airborne

whaddya think? both are (sorta) accomplishing the same thing. just in different areas with different methods. i know there are only a few FDs running water injection but it seems to be a legit method of cooling for the fd.

aquamist kit is $800ish vs say $1500 for an m2 ic.

looking forward to next mods and pondering one or the other. any thoughts out there?

Brentis

was reading on fds3.net someone saying they had a group buy a while ago for $360..... Also said that Aquamist system would let a SAAB system with a stock IC run from 14psi to 21psi before the knock sensor kicked in. Said they used a combination of methanol & water....

Keep us posted with what u do.

BoostCrzy

water injection will yield the greatest temperature drop when used properly....plus think of all that space you can save..!!...also...how about a small nitrous shot....that can lower intake temps like you wouldnt believe!! plus its a little less complicated...

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

I am currently putting water injection in my FD, it is a combination of the Spearco kit and the one desscribed here http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
The Spearco comes with a crappy pump, no relay, and no solenoid in the water line. basically I am just using the tank, the pressure sensor, and the spray nozzle from Spearco. Total my cost will be about $200.

I figure the performance of a $1200 intercooler is not 6x better than my $200 water injection will be. Maybe eventually I will get an intercooler but not for now.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

There are actually a few different kits with the least expensive (the 1s) being in the $400 range (short of any group buy). This kit operates off of boost pressure - so basically you set it to come on at a certain pressure. This is the kit I have.

The other two are a mappable system and one that can connect to a ECU that has outputs, like the Haltech. While the 1s lacks the flexibility of the other two kits, it's fine for street apps and basic racing use.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp.html

Mine is simply for an anti-detonation device, and will not tune around it.

airborne

Thats kinda what i would use it for. I'm happy with 12lbs...for now. Plus wouldn't you still see some performance gains due to lower charge temps?

So the 1s just comes on at one pressure when boost is >x?

Did ya do the install yourself? I'm pretty sure there is someone running around the forum with the 2s. Caught it in a search i did a while ago...

thanks for the input too!

dclin

iTrader: (4)

I imagine there would be some performance benefit, though not sure how much.

Yes operation is based on boost (for the 1s) , so - for example - if you're max target boost is 15 psi, you can set the system to come on at 10psi. There are also different 'injection' noozles available to adjust the amount injected.

Mine is till sitting in the box hehe. Probably one of the last things that goes on, still have a few misc parts needed before I go in for tuning.

Either RonKMiller or Luv94RX7 (Ken) has the spendier kit, if I'm not mistaken. They'll no doubt post shortly.

Daniel

Brentis

I think it is more important to keep your IC at a particular temp rather than activating when the boost hits a particular level. It would seem that the latter approach would at least inject the "initial blast" of high boost air into the engine before the water cooling system ever had a chance to react....

Incase you haven't seen this before it is worth checking out. (intelligent IC spray) http://www.autospeed.com/A_0589/page...rc=suggestions

Summit racing also has a temp relay that can be rigged for cheaper.

Stevil

Its been said, I think by Corky Bell(who I guess some dont like his ideas) that an IC is much more valuable than water/alcohol injection.
I think an IC should be before injection and as stated above, I think the aqaumist is just extra protection. I have the aquamist 1s system installed, coming on at 10 PSI(this is adjustable) with the .6mm nozzle in right now. it is fairly easy to hook up. Just need to find a place for the pump in the crowded FD.
My last dyno, I dynoed 2 runs w/o water injection and then 3 runs w/ it. I was going to change out nozzles and do runs that way, but after my initial findings, decided not to waste my time.
The runs were nearly identical. I gained maybe a couple of horses and pounds of torque w/ water injection(and this could be related to other facrtors). Of course my A/F in all runs was off the chart below 10, so maybe the water injection made more of a difference than perceived. Once I dial my A/F to leaner levels, maybe I will see a difference, will keep everyone updated.
So, basically WI is just a safety feature for me. If anyone needs help installing, just ask.

Steve

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Not that anybody does not like his ideas, he just does not provide any reasoning for his rational. He just says its a 'band-aid' solution and to not do it. I'll go dig up my Corky Bell book and quote the full two sentences in his water injection section later.

Daniel

dclin

iTrader: (4)

You're right though - if the WI kit is meant for performance purposes, using it in conjuction with a good IC is ideal. I don't see WI as a substitute for a good IC either, in this case.

Daniel

Stevil

Ya, thats what he said. I think the way we use it, for extra protection on top of IC, is ok. Tho, from what I have read on the topic, one could probably tune a good tune w/ WI(tho a more advanced model, like 2s, would be needed).

