Common effects of bad "pills" or lose vacuum lines?
08-26-01, 02:06 AM
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Common effects of bad "pills" or lose vacuum lines?
Still tryin to pinpoint my boost problem of 11-8-13.....so I have a few questions.....
I found a vacuum line that wasn't attached. It was one of the 2 lines that are right next to the stock crossover pipe for the intercooler. They both go into a hard plastic box.....not sure what they're for, but spooling response was better and the 2nd turbo comes on line much quicker. So, I was wondering if a loose vaccum line could cause a boost problem such as mine?
Another question.....how about the stock "pills"? Would these be a possible culprit, and if so, how and where do I find them?
Some owners have told me they got new "pills" with their downpipes.....out of coincidence, ever since I installed my DP and high-flow, the transition between turbo's is really weak....hmmm?
One more question.....sometimes my primary turbo gets higher boost on taller gears, like 12psi in 4th gear as oppossed to 11psi in 1st gear.......maybe my boost guage is just off(it's a cheapy)...
I found a vacuum line that wasn't attached. It was one of the 2 lines that are right next to the stock crossover pipe for the intercooler. They both go into a hard plastic box.....not sure what they're for, but spooling response was better and the 2nd turbo comes on line much quicker. So, I was wondering if a loose vaccum line could cause a boost problem such as mine?
Another question.....how about the stock "pills"? Would these be a possible culprit, and if so, how and where do I find them?
Some owners have told me they got new "pills" with their downpipes.....out of coincidence, ever since I installed my DP and high-flow, the transition between turbo's is really weak....hmmm?
One more question.....sometimes my primary turbo gets higher boost on taller gears, like 12psi in 4th gear as oppossed to 11psi in 1st gear.......maybe my boost guage is just off(it's a cheapy)...
08-26-01, 02:40 AM
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YESSSSS! That is the line that fills your presure chamber that will move the turbo control actuator. Good for you.
I'm glad you found it.
Tie wrap that sucker.
Don't worry about the pills
Yes, your DP is why you are seeing higher boost.
I'm glad you found it.
Tie wrap that sucker.
Don't worry about the pills
Yes, your DP is why you are seeing higher boost.
08-26-01, 03:37 AM
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Yeah....I did tie that vacuum line down...an it made a noticable difference......but this boost pattern is still stumping me....
How about the actuator door staying closed...?
I mean, what all is involved throught the transition, because that's where I think I'll find my problem.....are there vacuum lines that are strictly used through the transition? Maybe they are loose?
Oops....my bad.....I should've specified....with my M2 ECU I should be 13-13-13 boost pattern.....so as you can see my primary and transition are low 11-8-13 but the secondary is perfect...
So how about those "pills" now?
How about the actuator door staying closed...?
I mean, what all is involved throught the transition, because that's where I think I'll find my problem.....are there vacuum lines that are strictly used through the transition? Maybe they are loose?
Oops....my bad.....I should've specified....with my M2 ECU I should be 13-13-13 boost pattern.....so as you can see my primary and transition are low 11-8-13 but the secondary is perfect...
So how about those "pills" now?
Last edited by Pressurized; 08-26-01 at 03:44 AM.
08-26-01, 04:41 AM
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Ok, so you are stuck on the pills.
The pills work like this:
The primary pill, located between the primary turbo's dual spigot and the wastegate actuator.
If you notice, there is a second hose coming off the wastegate actuator. This hose goes directly to the duty controlled solenoid that is located in on the upper intake manifold. It is the one on the right when facing the engine.
The solenoid opens and shuts quickly according to the ECU.
When it opens it lets out pressurized air that is pressurized by the primary turbo based on a cycle or interval of time.
The pill is a restriction on how much pressurized air is allowed to flow into the wastegate diaphragm over a given amount of time.
The computer assumes that the pill is there and that it is a set size. Late model 7s actually have the pill integral to the spigot.
The more pressure in the actuator the more it will slow down the turbo.
Since the computer is set doing what it wants to do with letting air out to slow the compressor, you can change the amount of boost made by regulating the amount of pressure allowed in to the actuator over time.
Make a bigger hole and the more it will enter the actuator and make less boost.
. Make it smaller and the more you can restrict and get more boost.
A likely scenario in your case is that the actuator pill is larger, or that it is bypassing air around it from a worn hose.
It could also be that you have a wategate door that is not optimally aligned.
The pills work like this:
The primary pill, located between the primary turbo's dual spigot and the wastegate actuator.
If you notice, there is a second hose coming off the wastegate actuator. This hose goes directly to the duty controlled solenoid that is located in on the upper intake manifold. It is the one on the right when facing the engine.
The solenoid opens and shuts quickly according to the ECU.
When it opens it lets out pressurized air that is pressurized by the primary turbo based on a cycle or interval of time.
The pill is a restriction on how much pressurized air is allowed to flow into the wastegate diaphragm over a given amount of time.
The computer assumes that the pill is there and that it is a set size. Late model 7s actually have the pill integral to the spigot.
The more pressure in the actuator the more it will slow down the turbo.
