Yet another emissions question thread (huge post)..
07-20-08, 10:35 AM
#26
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I'm short on time today, but let me tell you how the cow chews the cabbage when it comes to TPS settings. There is a reason I asked you to set the TPS at an output of ONE VOLT DC.
When it is set right, it will cause the ECU to send a ground signal to the Relief solenoid to energize it. Energizing it will cause vacuum to flow thru it to the other side of the engine where the ACV is. So if the TPS isn't set right, it ain't a gonna have the ECU send that gnd signal to the relief solenoid and that sucker ain't a gonna send vacuum to the other side of the engine.
The Switching is just the opposite. TPS set right results in NO gnd signal to the Switching solenoid. Because that solenoid is configured differently than the Relief solenoid, vacuum WILL flow thru that solenoid to the other side of the engine above the ACV.
Then again, someone might just have all the vacuum hose kinda screwed up where they are of no use to anybody.
These solenoids can be figured out by looking in the Fuel and Emissions section of the FSM. And DUH! I thought there were two different solenoids til Icemark told me that the filters just pull off manually.
When it is set right, it will cause the ECU to send a ground signal to the Relief solenoid to energize it. Energizing it will cause vacuum to flow thru it to the other side of the engine where the ACV is. So if the TPS isn't set right, it ain't a gonna have the ECU send that gnd signal to the relief solenoid and that sucker ain't a gonna send vacuum to the other side of the engine.
The Switching is just the opposite. TPS set right results in NO gnd signal to the Switching solenoid. Because that solenoid is configured differently than the Relief solenoid, vacuum WILL flow thru that solenoid to the other side of the engine above the ACV.
Then again, someone might just have all the vacuum hose kinda screwed up where they are of no use to anybody.
These solenoids can be figured out by looking in the Fuel and Emissions section of the FSM. And DUH! I thought there were two different solenoids til Icemark told me that the filters just pull off manually.
07-20-08, 03:33 PM
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So, there are several ways to play this. You have only one hose that has vacuum on it above the ACV. So idle the engine, then go to the solenoids and pull the OUTPUT hose of each one at a time. When the vacuum disappears from the only hose above the ACV , then you've found the source of THAT vacuum... ....You also could check the vacuum in hose on each to see if each has vacuum coming into the solenoids.
Switching Solenoid has both input and output.
Relief Solenoid has input but no output.
I forget which hose has vacuum on your car. The rear hose goes to the Relief solenoid and the front hose to the Switching solenoid. That is the way it SHOULD be. But you can see those two hose can be swapped real easy. That swap would not explain why BOTH hose don't have vacuum.
Since only the Switching Solenoid is pulling vacuum at the moment I corrected it so that it was ran to the front and the Relief Solenoid is now connected to the rear.
IF you have a digital meter, put it's negative lead on a known ground. Then with a fully HOT engine, back probe the GREEN/RED wire of the TPS connector. The half of the TPS connector that is a part of the EM harness, NOT the half going directly to the TPS. It should read approx one volt dc. If not, screw the screw til it does read one volt dc. NO connectors are to be apart when you do this and the engine MUST be fully warmed up.
All those solenoids are the same item. BUT some are configured differently by moving the round filter to one solenoid nipple to the other nipple. When you look at a Relief and then a Switching solenoid, the FILTERS should be in a different location on each.
The Relief has it's filter under the BLUE electrical plug. The switching has its filter on the inboard side of the solenoid. Maybe someone has put the electrical plugs on the wrong solenoids or has installed the wrong solenoid in the wrong place? Never can tell til you look.
The Relief has it's filter under the BLUE electrical plug. The switching has its filter on the inboard side of the solenoid. Maybe someone has put the electrical plugs on the wrong solenoids or has installed the wrong solenoid in the wrong place? Never can tell til you look.
From front to back:
Blue Yellow Gray Orange
I did not check the filters since I felt input vacuum going to both solenoids, although I may have misunderstood what I was checking for here.
The blue doesn't sound like it is clicking nor do I feel a physical click when I disconnected / reconnected several times while it was running.
However I did feel and hear the clicking after I shut the car off and had the key in the run position while the car was still hot.
Idle was at 1000rpm. I shut the car off, jumped the plug, restarted car and when I tried to set the idle to 750 it would idle roughly so I just set it back up to 900 and left it alone for the time being and removed the jumper. I had to turn the screw in until it was almost 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn from being all the way in before it would bring the rpm close to 750. I still have the variable resistor unplugged also.
