MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Who here has used a Camden supercharged on a fuel-injected 13b? How did it turn out? do you have any videos?

I really like the idea of the Camden kit... just wondering what some guys who've had actual experience with that particular kit say.

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Theres quite a bit of info around here, but mainly lean more towards turbo instead.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

My friend has the Camden on carb and fuel injection. I can tell you that he has a lot less problems with the fuel injection and that its haltech controlled. Though if you have any specific Q's you will have to ask.

Evil Aviator

RX7FROMCAL and snub disphenoid

Not good.

unW7WZ

Price-wise, if you're spending money on a haltech, maybe you should consider a turbo. Not knocking the SC at all; in fact I have seen many threads addressing SC's. Just saying it might be more cost effective to consider a turbo.

blwn rtr 89'

iTrader: (5)

not knocking on sc's, but i used 2 have one, and when your 12.5 1/4 or lower, the instant torque begins 2 not be as cool, turbo cars are way easier 2 hook up(not bogging down is the trick), and cost effective wise, you will always get more power on the cheap with the turbo+rx7 combo. unless of corse ur bloodline developes whipple protoytpes.

look at it this way, if the 13b wanted 2 be super charged, it wouldda had it as a factory option.

if u really want s/c, make on of americas first twin charged 13b's, make it work, and work fast, post pics, dyno, slips, get your *** kissed

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Heh, the Haltech was probably 3-4 years after the SC.

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Farberio, who is your friend? is he on here?

Houstonderk, I am not interested in turbocharging my 6-port engine. if I wanted to go turbo, I'd make it easy on myself and buy a TurboII, and save myself a significant amount of money and headache.

Blownrtr89, I appreciate your input, but an not aiming for a 12 second quarter mile. My car shoulud run 16 right now (best case scenario, not accounting for driver error), and I'm not looking to shave significant timeoff my 1/4 mile, , so much as to make an enjoyable, relatively original, and faster than stock rx7. This would, assuming I ever actually DO it, be a first project of this magnitude for me, so unfortunately twin-charging would be quite out of the question for now. However, if the supercharging project is successful, twincharging WOULD be a hell of an interesting project. oh god... you're giving me ideas

EvilAviator, thanks for the names.
When you say "not good", can you elaborate? I am going for a little more speed without much decreased reliability. (for now. will have another car to use as a daily driver in not too long) Did they have reliability issues? If so, were they fuel-injected, or hasd they switched to a carb setup? Did they destroy strong engines? or did they just fall victim to the typical "oh, damn, it's not as fast as I imagined" situation that most supercharged 7 owners end up in? If that's the problem, it's a non-issue for me; I'm not going for BIG power; just a slightly more spirited car.

Thanks to all of you who are providing me with information, instead of giving me the "if Mazda thought it should be supercharged, they would've supercharged it" arguments. If I wanted to turbocharge it, I'd turbo it I just want to take my n/a that I've almost fully restored (it was a shitbox when I bought it), and turn it into something fast, cool, and original.

Evil Aviator

Pretty much all of the above. I think it is better for you to read their own account. Go to the Advanced Search page and enter one of their names in the User Name box, type Camden in the Key Word box, then click on the Search Now button.

bluemunkey1820

i have one but not running yet go turbo iv dropped mad money into it i only did it as it was on the car when i got it

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Lee, and no he is not. I do know that he is running on a Turbo block with 8.0 rotors? We are estimating 220ish, though he should get it tuned very soon.

I can get you more info when I talk to him next.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Codeblue made 212 rwhp on a 7 inch camden at 12 psi on a 13bt. on the exact same engine he made 320 rwhp with a turbo at 10 psi.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Lees Motor
13bt block running S4 turbo rotors
5 in camden SC at 7lbs of boost
Estimating 220HP at the Wheels.
Haltech E6X

TB came from: http://www.auto-nomics.com/
Get everything at once, though his research says their fuel lines can leak so don't get those.

Issues:
1) Tunning (Probably just him, he is getting it tuned somewhere sometime)
2) TB sticks a bit over idle.

Recommendations:
1) Run stock N/A injectors
2) Use 7in camden

RotaMan99

To me, performance per dollar with the camden SC is not worth it.

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Thank you all for your responses; you all are helping me arrive at a final decision while I continue to get cash together for a project.

Evil Aviator, I'm sure you know this, but you're extraordinarily helpful. I've been spending the past couple days looking at Snub Disiphenoid's history with the Camden. The information you've given me will lead me to either avoid the Camden, or will at least make me acutely aware of the potential problems that I will face if I decide to go that route in the end.

Please, know that I'm not going for big power; I would be thrilled to make 200rwhp with a supercharger, exhaust, intake, and engine management system. However, I wouldn't necessarily expect to make even that much.

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Also, maybe this is a bad way to be making my decision, but in response to RotaMan99, or anyone else who talks "performance per dollar", while it's a $2500 kit, I've seen a couple of them go for around $1000 lightly used, or purchased but given up on before seeing any actual use. These seem to be sold by guys who either installed them on cars with high-mileage engines and blew them, or saw the results and were disappointed with their $2500 investment and wanted to get whatever they could out of them, for a turbo project.

This may just show my Naivety, but roots-type superchargers seem like an easy means of forced induction, while turbos require intercooling, BOVs, and a TON of piping and whatnot. While I think I could take a stock TII and make a bit more power with it, the idea of turboing an n/a scares me.

