matts86fc3s

alright my car was about an inch out of time. so i timed it. 5* advance leading coil (yellow mark) and should be 20* advance on trailing coil (red mark). wierd thing is it ran pretty good being that far out of time. and when i checked timing when it was out of time, both leading and trailing marks flashed good and consistantly although they were about an inch to the left side of the mark. anyway i put the jumper wire in the green connecter and adjusted timing. leading mark is dead on at 5* advance couldnt get any closer than what i got. so then i check trailing mark and the trailing wire #1 is jumping all over the place, then i try trailing wire #2 and the mark is nowhere to be seen??? what the hell? and a few times when i tried trailing #2 the light wouldnt light up... meaning it was recieving no spark energy. but whats wierd is it was running ok when it was out of time, well it was running decent, not the greatest tho. and im pretty sure the trailing coil was firing when it was out of time. is that normal? i also set tps sensor too to see if that would help. same results. leading timing mark is dead straight on, and #1 trailing is kinda jumping all over the place and #2 traling wire is nowhere to be seen (probly on bottom of pulley as light flashes)... oh yeah, and it runs like ***. sounds like a 4 cylender that is running on only cylinder #1 and cylinder #4... kinda lopey when i give it gas in gear. in nuetral its fine and revvs up normally, only when in gear does it drive like crap. sorry for long post but what is going on????

RETed

Technically, it's not advanced.
The specs are 5-degrees *ATDC* and 20-degrees *ATDC*.
So technically, it fires after TDC.


-Ted

matts86fc3s

well leading is dead on at 5-degreees, but trailing is going nuts...

matts86fc3s

anyone?.... only mods i have are emissions removal, TB mod, and AFM mod (s5 afm wired up to my s4).

HAILERS

If the Trail coils don't fire..............your tach will not move.

Never look at T2 with a timing light. It's meaningless.

The yellow or first mark is 5*ATDC. NOT BTDC.

The engine must be fully heated up prior to setting the timing. If you look at the page called DEVICES in the series five manual you'll see it says something about the timing being retarded at startup/cold.

Maybe the water thermo sensor is kaput? Check it out per fsm.

EDIT: Actually it says that when cranking COLD the lead and trail are 5* BTDC and when idling cold they both are RETARDED.

matts86fc3s

hmmm maybe my waterthermo is bad. leading stays at 5* at top dead center regardless of temp. before setting timing i ran car for about 10 mins, dont know if it was warm or not i just had to let it run that long to get it to hold idle, then timed it. it was dead on. drove it around and it drove like crap, sounded like it was bad out of timing, came back and temp was about a quarter way up, checked timing again and it was dead on 5* at top dead center. car does smell like runs really really rich, but no black smoke, then agian i have no cat and no emissions. ill check water thermo... is that the one on the bottom of the radiator or the one on the back of the waterneck by alternator?

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

check your spark plugs and have your fuel injectors cleaned

RETed

I dunno what "trailing is going nuts" means...

Most inductive timing guns cannot fire the FC ignition system consistently.
To help, I pull the boot off the coil or spark plug end to allow the coil to fire a lot harder - this helps get a steady signal to the timing gun.
Be careful to not pull the boot off too much, cause if the spark jumps to you...YEOW!


-Ted

matts86fc3s

fuel injectors and plugs are brand spanking new. its timed right, and dead on, and it revs good in neutral but in gear it runs bad... like it has a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge cam in it. (brumbrumbrumbrumbrum) not the usual (bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) while in gear. adjusted tps too before driving it.

wyallen

It sounds like you set the timing when the car wasn't at idle (aka the timing was correct, before you messed with it). The ECU treats idle differently. When the car goes to idle from some higher rpm you should see the timing mark shift clockwise (I can't remember, but something like 10 degrees). While watching the timing mark place your hand over the AFM intake and restrict the airflow until the timing moves counter clockwise and you hear a relay click (If you didn't remove it, that is). If your idle setting are messed up it may die soon afterwards. If it looks like that is the problem, move the timing back to where it was, then try to get the car to idle, then adjust the timing.

I wouldn't pay any attention to the trailing coil, but it should stabilize if you are at "idle", though it still wont appear to fire consistently.

HAILERS

Water thermo at the back of the water pump housing. Doing timing or setting the TPS the engine must be hot.

Put the timing light on the engine at idle. Then slowly press the pedal til the rpms go over 1100 rpm. When the rpm get to about 1100 rpm, DOES THE TIMING MARKS SHOW ADVANCE?

Are you REAL sure your trailing plug wires are on the right spot?? T1 on top, forward rotor? Had to ask.

Did you remove the initial set coupler after setting the timeing?

matts86fc3s

we held engine at about 800 rpm when i did the timing... im pretty sure the engine was warm by the time i started timing. yes, T1 goes to top spark plug on front rotor, and T2 goes to top spark plug on rear rotor. i did remove the initial set coupler after timing and TPS setting. drove it around and had to turn around and come back becuase it ran poorly when in gear. in neutral its fine. came back to the garage and put the timing light back on it, while ideling and temp gauge at about a quarter way up, leading time was dead on at 5* TDC, right now im taking out my water thermo and putting it in a pot of water with a thermometer and gradually heatin it up to see if its bad. if it is i have another motor i can take it off of. if my water thermo was bad could it cuase it to run poorly?

i do remember it fired consistanly with the gun (trailing that is) before i adjusted timing, but both timing marks were about a little more than an inch to the left side of the timing mark, i had no load on the engine, other than my amp wich turns on with cd player. but the engine did "pop" and "miss" a little bit so i know it was out of time, it did more the higher in rpms you climbed. one thing i did change: i put an s5 AFM on my 86'... same wires you just loop the fuel cut wires together. a few minutes ago i put my s4 AFM back on. ill start it back up after i check the water thermo.

hope that helps, i know its long but bare with me... thanks

matts86fc3s

just talked to someone on nopistons.com, said to set the leading timeing at 0 (zero) degrees advance?? that doesnt sound right,

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

whats your compression?

matts86fc3s

its a rebuilt motor. even if the compression is bad thats not what im worried about cuase it ran ok with the timing off, just poped and missed a little bit, not much

matts86fc3s

so do i need to set the timing light at zero then? instead of setting the timing light to 5 degrees advance?? everyone keeps telling me on nopistons.com that i need to set the timing light to zero? but why? fsm says timing is 5* advance for leading coil?

Rx7Ridah

iTrader: (8)

how long ago was it rebuilt? it could be that the gear on the crank angle sensor could be 1 tooth off. its kinda difficult to install with the oil fill pipe still bolted on. i would double check that. it is soooo easy to move it just a little bit.

matts86fc3s

i pulled the crank angle sensor out. put leading timing mark at top dead center, lined up dot on gear on crank sensor with the mark. put it back in now i just want to get it timed and all i want to know is to time it do i have to set the timing gun/light to zero degrees. i know the leading should be 5* advance at top dead center. but everyone on nopistons forum keeps telling me i need to set the timing gun/light to zero degrees... is this true thats all im asking please dont respond unless you are giving me the answer, i need to get this car running so i can keep my job its my daily driver for now. thanks

RETed

Why do you keep insisting on calling it that!
That's WRONG.

It's 5-degrees *AFTER* TDC.

And stop ******* with the advance **** on the timing gun.
Leave it at "0".
We're not checking advance.
We're trying to check "TDC".

1) Leave timing gun on "0"
2) Shoot the pulley
3) Adjust leading mark (right mark) till it's sitting under the pin


-Ted