why not 6port-turbo?
08-05-08, 07:13 PM
#1
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why not 6port-turbo?
im asking this becasue ive had a few people tell me its not worth the time and money to do a 6port turbo,and i cant boost much at all..... why is this so? im rebuilding my motor right now, i have fd corner springs,solid corner seals,atkins cryo treated apex seals,and the rest for the rebuild, is there a big reason as to why i cant boost my motor and it be somewhat worth while??
thanks for the help
thanks for the help
08-05-08, 07:15 PM
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@ pipnorcali
08-05-08, 08:01 PM
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oh bye the way i have a street port...or sort of..its a 6port of course,but im still wondering is it just the lack of integrity of stock internals that cant hadle boost?will my upgrade internals help? also can i use tii lim and uim that way i dont have to use the spacer and.. strawberry adaptor?
08-05-08, 08:13 PM
#7
I'd imagine most would say don't do this only because the 6 port engines are NA, which means they have the higher compression rotors. Higher compression = dangerous withs stock "equipment" and boost. Upgraded injectors, fuel pump, proper waste gate and especially an after market ECU can solve all that. 
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08-05-08, 09:29 PM
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i didn't rtfa's (and will prolly get bashed if it's in the articles, and i would deserve it), but im going to say that if you're going to a turbo, you can't use the aux port sleeves (stated in the teamfc3s thread), so at that point you just want to have big ports (well...to a point 
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)
08-06-08, 01:13 AM
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i dont have the aux ports in it anyways i took all the crap off, didnt think it was nessisary to mention this but, i have all the block offs, omp,bacv, and so on, of course i premix, also removed the actuators(not sure if i spelled that right) everything is stripped on my motor,rats nest as well.all i have is whats needed to start and run the motor, i curently have the aux ports fully open all the time, and some homemade header
08-06-08, 01:18 AM
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wait, what, seriously??? you realize that the aux ports are there FOR A REASON, right? you gain NOTHING having them open all the time, and lose low-end
if you have an s5 and removed the vdi you get a free kick for ditching two great things about the design :/
if you have an s5 and removed the vdi you get a free kick for ditching two great things about the design :/
08-06-08, 01:25 AM
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he makes a very good point, without them youre a dog at low rpm
08-06-08, 01:28 AM
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im not a newb to my motor, i know exactly why they are there, they didnt work when i got the car and it didnt have an exhaust, my buddy sold me an apex-i N1 dual set up with a straight pipe and i have a homeade header , im fine with the loss of low end, but leaving them closed will take away from top end,plus my car didnt have one of the acuators, nor an airpump,i figure why try and replace all of that crap when i can just do this, i dont mind the loss of low end because my motor spent most of its time above 3800 (i was waiting for the motor to finally go ,plus canyon carving is what i do,
not the best pics of the header, i dont know who made it i got it from a friend
not the best pics of the header, i dont know who made it i got it from a friend
Last edited by Aaron Cake; 08-06-08 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Merge three posts
08-06-08, 02:31 AM
#16
I don't see why anyone would advise against a 6 port turbo setup. Yes you need to have adequate knowledge of turbochargers (read/ research) and yes a TII swap is much easier (if you're OK with having a stock engine and have a nice workplace). You can't run as much boost obviously so you're giving up peak horsepower for low end response caused by early spool (full boost ~2500rpm).
Since you have everything off I'd use the TII manifolds to avoid the wrong side intercooler piping and the extra bends that come with it.
Since you have everything off I'd use the TII manifolds to avoid the wrong side intercooler piping and the extra bends that come with it.
