Catatonik

Just picked up an 87 TII. I believe the motor is a JDM S4. Previous owner is unsure but thinks it is street ported. I did the basic tune up on it, plugs, wires, oil, filter, brakes, lights, battery. Has a nice custom downpipe to HFC and very deep sounding dual grapefruit launcher mufflers. It runs well, but here's where things go wrong...

It has a boost cut bypass on it, and NO boost gauge. Stock gauge is disconnected. No Boost controller, or any other tuning devices on it other than a cheap A/F meter and an Apexi Turbo Timer (With volt/afr/time disply). Also has a turbo XS BOV and aluminum rad with E-Fan. The A/C and air pump were removed, but the ACV is still on the manfold and capped off. I'm unsure of what else has been done, and THINK it may have an S5 turbo on it, but not too sure.

Car itself only has 150,000 kilometers on it and body is spotless clean.

Where do I start with this bad boy?

My budget is only about $1500.

francogt1

iTrader: (2)

pictures will get you a long way here my friend. =]

p.s i dont get what you want to know...

Catatonik

I'll post pics as soon as I can. What all should I post pics of?

I'm pretty new to turbo cars and tuning. I'd just like to know what basic item I'll need to put together a reliable DD/Autocross car. Where can I get power wise with a stock turbo and intercooler, ect. My main goal is reliability, my secondary goal is fun, and maybe 250-260whp.

I've searched through the archives and havent found a solid answer to any basic questions.

-Stock turbo, max boost
-How much of a diff does an electronic Boost controller make over manual
-What gauges would be considered essential
-At what point is the stock intercooler too small
-When should the stock ECU be abandoned for stand alone

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

stock turbo = 12 psi MAX

EBC is better but certainly not necessary

Boost and aftermrket coolant temp would be nice, oil pressure gauge should work as well.

stock TMIC = 12 psi

The stock ECU is limited in it's abilities once you go past stock boost levels, even with a cheapo FCD your still at risk for engine damage if your not safe. Something like the Rtek 2.1 is much cheaper than a full standalone but gives you the essential ability to log AFR's and adjust fuel and timing maps.




You should start by redoing the fuel pulsation dampener and the oil cooler lines. Make sure your brakes are good and basically start with safety. Then maybe look for power mods, even when doing power your better to play it safe and do reliable mods unless you want another rebuild in your future.

All this is is the forums.

Good luck.

EDIT: sorry I see you already did the brakes.

Basically if it's in good shape and your running a fuel cut defender (boost cut bypass) you should keep it to 8-9 psi with stock turbo, TMIC, injectors and ECU. A simple manual boost controller will help to raise boost levels and is much cheaper than EBC's.

The biggest concern is running lean when the boost spikes, as it will unless the wastegate is ported. You could try sticking 720's in the secondaries and see what happens. Your turbo timer is probably displaying the 02 sensor's narrow band and showing it as AFR, you shoould get a true wideband O2 monitor for tuning.

I would suggest getting the Rtek7 2.1 ECU from digital tuning, it's like $400 and it's freaking awesome.

Then get some 720CC injectors and a new fuel pump.

Are you running the dual belt alt pulley? And the ACV can be blocked off, if you want you could remove all emissions.

Maybe a BNR Stage 1 turbo upgrade??

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

A good cheap wideband monitor is the NGK A/Fx, like $250 and it's true wideband. The Rtek 2.1 allow you to log the AFR's, as well as boost, rpms, timing split, etc..., and then make corrections to your fuel maps to keep the AFR's under 12 to 1 or so depending on your goals.

For nice reliable DD/autocross you should be thinking moderate build, not super race car. So some nice KYB AGX shocks and struts and some Tanabe GF210's or Racing Beat lowering springs would be good. Delete the rear steer and get new sway bars and end links, new bushings and etc...

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

bigger fuel pump= $100 ebay
Rtek 1.7= $100?? (chipped ECU)
wideband and boost guage =$300
720 CC injectors= (buy used on here and have them cleaned)= $100
SAFC=(again, buy used on here) =$100-150?
FMIC= (ebay piping and Ebay core)=$400-500??
that will get you a nice running machine without messing with timing since you said you were new with tuning. a SAFC is a piggyback but will work.

this will allow you to run 12LBS of boost and have some fun autoXing

Catatonik

Do these R-tek chips come pre-programmed? I'm fine with electrical, but the tuning part completely eludes me. Is the SAFC the same thing, or do I need both?

