RPeck....

If you're theory of the 30 second idle were correct (hypothesis would be a better term) we'd have a hell of a lot of dead engines, i.e. everyone who remote starts there car daily, and let's it run 10-15 minutes...

I warm mine up for 7.5 minutes EVERY morning (well, in the winter)... You think I'm boiling the oil? Drop me some of your credentials beyond "because I said so"

I've idled my GTP for 20 minutes straight, in 3 minutes I reached operating temp on my oil, it stayed within 2 degrees of it the ENTIRE time. That's running through a stock oil cooler, with fans set to run when engine temp is >180F, which it never reaches unless outside temps are 90+, read: they never turned on. Explain to me where I'm damaging the motor, other then the wear of a continuous RPM cycle (which would also occur on a prolonged freeway drive).

I'm still waiting to here a relevant argument to damage occuring from idling, that isn't related to keeping the motor at a single RPM.

Arguing on the internet is like masturbating without the payoff-

edit: Oh, and you think it's a -GOOD- idea to run around on your motor before it reaches operating temperatures? (hint: 30-45 seconds is not going to hit operating temps, especially if you're starting at 10F).

 

I can attest to that fact...

Rpeck your arguments are merely sophisms, scathcarts are built on actual evidence...I'm going to have to side with scathcart.

Also, about the whole idling argument...I've idled my car for around 30min (bleeding the coolant system)...A COUPLE OF TIMES...no ill side effects.

So before you spew, take a breathe...check your facts or know your s#!&.

 

k im thinking it was a freyed line to start with. it has a few weak points from what looks to be knife marks on it. like someone was trying to cut it off, and where it is gashed looks to be one of these marks was thin enough that it blew there. i think in the condition that both lines are in, one would have blown pretty soon anyways. i also think that it was just coincodence that it blew up in my garage, well more like murphys law. since i just cleaned the whole place up minutes before undertaking this seemingly simple project. thank you rpeck for wanting to get me better bearings, im not sure if i need them just yet. the battery was a bit weak, and it was cold out. so im going to get a better battery on it tomorrow. im kinda glad that the line blew at my house and not on the track. im also glad that i can see the sorry state that this hose is in. i will let you guys know how it works out tomorrow.

 

Yeah, you got really lucky... I had a tranny cooler line blow once while I was warming up one of my other cars one morning.... I thank god it happened in park, in my driveway, and not at 80 mph on the interstate, that'd of been a 3000 dollar mistake!

 

If the oil system isnt pressurized then what the hell is this doing in our engines????????

on the link look for "Pressure Regulators" Part Number:14-2300-N3A1,11810 and 11812
http://mazdatrix.com/b7.htm

The oil cooler lines do have pressure. Isnt that why most people buy the Braided Stainless Steel Oil Cooler Hose Sets to replace stock as an upgrade?
http://mazdatrix.com/b6.htm

 

dude, I'll say it again...there's no atmospheric pressure. You know what that means, right?

 

i don't, please explain.

 

yes, no atmospheric, but there is still pressure...

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...heric+pressure


xfeast... Yes...to that, I agree.

 

Wow, there's a ton of crap in this thread!

The crux of Rpeck's arguements is that the oil cooling system can't handle idling for extended periods of time.

The support this, there are a lot of bad assumptions being made. Here are some things that are being missed

1) The oil and water cooling systems are not thermally seperate. They both cool the same engine.
2) The oil system IS pressureized. The oil doesn't care whether this is the result of a higher "atmoshperic" pressure or a pump, it's under pressure either way. The oil molecules are just bumping into other oil molecules, not sneaking around looking for pressure caps.
3) Area is not the only thing that matters in terms of oil cooler vs. water cooler. The rate of heat transfer is also affected by the temperature differential. The oil system can operate at a higher temperature than the water system, which means that it can dissipate more heat per unit time than a similar water system with an equally sized radiator.
4) Hoses fail, especially when >10 years old. One instance of failure is conclusive proof of nothing.
5) The fan does cool the oil system as well as the water system.

 

6) When an oil line does burst, it is very messy.
7) The dealership charges too much for a new line.
8) If anyone has a line they would like to sell me, please speak up.

 

Steven which line was it again? I might have a spare.

After reding most of this I'm confused.

But here's somethings I always wondered about.

If the system is pressurized then how come when the pan gaskette gets old and starts to leak, it doesn't just spray oil everywhere? Yes I read steven's original post, But I would also assume that the fan would spray it all over the place too.

When my oil cooler line blew it didn't spray, it just leaked like crazy.

Another thing is that if you had an oil cooler line problem that was causing the car to overheat, wouldn't the oil....Oh wait, could an oil cooler line about to rupture cause overheating?...anyway, if the oil wasn't circulating through the cooler at spec, it seems like it could boil, and thus would pressurize the system and then it would spray?

I always thought the OMP was controlled by rmps because there's a gear that goes right off inside the front cover that is turned by the eccentric shaft.

And one last thing about pressurization instead of pumped....What about the regulator in the front cover that controls oil flow according to temperature? Why would you have this component in a sytem completely reliant upon pressure?

Okay now I think I'm even more confused.

 

just your 20cents? you said .2- two cents = .02

 

yeah thats what it did. it must have been leaking out of the tube and getting thrown by the fan. its an '86 N/A, so if you have one that would be cool.