08-06-08, 04:33 AM
#17
talking head
meh
i have been running turbo 6 port type motors since pre this century in my rx2
i use the 6 port end plates and a turbo inlet manifold
( that's been weld filled and port matched to suit the 6 port secondary runners )
and rebuild the engines as turbo motors
= turbo primary plate, turbo rotors, turbo oil pump
( and modified 12a timing cover with turbo oil drain )
and the only real mod besides that to the inlet manifold
- is to tap and helicoil the 6 port front plate suit an oil feed banjo for turbo
they go very well, and are stronger than my generic mild port turbo engines that i use in my FC
i cant see any reason to not use the 6 port endplates
( if your selecting turbo rotors for the build )
( yes i have tried boost with 9.4 rotors with petrol also , and that went AOK, but needed care with ignition timing )
i have been running turbo 6 port type motors since pre this century in my rx2
i use the 6 port end plates and a turbo inlet manifold
( that's been weld filled and port matched to suit the 6 port secondary runners )
and rebuild the engines as turbo motors
= turbo primary plate, turbo rotors, turbo oil pump
( and modified 12a timing cover with turbo oil drain )
and the only real mod besides that to the inlet manifold
- is to tap and helicoil the 6 port front plate suit an oil feed banjo for turbo
they go very well, and are stronger than my generic mild port turbo engines that i use in my FC
i cant see any reason to not use the 6 port endplates
( if your selecting turbo rotors for the build )
( yes i have tried boost with 9.4 rotors with petrol also , and that went AOK, but needed care with ignition timing )
08-06-08, 11:23 AM
#18
The 6 port engines are actually perfect for forced induction provided that the auxiliary ports are kept fully functional. Why n/a people ever like to leave them open full time and do nothing but lose average power has always been a mystery to me. Installing a turbo but disconnecting them in the name of "space requirements" is just a fancy way of saying "too lazy to make it work properly". The 6 port engine in general is my personal favorite. The 4 ports get all the love but as far as I'm concerned they should be reserved for bridgeport race engines. I love 6 port end housings. They've got tons of power potential to them provided they aren't bridged. Boost away! Just be realistic.
08-06-08, 01:49 PM
#20
You really want them closed when not in boost and open when in boost. Hook them up to the intake. When boost hits above positive pressure (anything over 0 psi gauge pressure), they're open. When you are out of boost and need the low end, low load power, they're closed. Simple.
08-06-08, 01:52 PM
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i didnt even think about that factor of the positive pressure from the turbo charge, thanks alot rotarygod, that solves one issue,but im going to be using the turbo UIM and LIM so then what can i do,
but i cant use the turbo with the actuators on the NA LIM, would it be any help at all to just get a aftermarket manifold to move the turbo , that way i can keep the stuff that aaroncake took off on his write up?
but i cant use the turbo with the actuators on the NA LIM, would it be any help at all to just get a aftermarket manifold to move the turbo , that way i can keep the stuff that aaroncake took off on his write up?
Last edited by Aaron Cake; 08-06-08 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Merge two posts
08-06-08, 02:35 PM
#22
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To add to this....
The reasons people say you can't turbocharge the NA 6 port are most commonly (in order):
1. People are stupid. They truly believe it can't be done. Either because the compression is too high, or ports won't allow it, or any number of other reasons.
2. It is far easier to just perform a TII swap.
3. In some cases it is cheaper then #2 to just sell the NA and buy a TII.
Now if you have a good NA engine and an NA car that you've invested a lot of time and money into, it can make more sense to turbocharge the NA engine assuming you are up to the task.
I never see the higher compression as a downside. In fact it's the complete opposite in my view. Better off boost performance, in theory better mileage, more power with less boost and a faster spool. The downside is of course that it's easier to blow up if you do something stupid.
I also agree with rotarygod in that it is majorly advantageous to maintain the functional aux port system. My next engine (that I am building for my '76 Cosmo) will be a fully functional 6 port system based around a GSL-SE block, GSL-SE lower intake, TII upper with custom spacer to mate to the NA lower, GT30R, of course a custom exhaust manifold and an air to water IC.
Of course it is difficult to maintain the aux ports when using the stock turbo unless you intend to building a manifold. Hence the easiest way to "solve" the problem is to remove them. A custom manifold to space the turbo forward and away from the lower intake will solve the problem. Hell, the stock turbo is too small for a 6 port turbo setup anyway...
The reasons people say you can't turbocharge the NA 6 port are most commonly (in order):
1. People are stupid. They truly believe it can't be done. Either because the compression is too high, or ports won't allow it, or any number of other reasons.
2. It is far easier to just perform a TII swap.
3. In some cases it is cheaper then #2 to just sell the NA and buy a TII.
Now if you have a good NA engine and an NA car that you've invested a lot of time and money into, it can make more sense to turbocharge the NA engine assuming you are up to the task.
I never see the higher compression as a downside. In fact it's the complete opposite in my view. Better off boost performance, in theory better mileage, more power with less boost and a faster spool. The downside is of course that it's easier to blow up if you do something stupid.