07-20-08, 04:58 PM
#28
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We'll let the idle speed go for now. Below a grand should be ok.
There's something obviously wrong with the Relief solenoid when the engine is idling. With a TPS output of one volt to the ECU, the ECU should be putting a gnd on the Relief solenoid, which opens it and lets vacuum travel over to the other side of the engine. Ain't a happening though.
Go look at that Relief solenoid and verify that its filter is below the electrical plug.
You know I attached a jpg of the Relief solenoid and pointed to VACUUM OUT or some such words. Take that hose off, then blow into the metal nipple the hose was on. Air should exit the aft hose on the right side of the engine (aft hose of the two above the ACV). That should happen. Probably will. Do it anyway.
Good. You have a meter. Find a known gnd for its negative lead. Get the engine fully hot. Then idle it. With the positive lead, backprobe the BLUE/YELLOW wire in the Relief solenoids elect plug. If things are right in the world, the meter will read below two volts dc. If things are screwy in the world, you'll see 12vdc or batt voltage.
That should tell us IF the ECU is putting a gnd on the Relief solenoid or not.
There's one other thing that I can think of that MIGHT mess things up. ON the bottom of the radiator, on the left side and on the aft side, there is a two prong switch. Are both the connectors on it?????? This water temperature sensor has an effect on the Relief solenoid at certain times. It's worth taking a look at.
I'm always saying to get the engine fully hot. There is a reason. The water thermowax can move the throttle linkage. When the throttle linkage is moved, the TPS plunger is moved. Kinda screws up the setting of the TPS and also screws up the signal from the ECU to the Relief and switching solenoids. But you've been fully heating the engine up so it should not be a problem in any way. Just FYI.
There's something obviously wrong with the Relief solenoid when the engine is idling. With a TPS output of one volt to the ECU, the ECU should be putting a gnd on the Relief solenoid, which opens it and lets vacuum travel over to the other side of the engine. Ain't a happening though.
Go look at that Relief solenoid and verify that its filter is below the electrical plug.
You know I attached a jpg of the Relief solenoid and pointed to VACUUM OUT or some such words. Take that hose off, then blow into the metal nipple the hose was on. Air should exit the aft hose on the right side of the engine (aft hose of the two above the ACV). That should happen. Probably will. Do it anyway.
Good. You have a meter. Find a known gnd for its negative lead. Get the engine fully hot. Then idle it. With the positive lead, backprobe the BLUE/YELLOW wire in the Relief solenoids elect plug. If things are right in the world, the meter will read below two volts dc. If things are screwy in the world, you'll see 12vdc or batt voltage.
That should tell us IF the ECU is putting a gnd on the Relief solenoid or not.
There's one other thing that I can think of that MIGHT mess things up. ON the bottom of the radiator, on the left side and on the aft side, there is a two prong switch. Are both the connectors on it?????? This water temperature sensor has an effect on the Relief solenoid at certain times. It's worth taking a look at.
I'm always saying to get the engine fully hot. There is a reason. The water thermowax can move the throttle linkage. When the throttle linkage is moved, the TPS plunger is moved. Kinda screws up the setting of the TPS and also screws up the signal from the ECU to the Relief and switching solenoids. But you've been fully heating the engine up so it should not be a problem in any way. Just FYI.
07-20-08, 05:07 PM
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There's a reason we're trying to get vacuum at the hose on the right side of the engine for the ACV. If no vacuum is seen by the ACV, coming from the Relief solenoid, then the airpump air will always be dumped overboard out that LARGE black hose into a silencer in the right fender.
In other words, NO air will go to the Exhaust ports where it needs to go. When your at idle the airpump air goes to the exhaust ports. When you start driving, under certain conditions, it goes there no more, but gets dumped in the silencer. There's a reason for that happening. When driving, the 02 sensor is NOW in the closed loop, and is adjusting the afr to 14.7afr, therefore the airpump air isn't needed at that time.
Your emissions test seems to be looking only at idle emissions imho. The 02 sensor can't come into play unless the car is in gear and moving, so it's not helping or hurting anything. But what is hurting things is that the RElief solenoid isn't porting vacuum to the Relief diaphram inside the ACV which in turn blocks off the passage to the LARGE nipple and sends the air to the exhaust ports instead, which is good and what should be happening. Ain't though.
