wondering....
08-11-05, 06:34 PM
#1
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wondering....
i was wondering if a non ported RB lightweigh housings and race rotors would be an OK rebuild upgrade option? and what would it take to get my 13bt to hit 10krpm streetable...its gotta be possible with standalone and dyno tuning along with the race rotors from RB....what else (yea drive shaft too huh....) anything else?
08-11-05, 07:21 PM
#4
for rebuild:
why in hell would you spend 1300 bucks on housings without porting them? if youre gonna spend that, get new rotor housings too, and have everything professionally ported.
for 10k rpm:
10k isnt that much. a stock motor with a computer will rev to 10k no problem (although it wont drive that way very well, they make no power at that speed without porting)
If you want to get high revs (12-14k), you need to use upgraded bearings and have the eshaft rejetted for better oiling. also have everything balanced and blueprinted. then you're set.
also you need to put a scatter shield around the tranny, so that the clutch doesnt cut your legs off...
you dont need to do anything to the driveshaft, it has nothing to do with engine rpm.
you may want to get a set of underdrive pulleys, as high rpms will destroy the peripherals ( alt, ac, ps, waterpump, etc.)
also, if you're spending the money to get all aluminum parts and so on, you might want to look into ceramic coating, which will make everything last longer and run better, esp. with the high revs. a company called jhbperformance is the only one that does it currently as far as i know.
pat
why in hell would you spend 1300 bucks on housings without porting them? if youre gonna spend that, get new rotor housings too, and have everything professionally ported.
for 10k rpm:
10k isnt that much. a stock motor with a computer will rev to 10k no problem (although it wont drive that way very well, they make no power at that speed without porting)
If you want to get high revs (12-14k), you need to use upgraded bearings and have the eshaft rejetted for better oiling. also have everything balanced and blueprinted. then you're set.
also you need to put a scatter shield around the tranny, so that the clutch doesnt cut your legs off...
you dont need to do anything to the driveshaft, it has nothing to do with engine rpm.
you may want to get a set of underdrive pulleys, as high rpms will destroy the peripherals ( alt, ac, ps, waterpump, etc.)
also, if you're spending the money to get all aluminum parts and so on, you might want to look into ceramic coating, which will make everything last longer and run better, esp. with the high revs. a company called jhbperformance is the only one that does it currently as far as i know.
pat
08-11-05, 07:46 PM
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yes i just wanted to know because i wanna build sumthing around 12krpm turbo on the side and i want to do it right.....if at all possible...cryo-treating then ceramic coating would be a good idea too right? or will you not be able to cryo and ceramic coat? OR will it not matter if one is done or the other...?
08-11-05, 07:53 PM
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I'd find a good rotary tuning shop right away and spend some time talking with them about the project first. Although there are a good number of people on here that really know their ****, you still want to talk to a trusted experienced individual that can help yuo with the entire project.
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08-11-05, 08:21 PM
#8
^^^ i second the motion.
as far as cryo and ceramic, i dont know, but i would imagine that ceramic is a little better than cryo, and that one would not want to do bot, as they both do very similar things.
the advantage of ceramic is that it not only adds to the hardness of surfaces, but also makes a slicker surface, and a heat barrier.
pat
as far as cryo and ceramic, i dont know, but i would imagine that ceramic is a little better than cryo, and that one would not want to do bot, as they both do very similar things.
the advantage of ceramic is that it not only adds to the hardness of surfaces, but also makes a slicker surface, and a heat barrier.
pat
08-11-05, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by patman
the advantage of ceramic is that it not only adds to the hardness of surfaces, but also makes a slicker surface, and a heat barrier.
Our cars oil system accounts for %30 of the engine's cooling and by creating a ehat barrier between the oil and the combustion chamber heat won't you be putting more stress on the rest of the cooling system?
Wouldn't it be better to get a higher capacity oil system (mabye even dry-sump) and getting a better oil cooler or doubling up on the cooler?
I'm not an engineer but that just makes more sense to me (and I'm just asking this to ease my mind).
08-12-05, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by patman
notice how it says turbo up there ^^
I missed the "t" in "13bt". :P
I think those "race rotors" are N / A applications (only)?
Why would you "need" to spin a 13BT up to 10kRPM's?
-Ted
08-15-05, 01:13 PM
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I think before anything else is discussed we need to be sure you've secured the funding for this project.
After that, you need to talk to the guy with the S6 850 RWHP daily driver.
Oh yeah, and if you get a good turbo and fuel set up, there's not really a need to go above about 8 grand. And like patman said, with no porting, there will be no need to go above that anyway because there's no untapped power up there.
After that, you need to talk to the guy with the S6 850 RWHP daily driver.
Oh yeah, and if you get a good turbo and fuel set up, there's not really a need to go above about 8 grand. And like patman said, with no porting, there will be no need to go above that anyway because there's no untapped power up there.
08-15-05, 07:10 PM
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ah...now would it be possible to rock maybe an NA 13BRE(yes yes custom!)? im just wondering about how possible and how much and no im not a kid i was just day dreaming and thinking about building sumthing on the side
08-15-05, 09:42 PM
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You went from a $10k, 10kRPM spinning rebuild to a Cosmo 13B-RE with no turbos???
Dude, you were born when I graduated high school...
Where are you getting these insane ideas?
Oh wait, they already make a stock Cosmo 13B-RE with no turbos!
-Ted
Dude, you were born when I graduated high school...
Where are you getting these insane ideas?
Oh wait, they already make a stock Cosmo 13B-RE with no turbos!