Book is a good read. Still teaches one alot about turbos. Corky Bell knows alot more than most people on the topic.

KevinK2

Stock IC still has too much pressure drop at 12 psi (scc measured about 2.6 psi). with WI, mabe get used freer flowing smic ... Greddy, Blitz, SR, etc.

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

We arent talking about spraying water on the intercooler. Water injection sprays water into the intake. The moisture in the intake charge prevents detonation, that is why I am doing it. I dont expect to see much of a performance gain.

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

Rice Racing from Australia uses water injection on his 600+hp car. He says the reason he has not detonated yet at high boost the last 3 years was because of proper tuning and water injection.

I did a run last night in 3rd gear at WOT to 100+mph. Peak temp after the turbo was 253F measured by Omega air temp probes and gauge. Maximum air intake temp was 93F measured by Commander. Peak boost was 15psi measured by Commander. It was about 35F outside. Water was responsible for 40F cut in intake temps measured by the Omega probes. For every 10F you cut air intake temp that should be worth 1-2% power gain.
So the way I see it the IC cut it 120F and the water cut it 40F.
I have the 2s kit and it kicks in at 7psi and 3k rpms. Volume of water injected increases as boost and rpms increase. I use the 5mm nozzle size and I go through a lot of water. I have a 3-gallon fuel cell in the back for the water.

I was running 100 octane as I plan a few runs at 20psi. The last web site below has pics of the fuel cell, Aquamist install and my air temp probes.

Ken, 58 years young
'94 white, pep, red leather,
mods: Hayes/KDR street port & polished,
3mm Hurley racing seals,
upgraded coolant seals,
Power FC ecu, Commander, Datalogit,
XS T04e single turbo kit,
GReddy SMIC (400+cu.in.),
Aquamist 2s water injection kit,
Pettit ss resonated MP,
Pettit ss cat-back,
RP Racing fuel pump,
1600cc injectors,
Profec B(15&21psi),
3-Bar Map Sensor,
Centerforce clutch,
Racelogic Traction Control,
Under pulley kit (no air pump),
Pettit short shifter kit,
LaBreck's bushings,
Evans Coolant
http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html
http://flathat.woodstream.net/LUV94RX7/

Stevil

With my setup, I go thru very little water. I just use the windshield washer resovoir. Works great. I have the pump directly below that and close to battery. Then I have the injector in the IC tube, directly after IC.

Steve

BoostCrzy

the purpose of water injection isnt to gain power...it is to ward off detonation....thus yielding the ability to increase boost by lowering the combustion temps... THIS is where the power gains come in....

SPOautos

well one thing is the stock IC and piping is too restrictive its a huge bottle neck, if you really want to make power then you need to change it out.

To go with a water injection only and not have the IC bottle neck you I guess you could totally remove the IC and just water inj only but then you'd need to run more waterinjection and I'm not so sure how reliable it would be to use as your only source of charge cooling.

STEPHEN

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Some people use WI to allow them to advance timing, there by increasing power.

My only problem with that though, is that you have to pay attention to the level of the fluid, least it run out. There are ways to address this, though, whether thru turning down boost automatically or triggering a different map.

All this requires corresponding electronics that are 'smart enough' to do so of course. A bit a of creativity and ingenuity is all that is needed.

For me though, I'm not looking for every last possible hp gain, and am more interested in preserving my engine for as long as possible.

Daniel

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

I am doing it to save my motor from detonation. The extra cooling and cleaning the combustion chamber are just side benefits. Kinda why I added traction control, I don't want to go out of control and kill myself. That was the best feature I added. The 2s kit has a light and if it goes on you are out of water or a clogged injector or something is amiss.

Ken

RX7Elmo

just to add..water injection does WONDERS for carbon deposits

Danny

DavidV

Water injection would do wonders for rotaries like the FD as they inherently run so hot and are sensitive to detonation.

I posted a thread on the MR2 board about water injection recently. Thought some of you here might find the information useful as well:

Here

-- DavidV

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

That MR2 thread was great and the links there were good also. Very informative discussion on WI.

Ken

DavidV

Thanks, Ken.

You guys can feel free to contact me directly with any questions or ordering inquiries.

-- DavidV

rallimike

iTrader: (1)

Ken
Where did you buy your unit, and did you get good help with the technical issues?
DavidV
If the primary benefit is detonation control, would you turn the unit off if you were running 100 octane? Or, could a different setting be used to cool the charge? Or, don't I understand this properly?