In other words, NO air will go to the Exhaust ports where it needs to go. When your at idle the airpump air goes to the exhaust ports. When you start driving, under certain conditions, it goes there no more, but gets dumped in the silencer. There's a reason for that happening. When driving, the 02 sensor is NOW in the closed loop, and is adjusting the afr to 14.7afr, therefore the airpump air isn't needed at that time.
Your emissions test seems to be looking only at idle emissions imho. The 02 sensor can't come into play unless the car is in gear and moving, so it's not helping or hurting anything. But what is hurting things is that the RElief solenoid isn't porting vacuum to the Relief diaphram inside the ACV which in turn blocks off the passage to the LARGE nipple and sends the air to the exhaust ports instead, which is good and what should be happening. Ain't though.
07-20-08, 05:15 PM
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About the timing. It should be done with a timing light. If set right, the cinch bolt will be close to the center of the slot in the CAS.
Mine is fucked up because I put the cas drive gear on backwards on the eccentric shaft. Using a timing light, the only way I could get the fixed pointer on the front cover to match the Lead mark on the pulley, was to fully rotate the CAS counterclockwise and even then I had to take a rotary file and cut more out of the slot. The timing marks now align with the fixed pointer. It beats all the heck out of removing the front cover and flipping the CAS drive gear around one eighty.
That's my way of saying get a timing gun, cheap will do, and set the timing using it with a fully HOT engine and the idle speed well below 1100rpm. Above eleven hundred rpm, the ECU automatically advances the timing all by itself, therefore trying to set the timing with a light under those conditions is............futile.
But let's keep out eye on the ball and fix this lack of vacuum on the aft hose, of the two above the ACV.
Mine is fucked up because I put the cas drive gear on backwards on the eccentric shaft. Using a timing light, the only way I could get the fixed pointer on the front cover to match the Lead mark on the pulley, was to fully rotate the CAS counterclockwise and even then I had to take a rotary file and cut more out of the slot. The timing marks now align with the fixed pointer. It beats all the heck out of removing the front cover and flipping the CAS drive gear around one eighty.
That's my way of saying get a timing gun, cheap will do, and set the timing using it with a fully HOT engine and the idle speed well below 1100rpm. Above eleven hundred rpm, the ECU automatically advances the timing all by itself, therefore trying to set the timing with a light under those conditions is............futile.
But let's keep out eye on the ball and fix this lack of vacuum on the aft hose, of the two above the ACV.
07-20-08, 05:17 PM
#31
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Hey! When the engine is idling fully hot, and you remove the output hose from the RELIEF solenoid, can you feel any vacuum at that hose???????????? While idling. Should. If you do, then we can look at a problem not with the solenoid, but at the routing from the solenoid to the other side of the engine.
One last FYI thing. All the solenoids have two wires on their plugs. One wire on each is black/white and it has batt voltage anytime the key is to ON. What makes the solenoids work, is the ECU putting a gnd on the other wire that is on the connector. Just FYI so you won't wonder why the Relief solenoid reads 12 vdc at times. That 12vdc will drop to less than two volts when the ECU puts a gnd on the solenoid. The meter always needs to have its positive lead on the OTHER wire that is not colored black/white.
One last FYI thing. All the solenoids have two wires on their plugs. One wire on each is black/white and it has batt voltage anytime the key is to ON. What makes the solenoids work, is the ECU putting a gnd on the other wire that is on the connector. Just FYI so you won't wonder why the Relief solenoid reads 12 vdc at times. That 12vdc will drop to less than two volts when the ECU puts a gnd on the solenoid. The meter always needs to have its positive lead on the OTHER wire that is not colored black/white.
Last edited by HAILERS; 07-20-08 at 05:23 PM.
07-20-08, 05:47 PM
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Really odd. I idled my 86 non turbo and pulled the Blue plug off and on and I could definitely feel the solenoid and also hear it clicking. I held the plug where it was just barely making contact and moved it on/off, on/off numerous times. So it's worth looking at the yellow/blue wire with a meter with the engine HOT and idling.
Forget the water temperature switch on the radiator. I remove it and my Relief solenoid still works like it should.
Forget the water temperature switch on the radiator. I remove it and my Relief solenoid still works like it should.
07-20-08, 06:07 PM
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i have a question about the order of three vacum hoses on the front of the intake manifold. you know the one big one on top and the two small ones, one below the other in a up and down line. were should the middle vacuum hose lead to, the drivers side or the passengers side??
