is well above "affordable".
But nobody offers a carbon-tubbed car for anywhere near that price ($60, base).
Just looked up the weight and the U.S. cars, for some odd reason, are 300 lbs higher than ROW. At the 2300 "dry" weight it's eerily similar to MX-5.
Interesting you found the ND uneager to rev. It is no rotary, but the one I drove was very responsive for heal toe action. Really a remarkable engine as far as performance to fuel economy goes.
The R3 is an awesome car. A friend of mine summed it up really well, by saying that the R3 is the Rx-8 for serious people who know they want an Rx-8. For that reason it will always hold its value over the others and for its rarity. Me personally, with as cheap as the touring models are going, would buy a touring and put the R3 exterior goodies on it with some upgraded shocks and sway bars. I cannot stand the R3 seats and enjoy a sunroof in a sports car.
I find alot of piston vehicles for the street lack a certain degree of revability once you've been used to a rotary engine. About the only ones that do are typically the Italian exotics.
The ND revs alright for what it is. As you mentioned, it's no rotary.
That's unfortunate you find the Recaro's in the R3 intolerable. They're perfect for me. I'm actually against all the power stuff that comes in the normal touring models. Power and heated seats, sunroof, etc...
I guess I want my vehicles to be very serious..
But nobody offers a carbon-tubbed car for anywhere near that price ($60, base).
Just looked up the weight and the U.S. cars, for some odd reason, are 300 lbs higher than ROW. At the 2300 "dry" weight it's eerily similar to MX-5.
F8 Tributo is really a true 3100 lbs?
The Euro cars always come lighter because they come with optional stuff. Such as the seats. Not to mention less "safety equipment".
F8 is truly about 3200lbs with about 1/2 a tank of fuel and all other necessary liquids. I can imagine when its special edition comes out, it'll weigh about 80-100lbs lighter.
FYI if anyone is looking for a nice driver RX-8 that needs some work but has a clean interior and straight body I looked at one this weekend in Murfreesboro with my best friend (he's thinking about getting an 8 but the finances/wife didn't work out). Dude is asking $5500 but I think $4k would be a fair offer. PM me for details.
really quick here are the pros and cons of the Rx8, it has some really excellent features, but also a few flaws
the Flaws.
1. the dashboard is a HUGE piece of black plastic, and the HVAC system is small, so if the dash is hot you're hot, if the dash is cold you're cold. window tint helps
2. the back seats hold real full size humans, comfortably. the door arrangement also makes it perfect for your stuff. however if you're back there and need to throw up, the window doesn't open, and the only thing is the rotor shaped hole in the front seat....
3. they don't really mod the way an FD does, its pretty optimized right out of the box.
4. most cars got the prescribed servicing, but its not enough.
the good stuff
1. the interior plastic is good, and its designed to come apart, so you can have the interior in the sink to scrub off the human slime in ~20 minutes
2. these things have a bad reputation (which is why its cheap), and there are a ton of warning lights (compared to an FD) it can be an adventure to get them all off, but once they get off they stay off
3. there were a LOT of updates to these cars (especially the early ones), so one should check to make sure they were done, and if not do them. engine mounts, starter, etc. (feel free to PM me the last 6 of the vin)
i had three of them, there was a point where the car was worth ~10k and the engine was $1800 (sometimes even under warranty)... even though i went out of my way, i never had to do an engine. i did a clutch, radiator, 6 coils, 3x major services, 3x put the interior in the sink and scrub it, a couple sets of Bose relays, the Nav screen, a seat heater, and a headlight ballast, and a ton of clips. these things are held together with plastic clips, and at some point the car is just leaving a trail of them....
Speaking of the Ferrari F8, I had dinner with Leonardo Fioravanti in 2009 and he sent me some pictures and drawings over the years. Although he no longer worked for Pininfarina, I think they may have bought some of his services as a contractor, given how closely these 2010 drawings and actual rebodied 430 resemble the F8.
you might want to consider the global push to end automobile ICE use
which once they get the semi-truck industry autonomized and going the interstates will be so full that anyone in a car will likely be buried and unable to get around them, let alone find any open stretches of road. They’re getting ready to start rolling it out here in Texas and I’m a bit anxious about what it will end up resulting in on multiple levels.
I towed to Atlanta from DFW and back earlier this year, which is the first significant road trip I had made in several years, and the semi truck density that exists now as compared to then sort of blew me away. It would be a lot worse if it weren’t for a significant driver shortage.
Given the recent trends, the beginning of the end is accelerating at us a bit faster than most people seem to be aware of imo. So you might want to ponder that some and what it may mean in the future compared to what past, but possibly incompatible, experience might lead you to do.
