I know the S-AFC doesn't have this feature but why do It?

 

Why advance you timing any time??????? TO GO FASTER seriously why not just because you have an afc doesnt mean that you cant play around with what your car gives you dont rely on electronics to make your car faster work with what you got then use electronics to fine tune....I would run a higher degree timing 2 550cc and some 93 mess around with my "two screws" (afm and idle adjust) and then work with the afc although i dont suggest messing with the two screws cause one you probally cant see and the other is gonna make your car run really rich....

 

550's would be a waste of money.

 

if you have the mods and an afc why not
hell if it wouldnt work just shift at 3700

 

Advancing timing really does give you power. Ask ppnos. he dynoes a 3rwp gain by advancing it I think.

 

550cc/min secondaries are unnecessary unless you plan to exceed 240-250hp (the limit of the stock 460's), which you can't without at least a bridgeport.
If you have an S-AFC, messing with the AFM calibration screw is completely pointless. That's what you got the S-AFC for!

 

i dont have an afc right now so thats why i AM messing with it but yes i was talking to felix about that and found out that i could do the better with an adj. fpr and an afc than two 550s

And i cant prove anything but advancing your timing to up in the mid 20s will do something atleast more than 3hp my friends car went from a 15.0 to a 14.6 in the quarter and numberous people on the forum say it is good for atleast .2 off your quartermile time... If you advance it around 15 or so you can still use 87 and its not that much of a hp adder.... Just my take on three cars around here that all mess with thier timing

 

I thought the stock timing was around 20 degrees to begin with??? And timing will make a bigger difference the more mods you have. I forgot actualy if it was 3rwp or 7rwp that pp13bnos got when he dynoes his before after.

 

how exactly do you advance your timing? i know where it is but i duno what you do with it.

 

I advanced mine by 5 degrees. I also used the 550 secondaries. There is a gain to be had from this if you don't plan on adding any piggyback computers. Cheaper than an S-AFC since my friend had them lying around and just gave them to me To advance the timing turn the crank angle sensor to the right. Stock timing marks are 10 degrees apart. I advanced mine to halfway between these marks.

 

von im not sure but i know there is no way stock is 20 if the limit is 25 and a safety is 24 <- highest anyone should go

 

I dont thing you understand the principle of advancing you timing. This is what happens.

It takes a certain amount of time for the gas to really explode after is ignited by the sparkplugs. At high RPM, your engine is turing so fast by the time the gas gets buring where it can make its power, its missed the powerstroke and is on it way out of your engine. By advancing your timing, you can try to ignite the gas earlier so it can hit to powerstroke at the earliest point and can push that rotor longer. Too early, you get pinging, to late you get less power, but safer.

 

uh thank you mr sheik what the hell did that have to do with anything said above..

 

20 degrees throughout the rpm band is stock? I thought it was 25 for some reason. Hmm, i run 32 and then back it off above about 3500 with my WOLF.

 

hmm wow does your motor have an S on it -look its super rotor!!! seriously i dont know how your junk is timed but everyone i know says that 25 is the highest the motor can go

 

ROTORIFIC. If your refering to the guy with the wolf then your misunderstanding the principle of timing I think. (no offense) OCs statement had everything to do with Mr Wolf because a stock ECU doesent automatically retard timing unless it detonates. So if you run 32 degrees at 8000rpms the computer will do 32 degrees throught the powerband wich is ok for down low but up top like OC said you will pre detinate. Now with a wolf you can run super advanced timing down low or mid and back it off as the rpms get higher. Comprende? Most of your statements on this thread have made no sense ( no offense )

 

A gain? From making the engine run 10% richer above 3800rpm? The richer the mixture, the less power (and more black smoke) the engine makes. Plenty of guys here have found that out...

 

Then plenty of guys didn't know what they were doing. I had a very noticable gain. Of course I actually removed the actuator rods and radiused the runners which contributed to greater airflow unlike the people who simply wire them open and gain nothing. More air and more fuel did equal more power on my car. It does work on an S4. Can't speak for the S5. I had ZERO black smoke. Anyone who has smoke out the exhaust has some bigger issues to worry about. I don't get any smoke from any of my engines ported or not.

 

Yes it does. The stock ECU (just like all engine management computers) varies ignition timing with load and rpm just like it does with fuel.
This used to by done by the dizzy, with ignition being advanced by centrigugal weights as rpm increased and retarded as load increased by engine vacuum. This is now done by the ECU based on rpm info from the CAS and load info from the pressure sensor. It can also pull the ignition back sharply if detonation is detected.
3D ignition maps are not nice smooth curves like you'd expect (or straight lines like a dizzy produced!). They are carefully tailored by the factory to extract maximum (safe) power under all load/rpm conditions. This is why advancing the ignition via the CAS is such a crude method. It simply moves the whole ignition map by the same amount.

 

That my friend is correct. I personally liked the cas advanced 5 degrees but it was also on an n/a not a turbo.

 

Hmm thats another super rotor motor...

VON first its so cool how you approached this instead of being like the forum standard and flaming the crap out of someone.....
sorry if i seem that i dont know what im talking about i can see where im confusing people....i understand the logistics of timing very well thats why i got pissed when that guy came out of nowhere....what i dont understand is the degrees in which we can use....Im sitting here getting told what are the high and low points of timing using a timing gun and the needle on the motor ...I wasnt aware of the powers of a standalone so im baseing my knowledge on a stock ecu and that is where i get my 25 degrees is max thing from....

As far as my engine setup... I dont have a pigyback but i am getting an adjustable fpr to further tune the 460s i dont have 550s but i plan to get some...If i get 550s then a fuel controller is a must along side my FPR if i dont like them or cant tune them properly then ill get rid of them its only a 20 minute job....

Im fairly confident that the setup i run now is helping me in the top end in a big way I do plan to get some dyno time soon to try and plead my case... Although i am running richer than most it only takes a few turns to get it where i want it to be i just like popping foot long flames when i drive by some dick in a mustang....

Hope that helps

 

OOHHH ok, i see, the ONLY reason you want the 550s is so you can flame flame on command.... man....

 

remind me to smack you when i come steal your 550s today Thats not the reason you should know ive already talked to you about my plans

 

BDC runs somewhere around 34 degrees at low rpm's with his Haltech. It tapers off pretty fast depending on boost and rpm but finally settles around 20 degrees as he goes higher up. He developed his setup on a dyno. A/F ratio is quite lean down there too but that gets taken care of later as well. Being lean or having very advanced timing doesn't hurt if you are at low rpm's or under no boost.

 

thnx rotorific. Keep on flamin. Im just learning the A/F and timing stuff myself. Im going to be spending lots of time with a dyno soon. I did one dyno earlier and am way confused on whats going on with the A/F ratio. One thing I did notice is the lack of knowledge poeple have when it comes to tuning and a/f ratio. This sucks because I have to just expierience it on a dyno wich costs big bucks...

Anyways my take on some lean rich misconceptions is this. Lean = more power but if you to lean like if your to advanced on the timing. Your going to lose power therefore adding fuel will help in that case. Many things can cause you to lose power going to lean like detonation , ECU will retard the timing if it thinks its detonating wich should cause loss of hp without any sings of ping sometimes. Therefor adding fuel will give mroe power.