07-20-08, 06:19 PM
#34
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OK. I have found one thing that will let the RELIEF solenoid click when the engine is off, key ON, but NOT click when the engine is at idle. Send fifty bucks and I'll let you know what it is.
Well, it's the pressure sensor. When the engine is off, key ON, the sensor sees atmospheric pressure and the Relief solenoid does not energize/click.
I wen to my car. Idled it. Relief solenoid clicks/energizes. Key off. Removed the vacuum hose from the pressure sensor and plugged its vacuum line with a bolt. Started and idled the car. Relief solenoid will not energize no mo.
So. I suggest idling the engine. Go to the pressure sensor and take its vacuum line off and feel the hose to see if there is any vacuum on it. IF no vacuum, then we need to find out just why the other end of that line has no vacuum on it.
IF it has vacuum............then I'd suggest the output from the sensor to the ECU might be *open*.
Anyway, see if the pressure sensor has vacuum on its hose at idle .....or not.
Well, it's the pressure sensor. When the engine is off, key ON, the sensor sees atmospheric pressure and the Relief solenoid does not energize/click.
I wen to my car. Idled it. Relief solenoid clicks/energizes. Key off. Removed the vacuum hose from the pressure sensor and plugged its vacuum line with a bolt. Started and idled the car. Relief solenoid will not energize no mo.
So. I suggest idling the engine. Go to the pressure sensor and take its vacuum line off and feel the hose to see if there is any vacuum on it. IF no vacuum, then we need to find out just why the other end of that line has no vacuum on it.
IF it has vacuum............then I'd suggest the output from the sensor to the ECU might be *open*.
Anyway, see if the pressure sensor has vacuum on its hose at idle .....or not.
Last edited by HAILERS; 07-20-08 at 06:28 PM.
07-20-08, 06:26 PM
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i have a question about the order of three vacum hoses on the front of the intake manifold. you know the one big one on top and the two small ones, one below the other in a up and down line. were should the middle vacuum hose lead to, the drivers side or the passengers side??
Bottom hose is the only one that is getting vacuum from the dynamic chamber. IT goes straight down to connect to a tube. That tube goes to the left side of the engine to supply vacuum to the solenoids (some of the solenoids).
The middle hose is not vacuum, but is supplying fresh, filtered, metered air to the metal nipple b/t the two oil injectors on the lower intake manifold.
Big line goes to the OMP spider under the dynamic chamber and supplys fresh, filtered, metered air to the oil injectors nipples. The nipple on top of the oil injectors. This is series four non turbo. NOT turbo engine.
07-21-08, 12:41 AM
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It may not be $50 but if you'll settle for $25 I'll more then gladly send it...
...because you sir, just figured out why the other Relief Solenoid hose wasn't getting vacuum.
Well, it's the pressure sensor. When the engine is off, key ON, the sensor sees atmospheric pressure and the Relief solenoid does not energize/click.
I went to my car. Idled it. Relief solenoid clicks/energizes. Key off. Removed the vacuum hose from the pressure sensor and plugged its vacuum line with a bolt. Started and idled the car. Relief solenoid will not energize no mo.
So. I suggest idling the engine. Go to the pressure sensor and take its vacuum line off and feel the hose to see if there is any vacuum on it. IF no vacuum, then we need to find out just why the other end of that line has no vacuum on it.
IF it has vacuum............then I'd suggest the output from the sensor to the ECU might be *open*.
Anyway, see if the pressure sensor has vacuum on its hose at idle .....or not.
I went to my car. Idled it. Relief solenoid clicks/energizes. Key off. Removed the vacuum hose from the pressure sensor and plugged its vacuum line with a bolt. Started and idled the car. Relief solenoid will not energize no mo.
So. I suggest idling the engine. Go to the pressure sensor and take its vacuum line off and feel the hose to see if there is any vacuum on it. IF no vacuum, then we need to find out just why the other end of that line has no vacuum on it.
IF it has vacuum............then I'd suggest the output from the sensor to the ECU might be *open*.
Anyway, see if the pressure sensor has vacuum on its hose at idle .....or not.
07-21-08, 02:39 AM
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That's good. I've never had that particular fubar before. I read a page out of the series five FSM called RELATIONSHIP CHART that shows which items effect which other items and Pressure sensor was one of things that effected Relief solenoid. So I gave it a try on my car, and walla, that was the thing that could cause your problem.