I also agree with rotarygod in that it is majorly advantageous to maintain the functional aux port system. My next engine (that I am building for my '76 Cosmo) will be a fully functional 6 port system based around a GSL-SE block, GSL-SE lower intake, TII upper with custom spacer to mate to the NA lower, GT30R, of course a custom exhaust manifold and an air to water IC.
Of course it is difficult to maintain the aux ports when using the stock turbo unless you intend to building a manifold. Hence the easiest way to "solve" the problem is to remove them. A custom manifold to space the turbo forward and away from the lower intake will solve the problem. Hell, the stock turbo is too small for a 6 port turbo setup anyway...
08-06-08, 02:40 PM
#23
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To add to this....
The reasons people say you can't turbocharge the NA 6 port are most commonly (in order):
1. People are stupid. They truly believe it can't be done. Either because the compression is too high, or ports won't allow it, or any number of other reasons.
2. It is far easier to just perform a TII swap.
3. In some cases it is cheaper then #2 to just sell the NA and buy a TII.
Now if you have a good NA engine and an NA car that you've invested a lot of time and money into, it can make more sense to turbocharge the NA engine assuming you are up to the task.
I never see the higher compression as a downside. In fact it's the complete opposite in my view. Better off boost performance, in theory better mileage, more power with less boost and a faster spool. The downside is of course that it's easier to blow up if you do something stupid.
I also agree with rotarygod in that it is majorly advantageous to maintain the functional aux port system. My next engine (that I am building for my '76 Cosmo) will be a fully functional 6 port system based around a GSL-SE block, GSL-SE lower intake, TII upper with custom spacer to mate to the NA lower, GT30R, of course a custom exhaust manifold and an air to water IC.
Of course it is difficult to maintain the aux ports when using the stock turbo unless you intend to building a manifold. Hence the easiest way to "solve" the problem is to remove them. A custom manifold to space the turbo forward and away from the lower intake will solve the problem. Hell, the stock turbo is too small for a 6 port turbo setup anyway...
The reasons people say you can't turbocharge the NA 6 port are most commonly (in order):
1. People are stupid. They truly believe it can't be done. Either because the compression is too high, or ports won't allow it, or any number of other reasons.
2. It is far easier to just perform a TII swap.
3. In some cases it is cheaper then #2 to just sell the NA and buy a TII.
Now if you have a good NA engine and an NA car that you've invested a lot of time and money into, it can make more sense to turbocharge the NA engine assuming you are up to the task.
I never see the higher compression as a downside. In fact it's the complete opposite in my view. Better off boost performance, in theory better mileage, more power with less boost and a faster spool. The downside is of course that it's easier to blow up if you do something stupid.
I also agree with rotarygod in that it is majorly advantageous to maintain the functional aux port system. My next engine (that I am building for my '76 Cosmo) will be a fully functional 6 port system based around a GSL-SE block, GSL-SE lower intake, TII upper with custom spacer to mate to the NA lower, GT30R, of course a custom exhaust manifold and an air to water IC.
Of course it is difficult to maintain the aux ports when using the stock turbo unless you intend to building a manifold. Hence the easiest way to "solve" the problem is to remove them. A custom manifold to space the turbo forward and away from the lower intake will solve the problem. Hell, the stock turbo is too small for a 6 port turbo setup anyway...
08-06-08, 02:54 PM
#24
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It's not really meant to be mean. Just that the 130HP NA 13B isn't really that exciting when placed in a big heavy car like the Cosmo. I'm building the 6 port turbo engine to provide as wide and large a torque band as possible, hence the small turbo and functional aux ports with long intake runners.
08-06-08, 08:15 PM
#25
Aaron Cake hit it dead on. It's completely doable if you have the money and the know-how. Most people I've talked to end up happy with their 6-port turbos, and if you haven't been to Aaron Cake's site, check it out; he has done amazing things with a 6-port turbo engine.
But, unless your engine is newly rebuilt or something like that, it's probably more financially intelligent to sell the car and buy a TII, or buy a TII engine (and maybe transmission, rear end, etc.)
But, unless your engine is newly rebuilt or something like that, it's probably more financially intelligent to sell the car and buy a TII, or buy a TII engine (and maybe transmission, rear end, etc.)