Can you show me an example of any PP that is "streetable"?


-Ted

 

Sure, I always estimate on the high side with a potential customer that has NO "hook-up's".
I'm trying to "dumb this down".


Sure, and we can keep the stock exhaust system on it too.
Will it work? Yes.
With it work efficiently? No.
So you're end up with a PP motor only making 220hp?


Can you show me an example of a PP motor with an NA drivetrain that's reliable?
Most PP dyno graphs I've seen will break 200 lb-ft very easily.
I don't consider the NA drivetrain reliable over 200 lb-ft.


I can't comment on how streetable the PP motor will be.
All I know is overlap kills low end power and efficiency.
I don't build race cars.
I build street(able) cars.
My customers don't want something that guzzles 10mpg and makes very little power under 4,000RPM.


-Ted

 

I agree. Unless this is not a street car, however if you were doing this for a track car, I'd hope that you have the knowlege to properly build engines for the track.
(edit) BTW the "Valve overlap" is true. Why do ignorant people post such dumb responses like,"camshafts"?

 

I don't consider the N/A drivetrain relable period. If I posted pics, which I may do today (depending on camera) you would understand.

 

CUS THERE ARE NO F'ING VALVES!!!!!!!! "port overlap" would be the appropriate term; however the concept is the same.

i still think someone should build a hybrid side/pp motor that uses a variable manifold to switch between side and pp or even side and (side +pp) (this would also save on the cost of filling in the side ports on normal pp's)

same concept as a six port motor only the 5/6 ports would be periphreal!!!

obviously this would be a very technical and expensive project to undertake but you could have your cake and eat it too this way. side ports for low idle and decent low end, PP for power.

 

Hmm, Rob Golden runs one on the street, CJ runs one on the street. Mine is on the engine stand, will be street driven.

TED: How is YOUR car?

 

I've seen an AE86 (non-hatchback) that had a P-Ported 13B running on the street. This car held 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear sideways and spun through 4th on drag radials.

 

Why don't you just do the turbo swap? That way, if you want to upgrade to more power, you actually can.

 

Sitting outside?


-Ted

 

I'd have to aggree with ted here..

http://www.mazdatrix.com/r-20.htm

Thats if you don't build it yourself, or select the parts you want. You still have to get your driveline taken care of, fuel system, etc.. Then you have to drop it in.

http://www.hitman.hm/ported.htm

http://www.mazdarotary.net/porting.htm

These are only a few examples of simply typing in "Peripheral port 13b" into Google search. I'm more then positive, there are several engine manufactuers that have created a page dedicated to porting and what not.

As ted also says, he was posting that the amount could reach up to 10K + , which is true, because if you don't have the resources/DIY skill, and you want it to be ready to go and drop in, you will pay more then what a basic turbo swap will cost.

Honestly, if i were you, i'd just rebuild yours and street port it.. or just get a TII driveline.

-Justin

 

i have a peri-port in progress. will be either in my fb or fc or might just get another fb to run the motor. i'm doing my per-port project since i had a few housings laying around; i just need to open up the exhuast ports and i'll be almost done. i'll post pics in a few days or so.

doing it for bragging rights? you betcha!

 

what is a pp engine lifespan... 10k miles, n/a?

 

since it's just n/a.. i'm sure it can last 100k+. also does depend on way of driving it. drive it hard and it will live longer

 

n/a pp lasting 100k.... really?

 

well a pp but doesnt see over 7k rpm could probobly last a long time, but that would be pointless.

 

I've read that most pp's only last to about 10k, if your going to build one you may aswell make it a good one with 50mm ports, there is no point in a pp unless its radical.

 

Fair enough, but $10k (US presumeably) is an astronomical ammount for a PP engine IMHO...

3x45mm TB´s are more than enough to feed ANY n/a PP motor.
This is all a moot point though since it would be spastic to even try and make it work. I do feel it important to point out just how big the stock TB is though.

Well not everyone in this world is your customer, some people DO like to have to fill up their tank every 2days just for the pure fact of owning a PP or BP for the fun of it.

and all the rotors i´ve been in with a really agressive BP/PP have more power under 4,000 rpm than a stock port motor. Maybe you´ve only been in not very well tuned ones or your just exagerating a bit.
Sure they idle too high and really roughly, but they do have more power over almost all of the RPM range.

it´s always going to be a trabe off. Obviously a turbo motor will give you a more streetable car for the same ammount of horsepower. But every person I know with a ported rotor on the street does it because they like the sound and feel of one.

we´re all different in the way we look at our cars I guess..

 

This is tipically because they run carbon seals.
Carbon seals wear out rather fast but dont generally do any engine damage when they let go. So you just tear the engine down and replace the seals.

10K is a very short life though.
You can get upwards of 70k on carbon seals if the engine doesn´t see it´s whole life abive 8krpm.

 

Lesse...Mazdatrix 13B PP built-motor = $8,500
http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...num=MZTX-13-PP
That's with no shipping.
I'm sure you can find $1,500 to tack onto that budget...



Now, I'd like to see the math on this?
If we're talking about pure cross sectional area, then you're right - 3 x 45mm is a very large area.
But, we're talking about flow potential...
Now, I don't build these things, but I've heard an option on carb is a 2 x 50 - 55mm.
2 x 55mm bores can outflow 3 x 45mm...


Hey, I got nothing against that.

Okay, I'd like to see proof of that.
So far, I haven't.
If you got dyno graphs proving such claims, I'd be more than happy to see them also.


-Ted

 

Like I said, IMHO thats too much.
But a price is what people are willing to pay I guess....

Well you´d only ever run the stock TB on a common plenum design inlet manifold on a PP motor.
In that instance I can´t see how 2x50mm TB´s could flow more than 3x45mm TB´s.
I don´t know a whole lot about flow charateristics though.



Of course I dont have any dyno plots of PP´s or even BP´s for that matter.
Im just talking about what i´ve experienced myself. although I agree it would be an interesting exrecise to see a stock port motor and a PP go head to head on a dyno.

It´d have to be on the same dyno on the same day though.

 

"Quote:
Originally Posted by banzaitoyota
TED: How is YOUR car?


Sitting outside?


-Ted"

LOL damn i love his responses.
Hands down, one of the coolest guys on this board =)

 

What exactly deteriorates with a PP? is it the sealing around the PP itself, and then water starts to come out the sides of the pp?

 

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/dyno-test-13b-pp-202924/
https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/peripheral-porting-146917/

Although the dyno graphs are supposedly screwed up, I doubt the motors make any power under 4kRPM.
In fact, there's some numbers from a really low power PP in one of the above threads.

I'm sure there is a way to make one "streetable", but is it worth it?
I haven't seen one yet.


-Ted

 

Again, what is streetable?

Is it the fact that someone has successfully driven a car so equiped for a long period of time?,.. If so rob from pineapple racing has done so,.

Is it the fact that the car must make a certain amout of HP below 4k rpm? if so i assure you a PP will make more then a geo metro below 4k,.. are geo metros not streetable?

Is it the fact that a car must come in that configuration from the factory to be streetable? If so the NSU spider was PP from the factory,.. is this street car not streetable?

Also, the size of the PP matters,.. a small PP can behave just like a stock sideport on the street, granted it wont make huge power but it will be tame.

 

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