So three things were wrong with your emissions control. The vacuum lines on the front of the dynamic chamber crossed and the two vacuum lines crossed above the ACV. Might throw in the TPS needed a slight adjustment from .7??? vdc upwards to 1.0vdc.
Even then, I'm still skeptical that if that if you have the original catalytic converters, that you will be able to pass emissions. Might give it a try if it cost is not much. I think your going to have a new main catalytic converter in your future.
Someday you might spring for a new used variable resistor. I'd pay no more than ten bucks for a used one. Its screw only rotates about 270* and has stops on each end. What does the screw in yours do????? Turn 360*??? round and round and round? Or?
So three things were wrong with your emissions control. The vacuum lines on the front of the dynamic chamber crossed and the two vacuum lines crossed above the ACV. Might throw in the TPS needed a slight adjustment from .7??? vdc upwards to 1.0vdc.
Even then, I'm still skeptical that if that if you have the original catalytic converters, that you will be able to pass emissions. Might give it a try if it cost is not much. I think your going to have a new main catalytic converter in your future.
Someday you might spring for a new used variable resistor. I'd pay no more than ten bucks for a used one. Its screw only rotates about 270* and has stops on each end. What does the screw in yours do????? Turn 360*??? round and round and round? Or?
07-21-08, 02:53 AM
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Also, I forgot to mention earlier that my idle seems to have smoothed out slightly more and dropped down to about 800 now without adjusting it. I had also checked the TPS again after fixing the vacuum line and it had raised slightly to about 1.05v so I corrected it. My variable resistor goes round and round and round... If I come across one I'll definitely pick one up. The inspection fee here in TN is $10, however if you fail you get a free re-test. If you fail the re-test you have to pay the $10 again though. I may drop by my dad's job again soon before carrying it to the inspection station and run it on their exhaust gas reader just to see how it does before wasting a free re-test. I really appreciate your help on this and walking me through it. I'd like to send you something via PayPal for helping me out if you'd accept it. I'll be sure to post more updates soon whether I test it at my dad's job or go ahead with carrying it to the inspection station again.
Last edited by m0x; 07-21-08 at 03:01 AM.
07-21-08, 02:53 AM
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That was answered in a post above........twice.
Bottom hose is the only one that is getting vacuum from the dynamic chamber. IT goes straight down to connect to a tube. That tube goes to the left side of the engine to supply vacuum to the solenoids (some of the solenoids).
The middle hose is not vacuum, but is supplying fresh, filtered, metered air to the metal nipple b/t the two oil injectors on the lower intake manifold.
Big line goes to the OMP spider under the dynamic chamber and supplys fresh, filtered, metered air to the oil injectors nipples. The nipple on top of the oil injectors. This is series four non turbo. NOT turbo engine.
Bottom hose is the only one that is getting vacuum from the dynamic chamber. IT goes straight down to connect to a tube. That tube goes to the left side of the engine to supply vacuum to the solenoids (some of the solenoids).
The middle hose is not vacuum, but is supplying fresh, filtered, metered air to the metal nipple b/t the two oil injectors on the lower intake manifold.
Big line goes to the OMP spider under the dynamic chamber and supplys fresh, filtered, metered air to the oil injectors nipples. The nipple on top of the oil injectors. This is series four non turbo. NOT turbo engine.
sorry to irritate you if i did.
07-21-08, 11:43 AM
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I'd like to send you something via PayPal ************************************************** ***********
No. But you can vote for ANYBODY but that SQUID who's running for president that wants to raise capital gains taxes. Anybody but that empty suit, empty headed, shucks for brains, squid. Here we have a economy that needs capital, a the squid wants to discourage investment. Screw 'em. Welll..............don't vote for Nader either. Anybody else will do fine.
This is the Lounge, isn't it.
No. But you can vote for ANYBODY but that SQUID who's running for president that wants to raise capital gains taxes. Anybody but that empty suit, empty headed, shucks for brains, squid. Here we have a economy that needs capital, a the squid wants to discourage investment. Screw 'em. Welll..............don't vote for Nader either. Anybody else will do fine.
This is the Lounge, isn't it.
07-22-08, 12:07 AM
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I'd like to send you something via PayPal ************************************************** ***********
No. But you can vote for ANYBODY but that SQUID who's running for president that wants to raise capital gains taxes. Anybody but that empty suit, empty headed, shucks for brains, squid. Here we have a economy that needs capital, a the squid wants to discourage investment. Screw 'em. Welll..............don't vote for Nader either. Anybody else will do fine.
