Spectator

iTrader: (1)

As in, welded shut!

Take into consideration that the guy I am talking about has very little experience, so its really not his fault, he was guided through this, as we all were once.

So the guy in question was asking me questions about his set up and he was telling me he wanted a map for 10 and 15PIS on his turbo. So I ask him what kind of turbo he plans on using, and he tells me that a guy sold him a stock TII turbo with a welded shut wastegate!!

First off, running over 12 PSI with the stock turbo is not recommended, and second, there is no way to control your boost if the wastegeate is welded shut.

What should this guy do iyo. Ask for his money back, or unweld the wastegate?

And can you guys name me every possible outcome of a welded wastegate? And what will end up in turbo failure. Its to back me up, because I am the only one telling him this... I will use this thread as a "wake up call" if the seller says I am telling BS.

Thank you.

Spec.

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

Welded... shut...?



Sorry but if that's true the guy who sold the turbo knows nothing about it. I'd get my money back. Uncontrolable boost is bad.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

FWIW, racers do and have done this to reach boost levels that aren't easily attainable by regular wastegate operation. Tricks like using pressurized C02 to hold the diaphram shut are among the many methods.

But on a setup that will actually be driven, this wouldn't work. There would be no way to control boost and it would simply ramp up indefinetely.

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

But have they ever actually welded the waste gate? I wouldn't think so besides I was never a big fan of hack jobs.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Yup, I've seen it.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Turbos with wastegates welded shut just use the old "right foot boost control".

Back in the day, especially from American cars, it was common to see turbo systems lacking a wastegate altogether.

Now as far as doing this in an FC, that's just plain crazy. The stock turbo is very small and will make astronomical boost levels if the wastegate is welded shut. The result will be massive boost spikes (assuming an unrestricted intake and exhaust) to 20 PSI or more, with the predictable outcome of turbo and engine destruction. At those levels the turbo is pushing more heat then air anyway.

Depending on how it was welded shut, it may be easily reversible. If it was just tacked, then the tacks can be cut. If it was fully welded it may need to be cut out completely and then repaired. Might be cheaper/easier to just replace the hotside.

Dugwillis84

iTrader: (1)

How about welding the wastegate shut, and using a new manifold with external wastegate?

(Not saying i would ever do this, but just puttin it out there.)

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Sure...

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Its been done.

SpooledupRacing

that was prolly the guys idea when it was done.. this way he dont have to buy an externally gated turbo...

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

It's doable but what would be the point? Can the stock turbo even make enough
boost to need an external wastegate?

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

I'm guessing external wastegates are used primarily because of flow advantages over internal wg's and so that you might not have to mess with the turbo itself if the wg breaks in any way. As far as any turbo needing an external wg, I wouldn't think so (I do understand that many turbos simply don't have an internal wg so yes they need an external wg, but if they all did have internal wg's I would think an external would be more beneficial for the above stated reasons)

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Boost isn't a deciding factor. I ran a stock turbo with a VW external wastegate and it worked fabulous. Absolutely no boost creep - rock solid 12psi.

As mentioned an external gate has a few advantages mainly flow, being that you can place an external gate in the optimal position.

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

Internal wastegates are cheaper but limit big power. This is why the stock turbo has one while most aftermarket turbos don't.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Howard Coleman runs two T04-S with internal gates. He has enough compressor flow to make over 600whp - internal gates don't limit horsepower.

Its just another design, there's drawbacks and upsides to either, and either if executed properly can work as well as the other.

NZConvertible

Explain to us how an internal wastegates "limit big power". They actually do the exact opposite, but I'd like to hear your explanation anyway...

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

DUDE, you read my mind! I think that this possibly is what happened with wherever this poor turbo was installed on before.

SamuraiMan1515

pretty much I was going to use a stock turbo and weld the wastegate shut, so I can use an external. I heard that those were better than internal and also, it would be better positioning for me than the internal, being that I have an N/A. Im my opinion welded shut would be fine if you use and external, but running without a wastegate is insane.

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

I was talking about factory units. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

meh, friend of mine welded the wastegate shut on his Big 16G turbos on his Vr-4 because it wouldn't hold over 22psi. He had racegas in there and a decent enough tune that it was fine.

I had my wastegate not open on my T2 and it only hit 16psi or so, but the turbo was on its last legs anyway.

NZConvertible

Your comment still doesn't make any sense. The only thing wrong with factory internal wastegates is they're too small. This makes boost go up, which has the exact opposite effect you claim.

RB_eater

iTrader: (1)

What effect did I claim? If the wastegate is too small it will create boost creep and possibly leen conditions in the engine. Sure more boost can make power but if you can't control it there's no point.

I think this mod is more about staying within a competitive class or withinn a budget then actual performance.

phoenix7

I thought the point was: "it's dumb because the stock turbo will be past it's point of max efficiency" so welding it shut to induce that isn't necessary and if you think it is then why did you make this thread?

Send the turbo to BNR.

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

Unless the person is paranoid, and wants to run a 10~12psi external wastegate and be SHURE it functions correctly?

Through I do think that would be too much $$, work, and effort since the stock one seems to function fine for a LOT of people if you just port it a little.

phoenix7

if he's set up for 12psi and his WG doesn't open for whatever reason and he spikes to 16 psi then your motor goes out the window. Most people are inattentive when they drive to begin with and driving like that is like playing Russian roulette.

Will you be looking at the guage when it spikes and lift off in time or will you blow the motor?

Turbo failure would be number three on the list of problems. If you don't wanna blow the money on a hybrid then I'd suggest you unweld it.