so, long story short.....
I bought my T2 from a very nice, reliable dude who builds rx7's for a living, and upon delivery it had water in the rad. instead of coolant. I admit that I knew there was water in it, however, at the time I have no idea what would happen when it froze this winter. So now I have a sexy t2 in my driveway that cant go anywhere.

My question is bascially...Is it my fault for not knowing what would happen, and not properly preparing my car, or is it his fault for assuming I would know there was water in it, and it needed to be swapped.

and before you make fun of me i already feel pretty stupid about not knowign what would happen before hand.

so should I go after him to pay for replacing the engine, or at least part of the cost?

 

This guy local to you?
Does "PA" stand for Pennsylvania?
If so, he's an idiot for having just plain water in your cooling system in WINTER!


-Ted

 

I agree. No reputable dealer should ever deliver a car with straight water in the rad. Especially in the winter or any area where it gets below freezing at any time. Obviously this is also very bad for the water pump in any circumstance.

 

i'd say its ur fault.....u should always check everything on the car after u buy it... especially during the winter/summer......did u buy this car before the winter? im assuing the car ran fine when u first got it.....and im not even gonna comment on the u knew it had water in the rad in the middle of freakin winter thing....

 

the seller was obviously just being lazy by using straight water without any coolant. I mean come on, whats it cost, just a few bucks and you only need a little bit to prevent it from freezing in most winter temps we see in the Northeast.

in the end, you are the only one to blame, especially when you knew it was just water only in the coolant system.... you should have researched it and at least added some coolant to prevent the damage, it was so easy to avoid!

good luck on the car though, that sucks.

 

When did you buy it? This winter, or earlier in the year?

 

I'd agree that it's your fault, even more so if you bought the car long before winter. I have to get to class now, but after work I might check up lexis nexis and see what the law is pertaining to this situation. Is this guy a dealer? If not, how many cars does he sell every year? When did you buy the car? You live in Pennsylvania right?

 

I say its both of your faults, but you could prog claim ignorance and tell him you didn't know there was straight water in it.

 

Personally, I think it's your fault either way. However, I asked what time of year you got it for possible law situations, such as what Nick was talking about.

Also, if you bought it in the winter with water in there, you might wanna warn people of who it was (I'd ask a mod about this)...

 

Caveat Emptor!
How long have you had this car and who sold it to you?

Its up to you to make sure that all the fluids/filters/maintenance has been done or is correct. This is for any used vehicle purchase. You learned your lesson so don't make that mistake again.

Most states have laws but dollar amounts and time limits exist. Research your state, but I doubt that there is anything you can do, because its your fault.

 

the guy isnt local to Pennsylvania, but the weather does drop below freezing where he is at. (I dont wanna drop his name cause I dont want to defame him at all i still think he is a reputible guy)
I got the car this summer, ran perfectly, just scusk a lto that something so stupid cost me a great engine.
thanks for the imput, I guess I shoudl just bite the bullet, and no go after him to help pay for this

 

He isnt a dealer, he basicall build cars up to order for people, mostly sells part from his website

he is located in north carolina if that matters

 

both of your fault, you should always go over everything after buying a car whether that means doing it yourself or paying someone to do it. there is nothing wrong with using water if the weather for the area permits, it has nothing to do with being cheap it has to do with cooling system performance.

 

There is everything wrong with running straight water.
What lubricates the water pump?
What prevents rust, water scale, deposits, and corrosion?
What prevents the boil-overs , freezing, localized hotspots, and vapor?

 

its your own fault. what do you think happens to water when it freezes?



antifreeze didnt get its name simply because of its pretty green color


sorry to hear about it, but its a lesson learned.

 

It's your fault for buying used cars with no knowledge of how to work on em...

Karack, coolant is absolutely needed to properly cool the engine. It raises the boiling point by 10-20+ degrees in addition to lowering the freezing point. It also lubricates the water pump, is a corrosion inhibitor, etc. Only run your car with straight water if it's an emergency!

Now lemme give you a quick lesson about fault in civil lawsuits: He can't PROVE you also knew there was only water in there but you can PROVE he gave you a car with only water in it. As long as he didn't tell you to change the fluids and you didn't OR sell you the car for parts, he should be found liable if you bring a civil suit against him. The nice thing about the laws down here is they allow for quick collection of judgements through repossesion of non-payer's property!

But before any of that happens you should talk to him and ask for him to help you. If he's a good ole southern boy he prolly won't but you still need to tell him what's going on and what you expect of him without using threats. Good luck ~rich

p.s., don't incrimimate yourself by saying more than you have to!

 

I say its your fault 100%

He did sell you the car with it not having coolant, but you said you did check it and did know that it wasn't in there. So how is it his fault? He sold it that way and you should had him take care of it or spent the few bucks to put some in.

Wow.

 

You stated that you knew water was in the Radiator durring time of delievery... I am assuming this is because he told you,. You said it drove great all summer, so you had time to change the fluids and you knew about it... So knowing those 2 things, I don't see how the fault can be blamed on the guy who sold you the motor. Because you were aware of the water, and you have been driving it before it became winter time.

The only thing that will put him in fault in my opinion is if he didn't tell you he had only water in the radiator. Even then, you living in a state that gets that cold should have been prepared, rx-7s are no different than any car in this aspect. They all need Radiator fluid to prevent freezing.

Dane

 

Now you can enjoy the labor of love known as rebulding the engine!

 

He said where the area permits, such as here in the SF Bay area, California I can run straight water all day long if I wanted to. I did it a couple times in other cars when I knew it was not going to be in there but for a couple days.. But you don't see freezing temps and if your cooling system has no leaks and works PROPERLY you don't need those extra 10 or 20 degrees of cooling.

As he said it of course does not help the performance of the cooling system and is not smart. If your area does not have those freezing temps or insane high ambient temps in the summer then you would more then likely be fine.

I use coolant and 1 bottle of water wetter in all of my cars with that being said. It works better haha.

Unfortunately for the poster this is not the case.

 

quite a few racers use water wetter and water only in their engines, granted the engines are not used daily and cooling systems drained often, there is a lot of misconceptions out there about coolant. water pumps also can survive without lubrication for extended periods. water can cool better than a proper mix of coolant/water when used correctly but as i said it is not for use in daily driven cars but most sevens are not daily drivers anymore due to their poor fuel mileage.

 

and general unreliability.

 

only ones in lack of maintenance, i drove my car over 100 miles a day for about a year with little maintenance needed and no issues whatsoever, the only issue i had came about once i started pushing the limits of the motor and intake/fuel system it had.

 

Regardless of his conditional, I still disagree about running a vehicle without coolant for periods of time no matter where you are in the world. Even you run an an additive in addition to the anti-freeze to aid cooling.

Advocating straight water is the wrong advice to give anyone who's interested in keeping their car running well over a long period of time. ~rich

 

and people working on cars should know the possible kickbacks of doing anything that is not in the service manual, i figured this would be common knowledge but anyways.....