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

Slightly naive, yes, but not completely. With a kit it is an easy way of going FI, but I would be hesitant to run any FI without some kind of intercooling. You should look into a methanol/alcohol injection kit to help keep temps down. Rotaries dont take well to pre-ignition, and hot air is exactly what you get out of any FI without intercooling. Particularly a roots blower. With methanol injection you can significantly reduce intake temps, and reduce the load on the stock fuel system.


BC

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Care to briefly explain methanol injection? How does it work? pricing? etc

It sounds like it would not be a wise choice for a daily driver, just as a wild guess. That's why I'm shooting for such a low HP number- my car will be driven on at least a weekly basis , mostly on the freeway, for its life.

Edit: Also, I thought it was not possible (or at least not feasible) to intercool the Camden roots blower. Am I mistaken on this point?

Evil Aviator

I'm glad that you have a good attitude. Most people get upset when they are told how to look up information rather than being spoon fed. As you can see, researching on your own gave you far more insight than any summary that I could have written.

Turbos do not require intercooling, BOVs, and a TON of piping. People just add that stuff to make more power. Roots blowers also use a bypass valve (similar to a BOV), and they actually heat up the air more than turbos do for a given level of boost.

The cheapest and easiest way to transition to forced induction is to simply sell your NA car and buy a TII.

It is a type of ADI (Antidetonant Injection), which the internet non-engineers call AI (Auxiliary Injection). Water, or a mix of water and alcohol, is also common. Traditional ADI is primarily water, with alcohol added more to prevent freezing than to add power, and a bit of water-soluble oil is added for lubrication and corrosion resistance. You can read much more here:
http://www.alkycontrol.com/
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/
http://www.snowperformance.net/
http://www.coolingmist.com/categories.aspx

Correct. However, it's the latest fad on the RX-7 forums due to a few members re-inventing the wheel, er, I mean trailblazing original ideas.

It is possible, but difficult. Roots type superchargers are called "blowers" because they do not compress the air, but rather they move it. The air is actually compressed in the intake manifold as it backs up against the restriction. Therefore, the intake manifold itself needs to be turned into an intercooler by adding cooling fins and/or a water jacket. An intercooler can be added, but it needs to replace a lot of the manifold because increasing the volume or piping distance kills performance. This is sometimes called an "after-cooler".

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Care to explain more about cooling fins/water jackets? We're talking about stuff that is as of yet above my head

Evil Aviator

Cooling fins dissipate heat by dramatically increasing the surface area. Examples:

Cooling fins on a piston engine cylinder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-cooled_engine

Cooling fins on electronic heat sinks:
http://www.conradheatsinks.com/welcome.htm

Since there isn't a lot of airflow under the hood to wick away the heat from plain cooling fins, most cars have a water jacket around the fins. The inside of the water jacket is fed with coolant and pumped through a heat exchanger to form what is called an air-liquid intercooler, or aka an aftercooler. Yes, this is quite complicated when compared to the more common air-air intercoolers. Note the water jacket manifolds in the pictures:
http://www.superchargersonline.com/p...rcoolers_water

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

What he is getting at is that with a roots blower you basically have to put a radiator under the blower to absorb heat from the discharge air. The heat exchanger (radiator under the blower) has water running through it that absorbs the heat from the intake charge and moves it to a radiator mounted in front of the car to be cooled back down.


methanol injection uses methanol (a form of alcohol) or water/alcohol and sprays it in a fine mist into the discharged air from the blower. The methanol evaporates, and in the process cools the intake charge down, significantly. It operates on the same priniciple as sweating does. The added benefit of running methanol as opposed to straight water is that methanol burns. The methanol can be used to help offset the amount of gasoline that you need to flow in order to keep a safe air/fuel ratio. It doesnt contain the same about of energy as gasoline does, so you have to inject a larger amount of methanol to replace a given amount of gasoline to get the same power.


Some systems, like http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/ for the miata, use a similar setup to act as an intercooler, but use a 5th injector to inject gasoline into the airstream after the blower to cool down the intake charge. Same priniciple as methanol injection. In this case its refered to as E-cool. Its not as effeicient as intercooling, or methanol injection (so I have been told), but works to a degree. it depends on what power levels you are aspiring for.

If you want to get some safety and power out of a camden kit methanol injection is probably the best way to go about it. Intercooling it would require a custom manifold and intercooler to be developed which would put the Camden kit even further out of the cost effective realm. I dont believe anyone offers a smaller snout pulley, or larger crank pulley, for the camden kit, so getting more power out of it would require either a custom made pulley or some kind of ability to modify timing to take advantage of the extra airflow/cooler (more dense) charge.


BC

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, it seems like you're getting into stuff that costs much more than I want to put into it.
I think I'd be satisfied with a Camden kit if I can still find one for a relatively low price, lightly used. If I can't, though, I'll just save my money.

The last one I saw go for $800 shipped would be cost-effective. My s4 can't make more than 120whp stock, and to make 180whp, 60 whp more, for $800 would ABSOLUTELY satisfy me. (that's $13 per HP, if I'm not mistaken )I'd go above $800; not limiting myself just yet.

Once I got to that 180whp, though, I'd be pretty well satisfied with the car, and would probably call the project finished except for removing weight. I don't really care to run large amounts of boost; running efficiently at low boost and making decent power would be satisfactory for me.

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

well, when it gets boring and you want to go higher dont just scrap the blower. Meth injection and a megasquirt will make quite a bit more power out of that setup.


BC

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

ok, thanks, BC