Since the computer is set doing what it wants to do with letting air out to slow the compressor, you can change the amount of boost made by regulating the amount of pressure allowed in to the actuator over time.
Make a bigger hole and the more it will enter the actuator and make less boost.
. Make it smaller and the more you can restrict and get more boost.
A likely scenario in your case is that the actuator pill is larger, or that it is bypassing air around it from a worn hose.
It could also be that you have a wategate door that is not optimally aligned.
08-26-01, 04:56 AM
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I still think that the boost loss is directly from your FMIC.
Can anyone confirm that a M2 ECU programed for stock IC will product 13PSI on primary in 1st gear?
Can anyone confirm that a M2 ECU programed for stock IC will product 13PSI on primary in 1st gear?
08-26-01, 01:10 PM
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I had just a CB when I got my M2 ECU, so with the stock IC I always saw 13psi.....but then I got a tear in one of the hoses and I haven't been able to normalize it since, even after upgrading to the FMIC with aluminum hoses......
08-26-01, 01:27 PM
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Pressurized, you would think that with a name like that you would understand the concept of volume and time.
Think of your turbos as being your mouth (lungs included).
Your mouth can produce somewhere around 1-2 psi and can quickly inflate a balloon (Stock IC) with in a matter of seconds, or a couple breaths.
Your mouth can also inflate a rubber raft (FMIC) to the same PSI as the balloon as well, but it will take you 100 times longer to do it.
Does this make sense?
your M2 ECU is programed to make 13 PSI in near stock trim. It thinks that it is blowing up a balloon not a raft.
Note: Like the engine, both the balloon and the raft have a pretty good size hole in them. So you will be working to fill an area that is constantly deflating.
If you could make the primary turbo last longer than 4500 in first then you would most likely see a rise in boost. Try it in 4th and see what boost you see.
Think of your turbos as being your mouth (lungs included).
Your mouth can produce somewhere around 1-2 psi and can quickly inflate a balloon (Stock IC) with in a matter of seconds, or a couple breaths.
Your mouth can also inflate a rubber raft (FMIC) to the same PSI as the balloon as well, but it will take you 100 times longer to do it.
Does this make sense?
your M2 ECU is programed to make 13 PSI in near stock trim. It thinks that it is blowing up a balloon not a raft.
Note: Like the engine, both the balloon and the raft have a pretty good size hole in them. So you will be working to fill an area that is constantly deflating.
If you could make the primary turbo last longer than 4500 in first then you would most likely see a rise in boost. Try it in 4th and see what boost you see.
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08-26-01, 01:51 PM
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HAHAHAHA....nice anologies
Yeah, I do understand this, but what I don't understand is how it could be such a tremendous drop in pressure especially though the transition, I mean we're talking 5psi...
I'm not too enthusiastic about getting my primary turbo back to 13psi, I can't keep the tires on the car as it is......it's just when I shift at high revs and drop to the transition......it sucks!
And yes I did a test at 4th gear.......12-8-13.....I'm I still smoking crack? Or is my FMIC my possible fault?
BTW, thanks for explaining some of this stuff, I'm learning an awful lot......
Yeah, I do understand this, but what I don't understand is how it could be such a tremendous drop in pressure especially though the transition, I mean we're talking 5psi...
I'm not too enthusiastic about getting my primary turbo back to 13psi, I can't keep the tires on the car as it is......it's just when I shift at high revs and drop to the transition......it sucks!
And yes I did a test at 4th gear.......12-8-13.....I'm I still smoking crack? Or is my FMIC my possible fault?
BTW, thanks for explaining some of this stuff, I'm learning an awful lot......
08-26-01, 01:56 PM
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My thinking is yes, your FMIC is the problem. Call M2 on monday and tell them that you have a remapped ECU from them that was set up to produce 13PSI with a near stock car (Don't forget to tell them that it was a stock IC). Ask them if the boost map will still maintain 13psi accross the board with a 5 times larger intercooler and piping.
My guess is that they will say no, you would see a major boost drop in the primary and transition point. Let us remap it again, or put in a manual boost controller.
My guess is that they will say no, you would see a major boost drop in the primary and transition point. Let us remap it again, or put in a manual boost controller.
08-26-01, 02:08 PM
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Hmmm.....yeah I should call them. It's a Stage 3 chip and when they sell the Stage 3 package it includes their medium mount intercooler......so I assumed they pogrammed it with that in mind. When I ordered it they asked me what all I was planning to do, I said everything so they sent me a "Stage 3" computer.....
But since I can't do that 'til tomorrow, let's just say for instance it isn't the FMIC........what would be you best guess to look at?
There's no harm in looking around anyway, might save myself a phonecall.......plus it will give me something to do today.
You're probably right about the pressure loss across the intercooler but I'm bored, so give me your best diagnosis.......
But since I can't do that 'til tomorrow, let's just say for instance it isn't the FMIC........what would be you best guess to look at?
There's no harm in looking around anyway, might save myself a phonecall.......plus it will give me something to do today.
You're probably right about the pressure loss across the intercooler but I'm bored, so give me your best diagnosis.......
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