This is the Lounge, isn't it.
No. But you can vote for ANYBODY but that SQUID who's running for president that wants to raise capital gains taxes. Anybody but that empty suit, empty headed, shucks for brains, squid. Here we have a economy that needs capital, a the squid wants to discourage investment. Screw 'em. Welll..............don't vote for Nader either. Anybody else will do fine.
This is the Lounge, isn't it.
I have no intentions of giving him my vote regardless of this thread.
K, were done with politics in here..
No updates on the emissions today.
I did get my set of s5 tails from RX7_Edgar in today.
10-24-08, 02:57 PM
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Alright, so after not really doing anything else with the car for the past 3 months I decided to take it in to get tested today...
The results..
HC: 455ppm (220ppm allowed)
CO: 3.95% (1.20% allowed)
CO2: 12.10% (no limit)
To keep you from having to scroll back through for my previous results, here they are:
HC: 1986ppm (220ppm limit)
CO: 5.63% (1.20% limit)
CO2: 7.61% (no limit)
I have a few questions that leave me wondering how close I actually am to passing now..
So here's how it went.. About 3 miles before I got there I stopped at a gas station and retarded the timing a bit (about 2/3 to the left if you divided the open area into thirds [remember I mentioned that it's near fully advance since I've had it]). I figured I'd retard it some for extra insurance just in case fixing the ACV didn't get me to entirely passing since doing so seemed to bring down the numbers drastically before. So after simply retarding it, it of course barely held an idle unless I assisted it.. While driving to the testing station I kept it in relatively low gear to keep the RPMs up (around 5k) and get the exhaust nice and hot.. Once I arrived I held it around 2200rpm to keep the cat warm while waiting. When I pulled in they set me up for dual exhaust (it's not dual, just standard dual outlet w/ dual tips on each) and I held my idle around 1500rpm. He asked me to reach 2500rpm and I held it around that or just above. After that it resumed back to a return idle test and I held it at a solid 1500rpm again..
So after thinking about it some on the way home, the way things went made me raise some questions..
By retarding the timing and forcing myself to assist holding the car at idle since I didn't adjust the idle screw or TPS did I cancel out the effect of my ACV working properly now and only hurt my score?
Also, by them setting it up for dual exhaust do you think that it hurt me or helped me? I'm not sure how their system works and since I could see it going either way I figured it best to ask. On one hand I could see how being setup for dual exhaust could possibly split my reading up making it less then it actually is, but on the other hand it makes me wonder if them setting it up that way caused it to read more then what it should have. I'm somewhat hoping it's the latter, so if that is the case (that dual hurt my reading) having them set it up to read for single in the future could help get me closer to passing. But, like I said, I'm not sure how their readings are taken, so that's all questionable until someone clarifies this for me.. For the record, I'm fairly certain all of my previous tests have been single exhaust readings.
The results..
HC: 455ppm (220ppm allowed)
CO: 3.95% (1.20% allowed)
CO2: 12.10% (no limit)
To keep you from having to scroll back through for my previous results, here they are:
HC: 1986ppm (220ppm limit)
CO: 5.63% (1.20% limit)
CO2: 7.61% (no limit)
I have a few questions that leave me wondering how close I actually am to passing now..
So here's how it went.. About 3 miles before I got there I stopped at a gas station and retarded the timing a bit (about 2/3 to the left if you divided the open area into thirds [remember I mentioned that it's near fully advance since I've had it]). I figured I'd retard it some for extra insurance just in case fixing the ACV didn't get me to entirely passing since doing so seemed to bring down the numbers drastically before. So after simply retarding it, it of course barely held an idle unless I assisted it.. While driving to the testing station I kept it in relatively low gear to keep the RPMs up (around 5k) and get the exhaust nice and hot.. Once I arrived I held it around 2200rpm to keep the cat warm while waiting. When I pulled in they set me up for dual exhaust (it's not dual, just standard dual outlet w/ dual tips on each) and I held my idle around 1500rpm. He asked me to reach 2500rpm and I held it around that or just above. After that it resumed back to a return idle test and I held it at a solid 1500rpm again..
So after thinking about it some on the way home, the way things went made me raise some questions..
By retarding the timing and forcing myself to assist holding the car at idle since I didn't adjust the idle screw or TPS did I cancel out the effect of my ACV working properly now and only hurt my score?