 

Yes but there are two,

which one was it?

The one that goes to the front cover or the one that goes to the rear housing?

 

This doesn't tell me anything specific about how the system behaves with regards to where the pressure 'is'...



SS for line durability, not containment. Down the driver's side of the rad is a thin steel angle. The oil cooler lines have been rubbing against this angle, wearing on it, since the day the car left the factory. This angle wore a hole in my upper line this past fall and stranded me a 20 minute driver from home at 3am on the morning of a holiday Monday. Before installing the replacement lines that I had fabbed (they weren't SS,) I pounded that angle flat - I'll be damned if I'll let that bite me in the *** again.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is where stevensimon had his line blow.



RPeck - I apologize. After my cooler line blowout (and it was an explosion - oil all over both rads and the surrounding structures) and a few brief convos with my mechanic, plus the presence of the oil pressure gauge, I took that to mean that the system is pressurized.

But I wasn't thinking.

As pointed out, if it was pressurized, then removing the oil filler cap with the motor running would result in one hell of a mess. But that doesn't happen, does it?

The oil pump fires the oil from the motor to the cooler rad and back again at up to 80psi (determined by rpm.) The gauge reports on only that leg of the oil's journey.

(I'm posting this so I can show what swayed me.)

Have you guys ever seen a pumper truck (fire fighters) when they're doing an exercise? The local outfit used to do it next to my parents' house. They create a small reservoir, and the truck's pump draws from it. In this case, they fired it off across high school parking lot, at whatever psi, while another truck made water runs to the town pond to keep that reservoir full.
They could had just as easily fired the water back into the reservoir, but didn't.

I think it's the same deal with our oil pumps. Oil sits at ambient pressure in the pan, the pump draws from that and fires it through the lines, and then when the oil reaches the end of that line it sprays back into the pan.

To put it another way, the 80psi doesn't come from the entire system being pressurized, but from the pump trying to shove the oil through the oil cooler lines. Once the oil leaves the lines, it's not under pressure anymore.


How'm I doing?

 

You're doing allright but you need to go back to why pressurization was brought up in the first place:
increased boiling point

The oil only needs to be pressurized when it's "hot". The oil that isn't pressurized has already gone through the oil cooler.

This is why all this talk about lack of pressurization is hogwash. Where it matters, it's pressurized.


Does removing your coolant reservoir cap release pressure in your cooling system?
No.
Does that mean the system isn't pressurized?
No.

Does removing your gas cap release the pressure in your fuel system?
No.
Does that mean the system isn't pressurized?
No.

 

That's exactly why I didn't think the system was pressurized. If you had a leak in the pan gaskette it'd spray.

But I think the crux of the argument seems to stem from a confusion about what drives or is responsible for delivering the oil around the system.

If it was driven by pressure, then I would gander that there'd be something in the oil pan that pushed the oil up through the oil cooler and then oil injectorlines etc etc. Like an air jet of somekind.

But since its pumped by suction, then it relieves oil from the pan this way.

And also that the regulator in the cover wouldn't make any sense to have it open according to temperature because, I guess, that you could have situations where the pressure would be irrespective of temperature. Then this temperature based component wouldn't open correctly. Instead you'd need some other type of component to variably open up when certian amounts pressure build up.


But that's my theory.

These motors pressurize my mind sometimes.

 

guess what guys. its all better. had to go buy mondo wrenches to swap em out 21,23, and a 25 mm wrench. runs like a champ. thanks for all the help and the entertaining debate on oil pressure.

 

The oil pan has some pressure due to the heat of gases, but it on its own is not a pressurized system. You have an oil pump which siphons from the oil pan and makes the oil running through the engine pressurized. If there was no pressure in the oil system anywhere, you wouldn't have an oil pressure gauge. If the oil pan were pressurized, your dipstick would shoot out because the amount of pressure in the oil system is huge compared to the amount it takes to pull the dipstick out. I assume that the pressure of the oil system just comes from pushing oil through smaller openings like out body does to get blood through capillaries (someone tell me if I’m wrong). As the engine goes faster, the pump pumps more and makes more oil pressure. The system will be under pressure throughout the engine and then it gets to the oil cooler where I would assume pressure decreases due to an increase in volume which should lower the temperature as well. If it does not lose pressure at the oil cooler due to its placement, it’s just doing it at the oil pan. It will then enter the oil pan and be recycled.

How the hell would there be not atmospheric pressure? Atmospheric pressure is the weight of the atmosphere. It's not going to be exactly the same pressure as it is outside necessarily but if you put oil in your car, you leave the cap off and put oil in. Then you cap it. It is still at the pressure the atmosphere was when you had it open. So if it's a low pressure day when you put your oil in, your oil might be slightly lower in pressure than a high pressure one but we're talking minimal differences. Just because you seal a system off from the atmosphere like that, it doesn't mean that it's completely exempt from the pressure of the atmosphere all of the sudden.

 

its looking like the longest thread i have ever kept going just flatlined. lol. thanks again for evryones help. and remember kids keep on truckin

 

you trying to keep us from debating? :-P

 

it was intresting to learn about the oiling system. i learned so much in these 4 pages, but it seems there is no more to learn about the cooling aspect of things. dont want to keep fueling the flames but i do learn with debates.

 

Start a new thread about how cooling system dosent cool anything but mazda's ego...

 

lol. only when something on it major fails again.