If i did the injectors, fuel pump and fpr, would I be able to run 10-12psi? And roughly what kinda power would that be putting down? I dont really plan to go much further than maxing out the stock turbo. I have access to a millwright shop, so porting the wastegate is POSSIBLE. What does a wideband offer over an A/F meter that I NEED?

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Yes the Rteks are preloaded with stock fuel and timing maps, only the 2.1 allows you manually adjust them, if needed. The 1.7 might be all you need though, give it a look.

Digital Tuning

Well with 720's and a 255lph pump rewired you should be able to run somewhere around 10 psi safely, but thats what the wideband is for. It offers you an accurate measure of the air/fuel ratio so you can avoid going lean and popping your motor. A narrowband O2 sensor is generally not acceptable for tuning. Just keep in mind that the stock turbo and intercooler will eventually start getting really hot running around 12psi, you should probably stay around 10 without a FMIC.

All my opinion, I'd suggest reading around to see what others have done in the past. I have a pretty extensive rebuild thread around for my '87 TII and lots of others have done this all before.

Post some pics of the car man.

TurbosMakeMeSmile

Haltech e6x or the e8 FTW.........if ya have the money $$$$ E8 is the only stand alone that comes with a plug and play for the s4 from haltech.....last i checked

arghx

iTrader: (3)

For your budget and needs, you could get away with 720 secondarys and Rtek 1.7 . I bet if you just installed both of those with a wideband, you will find the AFR's are safe--maybe not a perfect tune for power, but safe enough, especially given the improved timing map in the 1.7. but REWIRE THE FUEL PUMP please.

Read the Rtek website, the 1.7 retards more timing under boost than a stock ECU, but it has no adjustability built into it. You would need an SAFC. The 2.1 allows you to make corrections to the stock fuel and timing map s within the ECU, rather than using a piggyback SAFC to "trick" it. The 2.1 also gives you a little more control over some driveability stuff like idle mix and startup fuel curve.

Catatonik

Any major benefit to using the Rtek 1.8 over the 1.7? Or would a 1.7 with fuel pump, FPR, 720 secondaries, and FMIC support 10-12psi?

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

the 1.8 runs 4 x 720's whereas the 1.7 runs 2 x 550 and 2 x 720's neither has any tune-ability beyond their base maps.

IMO you can run 10 psi safely on the 1.7 (Ive seen guys running 10 psi on the stock injectors) and use the money you would have spent on another set of 720's toward getting a wideband and boost gauge. If you are going to reuse your stock primaries however, I would suggest you get them cleaned and flow tested.

If you go front mount, the limiting factor becomes the stock turbo, which as stated previously is exhausted at 12 psi. Had a friend make damn near 300 hp on the stocker running 17+ psi......for about a month .....now he's N/A.

With a good tune you can prolly get around 250 whp on the stock turbo though.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a good plan to me.

veedubbed

For 1500, I would do a full rebuild on it, and spend the rest on a fuel pump and maybe an Rtek.

Rebuild it now, and you won't have to worry about the motor for a loooooooong time.

Catatonik

The motor only has 50k km on it. its a brand new JDM s4.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Yeah don't worry about rebuilding the engine right now, I would start sourcing parts. You know even with the Rtek and injectors you could probably afford a slightly used BNR Stage 1 or even a new one, keeping at 10 psi you'll still be safe with the stock TMIC but will be much easier to produce 250hp than the stock turbo.

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

i said the SAFC because you will be able to fine tune it......also, find a wideband thats capable of wide and narrow readings....IE: innovate's is capable of it.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...ae65c1210e1d79

shop around, you can find it cheaper. thats what i use. great setup!! the reason you want both is so you can monitor your ratio AND still have closed loop (better fuel mileage) just by connecting 1 wire into the stock ECU. best of both worlds without having to weld another bung into your downpipe.

Catatonik

I'll be getting pics up in the next few days hopefully. Things have been hectic lately. I really appreciate everyones advice. Thx

Catatonik

Got some pics finally.

I dont know if this helps identify anything, but here goes.