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I daily my 08 anniversary RX8, I was able to get it from the original owner some years ago with stupid low mileage. I retrofitted carplay/android auto into the spot where the factory navigation would have been and had the steering wheel tweaked by a place I always use for steering wheel work.
Honestly if Mazda had used slightly higher quality leather for the seats, I doubt most people could tell the car is as old as it is. Even with that, most people are pretty surprised when I tell them its a 2008 (obviously these aren't car people I'm talking about here)
I like the 8. Its comfortable to drive in and its got all the modern fixings that I care about, including a pretty decent safety/airbag system. The AC is kind of marginal in really hot/humid weather but thats just par for the course with my experience with any small Mazda sports car. You're not going to mod more power to the engine easily, but I've never felt like the car really needs it. I've often toyed with the idea of grabbing one of those electric turbos that the 86/BRZ crowd has had positive experiences with to get a bit more low speed oomph, but otherwise the car is stupid fun to drive.
That said, at 13 years old my 8 is hardly a "modern car" in reality. If I had to replace it today I'd be looking at the Abarth version of the Fiata, a RF ND or PRHT NC Miata, or perhaps the new Supra. When I have driven any of those it has always been a stupid good time. The 86 is really fun on a track too and there is an updated model coming down the pipeline, but the current model just doesn't do it for me as a daily for whatever reason.
I think I caught the superbug: I'm looking at the 2013 Audi TT RS as a daily driver... it's no Cayman, but it seems to have the right balance of features and performance for me.
"Even a trained monkey can win in a quattro.”
— Walter Röhrl
How about an untrained monkey? It's relatively lightweight, all-wheel drive and stick shift... rated for 18/20/25 mpg but online discussion indicates 30-40 mpg is possible on the highway.
It has real dials with none of that "virtual cockpit" nonsense that came in the 2016 Audi TT.
I think I caught the superbug: I'm looking at the 2013 Audi TT RS as a daily driver... it's no Cayman, but it seems to have the right balance of features and performance for me.
"Even a trained monkey can win in a quattro.”
— Walter Röhrl
How about an untrained monkey? It's relatively lightweight, all-wheel drive and stick shift... rated for 18/20/25 mpg but online discussion indicates 30-40 mpg is possible on the highway.
It has real dials with none of that "virtual cockpit" nonsense that came in the 2016 Audi TT.
I've toyed with the idea of a Singer-type build RX-7 several years ago. Build on what Mazda did without upsetting the balance: 400hp efr, modern suspension, a real interior with creature comforts, and a way to pass emissions. We already do most of these things with our builds but the interior would be key. I'd build it if there was the market.
Are group buys as much hassle as they look to manage? There are so many half-abandoned group buy threads on this forum alone...
My base '93 interior is actually holding up ok (unless the broken parts were already replaced). I think the previous owners were extremely meticulous, despite racing the car for years.
I've toyed with the idea of a Singer-type build RX-7 several years ago. Build on what Mazda did without upsetting the balance: 400hp efr, modern suspension, a real interior with creature comforts, and a way to pass emissions. We already do most of these things with our builds but the interior would be key. I'd build it if there was the market.
I think you just need to build one to determine if there is a market/create the market. Now is a window to do it. A few more years go buy and there will be fewer people with the dream of owning their childhood favorite Rx7 and more and more will be into performance electric cars. And more parts are becoming obsolete. The market is small to start with, but it's not like singer is high volume. I bet if you crushed it on the first one, you could repeat 10 to 20 times.
I think you just need to build one to determine if there is a market/create the market. Now is a window to do it. A few more years go buy and there will be fewer people with the dream of owning their childhood favorite Rx7 and more and more will be into performance electric cars. And more parts are becoming obsolete. The market is small to start with, but it's not like singer is high volume. I bet if you crushed it on the first one, you could repeat 10 to 20 times.
High volume was never my goal, just so happened to work out that way. This would be a small run if anything. A modern interior would be the biggest challenge to design/produce. Perhaps it is something I will revisit in the near future.
Fit might be a challenge... if external body kits need a bit of adjustment/trimming, our interior dimensions have probably varied over the course of 30 years.
It sounds like something you'd need to either laser measure or bring the cars into the shop to do.
Fellow up here redid his entire interior ( I mean everything) in CF (overlay). I'd be interested if this has the effect of stiffening up the fragile plastics. That plus generous anti-squeak and other noise cancellation padding, might create what we are after..
Hopefully , when Covid is contained, we will be able to check out his car more closely.
06-09-21, 09:55 AM