-Ted
08-17-05, 04:25 PM
#20
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nah chill everyone im just playin around i was kinda wondering in all honesty
i was wondering about the all motor potential of the 13bre
taking a look at the 4A-GE 20 vavle blacktop NA engine from toyota able to make power HIGH up there to 10-11k...(my buddies building his 86...) and i just wondered about an N/A rotary monster that can rock the socks offa that engine with some HIGH rev topend like that ...its really my point...the light weight engine idea is also an honset Q but this is what i was truly getting at im not a grade school kid trying to dream up rotary powered NSXes with prattwhtieny turbines and delta winged FD's...just wondering how feaseable sumthing like taht really is...(i know its easy to get flamed here so i was a little too broad on my explaination....)
so yea...
i was wondering about the all motor potential of the 13bre
taking a look at the 4A-GE 20 vavle blacktop NA engine from toyota able to make power HIGH up there to 10-11k...(my buddies building his 86...) and i just wondered about an N/A rotary monster that can rock the socks offa that engine with some HIGH rev topend like that ...its really my point...the light weight engine idea is also an honset Q but this is what i was truly getting at im not a grade school kid trying to dream up rotary powered NSXes with prattwhtieny turbines and delta winged FD's...just wondering how feaseable sumthing like taht really is...(i know its easy to get flamed here so i was a little too broad on my explaination....)
so yea...
08-18-05, 08:38 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by --MAstermind--
taking a look at the 4A-GE 20 vavle blacktop NA engine from toyota able to make power HIGH up there to 10-11k...(my buddies building his 86...)
It runs a special high-lift cam to make that power with gobs of duration - READ: IT AIN'T STREETABLE HOLMES.
That engine makes **** for power under 5kRPM, buy it starts to wake up at 7kRPM.
and i just wondered about an N/A rotary monster that can rock the socks offa that engine with some HIGH rev topend like that ...its really my point.
It's called a bridge port or a peripheral port.
...and like your imaginary friend's $10k 4AGE engine, it's also unstreetable.
-Ted
08-18-05, 10:54 AM
#22
20B swap if you're thinking that. Sell the turbos, buy another one, combine the two engines into one good one. Periphanal (omg I can't spell) port it and there, you have a high revving NA 20B.
You'd be better off Bridgeporting a 13BT and using the turbo, you'd probably make more HP for less money.
Honestly? Modding a car isn't at all that easy if you didn't know. Once you start to really build, there are so many little factors you have to worry about and then the age of the car.
For example: for a TII
Intake, exhaust. After that it leads to wastegate porting, then a FCD, then a fuel pump, then injectors, then a SAFC and so on. They're fun, but doing this $10k **** isn't as easy as you would think.
You'd be better off Bridgeporting a 13BT and using the turbo, you'd probably make more HP for less money.
Honestly? Modding a car isn't at all that easy if you didn't know. Once you start to really build, there are so many little factors you have to worry about and then the age of the car.
For example: for a TII
Intake, exhaust. After that it leads to wastegate porting, then a FCD, then a fuel pump, then injectors, then a SAFC and so on. They're fun, but doing this $10k **** isn't as easy as you would think.
08-18-05, 12:56 PM
#23
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if u mean unstreetable as in its slow untill it hits 5.5/6krpm yes if u mean it cant run in the streets then WRONG..
yes yes i understand how hard it is and how much $$$ in tuning BUT it can hit 10k the stock crank cant hack anything above it...
hey RETed....that motor came outta a AE111 it was a streetable engine 95(blacktop).........dood a 20v conversion is like a 13bre conversion in the toyoya /sprinter world (now if u meant the toyota atlantic 250hp 20v) then yea its a race engine....
do your homework pal....TONS of people drive 4age 20v and TONS of parts are selling all over? where did u gather this information?
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8422/4age.htm
club4ag.com
http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95418
thanx for the input i just finished reading about that NA with ITB's and what not and is more like what im getting at but on an RE......people are soo nutty.........saying a 20v 4age isnt streetable is like saying a 20b wasnt streetable either....
its all good check out taht fourm up there lots of tech articles and info about toyota if u wanna get a little more knowledgeable in the field
thanx again everyone for your input
yes yes i understand how hard it is and how much $$$ in tuning BUT it can hit 10k the stock crank cant hack anything above it...
hey RETed....that motor came outta a AE111 it was a streetable engine 95(blacktop).........dood a 20v conversion is like a 13bre conversion in the toyoya /sprinter world (now if u meant the toyota atlantic 250hp 20v) then yea its a race engine....
do your homework pal....TONS of people drive 4age 20v and TONS of parts are selling all over? where did u gather this information?
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8422/4age.htm
club4ag.com
http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95418
thanx for the input i just finished reading about that NA with ITB's and what not and is more like what im getting at but on an RE......people are soo nutty.........saying a 20v 4age isnt streetable is like saying a 20b wasnt streetable either....
its all good check out taht fourm up there lots of tech articles and info about toyota if u wanna get a little more knowledgeable in the field
thanx again everyone for your input
Last edited by --MAstermind--; 08-18-05 at 01:01 PM.
08-18-05, 01:36 PM
#24
first off... you guys are talking about 2 different engines, you're both right 
second off... dude, you're like a sophomore in college? there is no way you can afford any sort of engine that you're talking about...
third off.. you don't really want to do a high rev turbo... you do high rev NAs because that's how they make more power. I would probably suggest a NA 20B with lightweight S5 NA rotors if you're going to do a high rev engine.
second off... dude, you're like a sophomore in college? there is no way you can afford any sort of engine that you're talking about...
third off.. you don't really want to do a high rev turbo... you do high rev NAs because that's how they make more power. I would probably suggest a NA 20B with lightweight S5 NA rotors if you're going to do a high rev engine.