Also, by them setting it up for dual exhaust do you think that it hurt me or helped me? I'm not sure how their system works and since I could see it going either way I figured it best to ask. On one hand I could see how being setup for dual exhaust could possibly split my reading up making it less then it actually is, but on the other hand it makes me wonder if them setting it up that way caused it to read more then what it should have. I'm somewhat hoping it's the latter, so if that is the case (that dual hurt my reading) having them set it up to read for single in the future could help get me closer to passing. But, like I said, I'm not sure how their readings are taken, so that's all questionable until someone clarifies this for me.. For the record, I'm fairly certain all of my previous tests have been single exhaust readings.
Last edited by m0x; 10-24-08 at 03:15 PM.
10-24-08, 03:33 PM
#44
You are on the right track, but you now need a new catalytic converter.
Here is my emission testing thread. You can see the progression of fixes and the emission test results right up until I passed. I update it each year with pdf's of my current test. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=emission
Here is the current link to my converter. http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,.../selectZip.htm
The bottom line is that if you fix your car, it will pass. It will also run better, get better gas mileage, smell better and attract a better class of female riders.
Good Luck!
Here is my emission testing thread. You can see the progression of fixes and the emission test results right up until I passed. I update it each year with pdf's of my current test. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=emission
Here is the current link to my converter. http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,.../selectZip.htm
The bottom line is that if you fix your car, it will pass. It will also run better, get better gas mileage, smell better and attract a better class of female riders.
Good Luck!
10-24-08, 04:25 PM
#45
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
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You are on the right track, but you now need a new catalytic converter.
Here is my emission testing thread. You can see the progression of fixes and the emission test results right up until I passed. I update it each year with pdf's of my current test. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=emission
Here is the current link to my converter. http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,.../selectZip.htm
The bottom line is that if you fix your car, it will pass. It will also run better, get better gas mileage, smell better and attract a better class of female riders.
Good Luck!
Here is my emission testing thread. You can see the progression of fixes and the emission test results right up until I passed. I update it each year with pdf's of my current test. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=emission
Here is the current link to my converter. http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,.../selectZip.htm
The bottom line is that if you fix your car, it will pass. It will also run better, get better gas mileage, smell better and attract a better class of female riders.
Good Luck!
10-24-08, 05:09 PM
#46
I spend some time in the Zone looking through the catalog. I am pretty sure they had some other cats that were the same rating with other inlet/outlet diameters.
You want to choose the cat bed/body sized for the maximum vehicle size/weight to maximize the size of the brick, number of holes to reduce backpressure. This is more important than the size of the pipes. It also helps for durability.
Here are the specs for the maremont converter I used:
Maximum EPA, California ARB Compliance Type, Engine C.I.D. & Test Weight*
* 2-Way
* EPA - 472cu @ 7700 lbs.
* Calif. ARB - 460cu @ 6000 lbs.
* 3-Way
* EPA - 460cu @ 7000 lbs.
* Calif. ARB - 360cu @ 6000 lbs.
* 3-Way + Oxd
* EPA - 360cu @ 7000 lbs.
* Calif ARB - 360cu @ 6000 lbs.
* *NOTE: EPA Test Weight can be estimated as gross vehicle weight {GVW} less vehicle cargo capacity, plus 300 lbs.
* 2-Way
* EPA - 472cu @ 7700 lbs.
* Calif. ARB - 460cu @ 6000 lbs.
* 3-Way
* EPA - 460cu @ 7000 lbs.
* Calif. ARB - 360cu @ 6000 lbs.
* 3-Way + Oxd
* EPA - 360cu @ 7000 lbs.
* Calif ARB - 360cu @ 6000 lbs.
* *NOTE: EPA Test Weight can be estimated as gross vehicle weight {GVW} less vehicle cargo capacity, plus 300 lbs.
If you can get the guys at the parts store to actually let you into the printed parts library, you can find lots of 'custom' parts by spec shopping. Don't deal with anyone who insists on pecking on the computer look-up systems.
The key is to find someone who is interested in what you are doing but is not too busy to help. Friday nights are a good time to get this help, because they are usually pretty bored.
10-25-08, 09:16 AM
#47
Rotary Enthusiast
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Location: Texas BABY!
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I think you retarded the timing too much, that is what will cause the Co2 to go up. I retarded mine also to pass but i only retarded about 1/3. That combined with achlahol in the tank got me to pass nicely.
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